[mostroad]

I work at one of the top software companies, and this kind of quality is simply unacceptable for shipping software. I would expect it for a beta product, but I was not expecting to be a beta tester for the HR20.

The weekly software updates are similarly unprofessional. The lack of complete QA testing is really unbelievable. The regressions and new bugs are should easily be caught by adequate real-world and automated testing procedures.

When the bugs are fixed, and the software is of shipping-quality, it should be a nice piece of work, but this kind of development is really pathetic. Companies should not sell software until it is thoroughly tested and ready to ship.

 

[litzdog911]

DirecTV could use a few more good software engineers like you!

 

[wmccain]

I work at one of the top software companies, and this kind of quality is simply unacceptable for shipping software. I would expect it for a beta product, but I was not expecting to be a beta tester for the HR20.

You are quite correct, but ...

I spent 30 years as a software engineer, also for top-notch companies (e.g. IBM). True, we would never have shipped a product with this level of quality, and you are correct in characterizing it as a "Beta" - a fairly early Beta, in fact.

BUT in 30 years, the development teams that I worked with hardly ever shipped a product "on schedule". (The official schedules were usually overly optimistic, set by upper management, over the objections of the developers who "knew better". But the schedule slippages were hidden from the outside world, because products were not announced externally until much later than has become customary in recent years. In fact, products were typically not announced until QA certified them, around the end of Beta test.)

DirecTV was faced with a choice. The HR20 software was running late. WAY late. The hardware was already in the pipeline, the marketing and support were already geared up and ready to go ... so what to do? Ship it anyway, meeting external commitments and gaining thousands of unwitting (and annoyed) Beta-testers? Or hold it back, angering thousands of customers, suppliers, and installers?

I'm slanting the alternatives a bit ... the "ship anyway" plan has numerous perils that I have not mentioned, such as "damage to reputation". But clearly, that is the plan they decided upon.

There are some positives for us, here. Our feedback gets a lot more attention (and immediacy) than it would if the product were shipped in a more-or-less "completed" state (in other words, we have a better-than-usual chance to influence the software design decisions, even the "feature set"). And DirecTV found out that the demand for this product was significantly greater than anticipated - which has to be a positive, as it will affect their priorities and resources.

William C. McCain
Palo Alto, California

 

[skierbri10]

You are quite correct, but ...

I spent 30 years as a software engineer, also for top-notch companies (e.g. IBM). True, we would never have shipped a product with this level of quality, and you are correct in characterizing it as a "Beta" - a fairly early Beta, in fact.

BUT in 30 years, the development teams that I worked with hardly ever shipped a product "on schedule". (The official schedules were usually overly optimistic, set by upper management, over the objections of the developers who "knew better". But the schedule slippages were hidden from the outside world, because products were not announced externally until much later than has become customary in recent years. In fact, products were typically not announced until QA certified them, around the end of Beta test.)

DirecTV was faced with a choice. The HR20 software was running late. WAY late. The hardware was already in the pipeline, the marketing and support were already geared up and ready to go ... so what to do? Ship it anyway, meeting external commitments and gaining thousands of unwitting (and annoyed) Beta-testers? Or hold it back, angering thousands of customers, suppliers, and installers?

I'm slanting the alternatives a bit ... the "ship anyway" plan has numerous perils that I have not mentioned, such as "damage to reputation". But clearly, that is the plan they decided upon.

There are some positives for us, here. Our feedback gets a lot more attention (and immediacy) than it would if the product were shipped in a more-or-less "completed" state (in other words, we have a better-than-usual chance to influence the software design decisions, even the "feature set"). And DirecTV found out that the demand for this product was significantly greater than anticipated - which has to be a positive, as it will affect their priorities and resources.

William C. McCain
Palo Alto, California

That was an excellent assessment. KUDOS!!!

 

[cybrsurfer]

When you think of a computer, and entering the BIOS to disable a function or piece of hardware, you tend to get many errors or problems from disabling things in the BIOS.

I think perhaps if DirecTV enables OTA, all circuits on the motherboard will be working as designed and may resolve some issues. The unit is clearly designed to be completely enabled. Trying to keep part of the unit a sleep is certain to cause issues, most electronics are designed to be completely on.

Just a comparison thought. The HR20 is like a small computer. It has a OS, motherboard, and hard drive. So if you look at it like a computer, and you've disabled features or hidden them, then it's going to cause problems.

Perhaps it's just wishful thinking... who knows...

 

[MikeFL]

That was an excellent assessment. KUDOS!!!

I agree this is a good aseessment. Just look at the products that have been delayed this year and the rash of SH** these companies have taken from the press and consumers alike, not to mention the impact on stock value:

Airbus A380
Microsoft Vista
Sony Playstation 3

Also look at the products that were released too early and the way the press and / or consumers has slammed them:

Toshiba HD A1
Samsung Blu-Ray player
DirecTV HR20

To be honest I think companies are in a loose / loose situation from a PR perspective; release on time and be damned or release late and be damned.

I for one am happy that they released early and I can live with the problems of being an early adopter since unlike some other companies DirecTV is at least trying to resolve the problems. Compare that to when you have a problem with your car (more common as the electronics become more complicated) and the dealer (and electronics supplier) does absolutely nothing to fix the problem.

I would also like to question which software producer has no bugs when they release software to the public? Microsoft? SAP? Apple? Symantec? HP?.......

 

[Slip Jigs]

I wonder how close they're tracking post launch service and support and if the added cost to them falls within an expected or acceptable range.

While 100% of the customers may experience some sort of issue due to an instable software release, there are probably a large percentage that doesn't generate a CSR call or a service call, replacement unit etc.

 

[walters]

When you think of a computer, and entering the BIOS to disable a function or piece of hardware, you tend to get many errors or problems from disabling things in the BIOS.

I think perhaps if DirecTV enables OTA, all circuits on the motherboard will be working as designed and may resolve some issues. The unit is clearly designed to be completely enabled. Trying to keep part of the unit a sleep is certain to cause issues, most electronics are designed to be completely on.

Just a comparison thought. The HR20 is like a small computer. It has a OS, motherboard, and hard drive. So if you look at it like a computer, and you've disabled features or hidden them, then it's going to cause problems.

Perhaps it's just wishful thinking... who knows...

You're absolutely right. The last line, anyway.

 

[jgrade]

When you think of a computer, and entering the BIOS to disable a function or piece of hardware, you tend to get many errors or problems from disabling things in the BIOS.

I think perhaps if DirecTV enables OTA, all circuits on the motherboard will be working as designed and may resolve some issues. The unit is clearly designed to be completely enabled. Trying to keep part of the unit a sleep is certain to cause issues, most electronics are designed to be completely on.

Just a comparison thought. The HR20 is like a small computer. It has a OS, motherboard, and hard drive. So if you look at it like a computer, and you've disabled features or hidden them, then it's going to cause problems.

Perhaps it's just wishful thinking... who knows...

Or perhaps this will cause so many more problems that the engineers will be completely overwhelmed and take longer to fix basic functions. When troubleshooting a computer problem it is best to turn off anything that could be causing issues (IE safe mode, removing peripherals, turning of ports etc) and then slowly turn them back on one at a time. Having every possible option selected at the same time is a great way to waste time troubleshooting. TOA will be coming; rushing D to activate them will only increase the problems. Does anyone remotely think that the OTA tuners will be trouble free? Imagine the problems activating them now will cause. This forum moves fast enough as it is. I fully expect this thread to be on page 2 by the end of the day.

 

[EMoMoney]

You're absolutely right. The last line, anyway.

Glad somebody said it and was not too hard on the guy. Worst analogy I've seen yet.

 

[jgrade]

Glad somebody said it and was not too hard on the guy. Worst analogy I've seen yet.

Can't blame the guy for trying, but I completely agree as you can see in my last post.:shrug:

 

[cawgijoe]

I agree this is a good aseessment. Just look at the products that have been delayed this year and the rash of SH** these companies have taken from the press and consumers alike, not to mention the impact on stock value:

Airbus A380
Microsoft Vista
Sony Playstation 3

Also look at the products that were released too early and the way the press and / or consumers has slammed them:

Toshiba HD A1
Samsung Blu-Ray player
DirecTV HR20

To be honest I think companies are in a loose / loose situation from a PR perspective; release on time and be damned or release late and be damned.

I for one am happy that they released early and I can live with the problems of being an early adopter since unlike some other companies DirecTV is at least trying to resolve the problems. Compare that to when you have a problem with your car (more common as the electronics become more complicated) and the dealer (and electronics supplier) does absolutely nothing to fix the problem.

I would also like to question which software producer has no bugs when they release software to the public? Microsoft? SAP? Apple? Symantec? HP?.......

Dammed if you do, dammed if you don't.

 

[hdtvfan0001]

I agree this is a good aseessment. Just look at the products that have been delayed this year and the rash of SH** these companies have taken from the press and consumers alike, not to mention the impact on stock value:

Airbus A380
Microsoft Vista
Sony Playstation 3

Also look at the products that were released too early and the way the press and / or consumers has slammed them:

Toshiba HD A1
Samsung Blu-Ray player
DirecTV HR20

Your comments don't represent the right categories.

Most reviews highly praised the HD-A1, slammed the Blu Ray
Most reviews praised Vista, blasted Playstation 3

The common demoninator there on poor ratings was Sony. Enough said.

BUT in 30 years, the development teams that I worked with hardly ever shipped a product "on schedule". (The official schedules were usually overly optimistic, set by upper management, over the objections of the developers who "knew better". But the schedule slippages were hidden from the outside world, because products were not announced externally until much later than has become customary in recent years. In fact, products were typically not announced until QA certified them, around the end of Beta test.)

DirecTV was faced with a choice. The HR20 software was running late. WAY late. The hardware was already in the pipeline, the marketing and support were already geared up and ready to go ... so what to do? Ship it anyway, meeting external commitments and gaining thousands of unwitting (and annoyed) Beta-testers? Or hold it back, angering thousands of customers, suppliers, and installers?

So far, yours is the only realistic assessment here. You are right on. It was a business decision to get it to market. I happen to have 2 of these HR20's and have been using them for over 6 weeks with virtually NO problems. I know others in the same situation. Obviously some other folks (who tend to be far more vocal, somewhat justifiably) have not a the same great experience that many others of us have had.

The glass is half empty mentality - shouldn't have rushed it to market, frequent updates, perceived instability.

The glass is half full mentality - got to market so customers could enjoy as soon as possible, frequent updates demonstate product commitment to get it right for everyone, stable for the vast majority of users to date.

The glass is completely full - your view, my view, the realistic view - the glass is half full of water and half full of air - while most have had positive experiences, there are obviously some who have not, and clearly there is aggressive work going on to rectify those remaining issues for the minority of customers.

Thank you for your "real world" reasoning and assessment. It's nice to know not everyone is a ranting or whiney perfectionist for new technology that's just on the market 60 days.

By the way - yes, Microsoft, IBM, HP, and all those other companies do have similar buggy products out there. Maybe there's a little less passion for a bad printer or specific software application than for an HD DVR that people use in their home (some daily), and less people choose to scream about it 10 times a day.

 

[jgrade]

I would also like to question which software producer has no bugs when they release software to the public? Microsoft? SAP? Apple? Symantec? HP?.......

Dont' forget TiVo! Early units like my T-60 had many problems including only having one tuner activated (Hmmm much like the OTA issue).

 

[jschuman]

Dont' forget TiVo! Early units like my T-60 had many problems including only having one tuner activated (Hmmm much like the OTA issue).

Yep, I remember those days. I also remember how awesome it was to get the second tuner active.

With the HR20 I'm just trying to keep an optimistic viewpoint and post here when I have troubles/questions. There are lots of good workarounds/features to explore with this box.

The frequency of software updates is good. It means that Directv is working on the software, fixing bugs and generally cares about making this receiver better.

 

[Starrbuck]

As software engineers, we'd be fired for releasing code like this. That's because we work for important companies, like major hardware/software vendors, banks, financial services companies, etc. Remember this is just television. It's entertainment. Relax and the bugs will be fixed in time.

 

[ToddD]

I work at one of the top software companies, and this kind of quality is simply unacceptable for shipping software. I would expect it for a beta product, but I was not expecting to be a beta tester for the HR20.

The weekly software updates are similarly unprofessional. The lack of complete QA testing is really unbelievable. The regressions and new bugs are should easily be caught by adequate real-world and automated testing procedures.

When the bugs are fixed, and the software is of shipping-quality, it should be a nice piece of work, but this kind of development is really pathetic. Companies should not sell software until it is thoroughly tested and ready to ship.

Sadly from what I've seen reported here, Beta quality on the HR 20 would be a godsend! These reports look more like Alpha quality to me. I beta test for quite a few software providers and not one of them has asked me to test anything that locks up my system or has frequent reboots.....

 

[bonscott87]

There are some positives for us, here. Our feedback gets a lot more attention (and immediacy) than it would if the product were shipped in a more-or-less "completed" state (in other words, we have a better-than-usual chance to influence the software design decisions, even the "feature set"). And DirecTV found out that the demand for this product was significantly greater than anticipated - which has to be a positive, as it will affect their priorities and resources.

William C. McCain
Palo Alto, California

Very, very good statement on the situation and I hope everyone here on the forum gets a chance to read it.

Call us beta testers or not but I really, really like the opportunity to work about as closely with the DirecTV engineers/programmer as we'll ever get. They are reading here and our posts *are* making a difference in the direction of the product and the software updates. Me like.

 

[ToddD]

Very, very good statement on the situation and I hope everyone here on the forum gets a chance to read it.

Call us beta testers or not but I really, really like the opportunity to work about as closely with the DirecTV engineers/programmer as we'll ever get. They are reading here and our posts *are* making a difference in the direction of the product and the software updates. Me like.

You do make a great point....It is NICE to see DirecTv paying attention and responding.

 

[btmoore]

I guess I am getting old and crotchety but would of prefer a stable system over this form of indirect feedback thru a forum about the serious stability and usability issues. None of the stability issues or code defects associated with trick plays needed any external feedback. Any DVR needs to be able to Record, Play, FF, RW, Pause, Schedule and not crash, 99.999% of the time. D* did not need feedback to know this, this kind of functionality needs to work every time all the time for every one. If they had the basics of a DVR working and there were some minor glitches or feedback on how their UI could be better and that feedback got back to D* for enhancement, that would be great. I don't understand why it is such a good thing that D* released a DVR that can't reliably do DVR functionality, do I need to provide feedback to Boeing on making a plane fly, do I need to tell GM how to make a car go safely? Why is a positive thing that we need to tell DirecTV that their DVR is not reliable and has problems doing basic DVR functionality? The situation we are in is far different from telling GM "you know it would be nice if there was a cup holder here", it is more like telling GM you know "I need your car not to stop working when I am driving on the highway". I have not found this, for a lack of a better name, involuntary beta program, a positive experience.