If they add my locals, do I lose distants?

1802 Views 17 Replies 6 Participants Last post by jrjcd, Nov 2, 2002

G

Discussion Starter · Oct 23, 2002

I have distant networks that are "grandfathered".

If Dish puts up my locals as one of the new cities, will I lose my grandfathered distant networks automatically as soon as my locals are available?

If not, would I lose them if I add one or more of my locals?

TIA.

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1 - 18 of 18 Posts

TNGTony

· #2 · Oct 23, 2002

This question is asked at least once every time a new local is added or rumored. With the possible exception of the PBS national channel (249 for Dish) the answer is no. The qualifications for Distant Networks (ABC, CBS, NBC and Fox) are one thing. The qualification for local channels is another. They have nothin to do with each other.

PBS on the other hand is a different story. Just recently PBS and the DBS carriers came to an agreement that if you are ABLE to receive a local PBS station via DBS, you cannot receive the national channel. However just asking for your locals when they become available (or at any time) will NOT trigger any "check" on what you should or shouldn't have.

See ya
Tony.

G

Discussion Starter · #3 · Oct 29, 2002

So you are saying that there is a difference between the results for a grandfathered-distants-subscriber and a new subscriber?

I am grandfathered to have distants, but using the qualification web page shows that any new subscriber would not qualify for distants in my location.

Now that you know that, are you still sure that calling to add new locals would not affect my distants?

jrjcd

· #4 · Oct 30, 2002

if you are grandfathered, it's just a matter of time before they realize you're still on and turn you off-they did me and i worked hard to fly low under the radar...

now it's either BE or burned out RV title...

TNGTony

· #5 · Oct 30, 2002

What I am saying is that you status of distant networks has nothing, zip, nada to do with your status for locals. As long as you don't get a moron CSR that turns off the distant net by accident. Once they are turned off, then you need to qualify to get them again BY LAW even if it's a nanosecond. But it would have to be a mistake by the CSR. Again. There is NO CONNECTION whatsoever between the qualification for locals and distant network. They are two different things.

>>>>EXCEPT<<<<<<
PBS.

If your local PBS becomes available via your DBS company (Dish or DirecTV) you will lose the national feed of PBS whether or not you get locals NO MATTER WHO YOUR GRANDFATHER IS.

See ya
Tony

chessmaster1010

· #6 · Oct 30, 2002

Tony,

While you are correct that local qualifications and distant network qualifications are not related under the SHVIA law, nothing in the law requires the providers to offer distance networks to all who qualify for them.

There have been reports that in a deal made with ABC-Disney, Dish promised to turn off any ABC distant nets delivered to customers that can receive a local ABC affiliate. I do not know for sure this is happening, but it is possible so the original poster may have a legitimate concern.

Karl Foster

· #7 · Oct 30, 2002

Guest,

I'm not sure where you are at, but here is how it worked for me. I called Directv (the same procedure for Dish Network) and requested distance networks. They sent a request to each of the local networks here NBC, CBS, ABC, Fox to provide distance networks. All of them declined except Fox, so I have Fox from Salt Lake (local), Los Angeles, and New York. The reason for this, I was told, is that Fox Corp. owns our local Fox station. I was trying to get CBS distance nets, but I'll take what I can get. Every city is different, as is every station in that city. A CBS affiliate in one city may allow you to have a distance net while a CBS in my city won't. It is truly hit-and-miss.

TNGTony

· #8 · Oct 31, 2002

Chessmaster and karl,

Guest has distants already. If there is a deal for a channel to be turned off when a particular net becomes available in the area, calling to get locals WILL NOT trigger the audit. PBS is the only "network" I know that has an agreement to shut of their national channel when locals become AVAILABE--NOT when you call to order locals.

I don't know how else to say it. With Dish, there is no corrollation between calling to get locals and keeping distant channels. The only risk is running into a CSR that has no clue what they are doing and they turn your distants off BY MISTAKE. Then you're SOL!

See ya
Tony

G

Discussion Starter · #9 · Oct 31, 2002

Short answer is YES.
You will loose your distant networks. Dish sold us out in some negotiations and if locals are available bye-bye distants. I speak from experience because this happened to me. It wasn't immediate but they eventually caught it. The supposed "grandfathering" doesn't make a difference.

chessmaster1010

· #10 · Oct 31, 2002

Tony,

Calling to add locals may or may not trigger an audit. How would we know what Dish's audit procedures currently are? I know I was audited just because I called to change the billing on my account from monthly to yearly.

If he is audited the fact that he still qualifies under SHVIA may or may not mean that he keeps his distant nets since Dish apparently now has a policy of turning off distant nets for SHVIA qualified customers in certain cases - as I said there have been reports that this is due to an agreement with ABC.

Besides the original poster's first question was "will I lose my grandfathered distant networks automatically as soon as my locals are available?. Once again I believe that (despite there being no SHVIA relationship) the answer is we do not know.

TNGTony

· #11 · Nov 1, 2002

Chessmaster.... to your last point, I can state unequivocally that YOU WILL NOT automatically lose distants when locals become available EXCEPT PBS.

KingsFan, There are continuous audits that run automatically. Your locals becoming available and your loss of distant networks (EXCEPT PBS) were NOT related.

This is the last time I'll state this...you can argue with it all you wish, the fact (and I know it to be a fact) remains....

Dish getting locals has nothing, zero, nada, zilch to do with you losing your distant networks EXCEPT PBS.

A person with distant networks (whether he qualifies or not) ordering locals has nothing, zero, nada, zilch to do with you losing your distant networks INCLUDING PBS.

You have to remember that Dish WANTS to sell you all the channels it can. It wont take any away unless it is FORCED to.

See ya
Tony

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scooper

· #12 · Nov 1, 2002

Instead of arguing over it (and I happen to support Tony on this), let's just state The conditions.

For LOCALs - you must live the DMA of the stations.

For Distant Nets - you must live in what is commonly called a "white area' - i.e. so far away that reception of the stations via OTA doesn't work. In other words, you're outside the Grade B coverage area of the station.

As you should be able to see - the 2 conditions have absolutely nothing to do with each other. This gives rise to the rare (but possible) condition that your service address can indeed qualify for Distant Networks, yet you are also within the DMA of an offered city - making it possible for you to LEGALLY get 3 cities networks.
There are areas in the Raleigh DMA that this very situation can occur.

chessmaster1010

· #13 · Nov 1, 2002

I don't seem to be able to get my point across.

Scooper, I understand that there would no change in qualification for distant networks under the SHVIA. The SHVIA is not the isssue.

Originally posted by TNGTony
You have to remember that Dish WANTS to sell you all the channels it can. It wont take any away unless it is FORCED to.

Tony - Yes, but it was reported that, as part of the retransmission negotiations with ABC for the O&O locals, or maybe it was in the protrated negotiations for ABC Family, that Dish agreed to turn off ABC distant networks for some customers who were eligible for ABC locals. While they were not forced to agree to this condition, they apparently did agree to it in return for some concession from ABC.

Do you know for a fact that this agreement between ABC and Dish does not exist?

So that no one mis-construes me - I am not saying that the original poster will definitely lose any distant nets. I am saying that no one here can definitely say that he won't.

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scooper

· #14 · Nov 1, 2002

If you can produce such an agreement, I might be inclined to agree with you. Until then - Can you prove such an agreement DOES exist ? We know there is a retransmission agreement with ABC - that's how their being re-broadcast on both E* and D*. But NO ONE outside of ABC / stations and E* / D* knows for absolute certainty what is contained within their agreements.

So, until you have proof, stop spreading innuendo...

Gio

· #15 · Nov 1, 2002

I had distant networks since Feb of 1997, then in Sept of 2002 we got locals. I never subscribed to locals, but I lost all distant networks, except CBS and PBS about three weeks ago. Explain that Tony.

chessmaster1010

· #16 · Nov 1, 2002

Scooper,

innuendo?

If you re-read my first post in this thread I said, "I do not know for sure this is happening, but it is possible so the original poster may have a legitimate concern".

Tony is the one who said that "I can state unequivocally that YOU WILL NOT automatically lose distants", so to back that claim he or you are the ones that have to prove that no such agreement exists.

I only said that such an agreement had been reported. You can search here and at DBSforums for those threads. The agreement may or may not exist. If it does exist, the original poster may or may not lose one or more distant networks.

My only point, which I have stated over and over again, is that when his market gets locals no one here can be sure he won't lose distants!

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scooper

· #17 · Nov 2, 2002

Until we see proof - INNUENDO !!

jrjcd

· #18 · Nov 2, 2002

the only reason that this fellow might lose his distants is because of his location to his DMA-no other reason!!!!IF he is far enough away, he could get his choice of two of six different(two if he's still only on a dish300)DMAs-one east coast and one west-under only very unusual circumstances would he be able to get distants AND his locals-usually your restrited to two(one east & one west)...

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