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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Then go spend a couple of billion dollars, put up a satellite and have at it.

I post less then once a day. I don't think that makes me a D* shill or employee or whatever you want to call it. Frankly, if D* didn't have NFLST I don't even know if I would be using there service. Which I have been for 11 years. I can choose cable service if I want.

I guess it's just getting old seeing all of the complaining and negative posts. I appluad Earl's patience, sometimes I wonder how he keeps from blasting some of these people. Before someone posts this, Yes, I don't have to be a member of these boards. But I am and I will continue too. It's not that bad and I will get over it. I have learned a tremendous amount. There just seems to be a number threads that have been closed or on the verge of being closed recently because of the content/nature of the posts.

Again, I'm not taking up for D* nor do I work for them. They've got some issues, but what large corporation doesn't. I sit back and read some of these posts and the *****ing and think to myself if some of these people have all the answers then they need to go out and do it themselves and see if they can do it any better.

I'm stepping down from my soap box. Have a nice weekend.
 

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HDTVsportsfan said:
Then go spend a couple of billion dollars, put up a satellite and have at it.

I post less then once a day. I don't think that makes me a D* shill or employee or whatever you want to call it. Frankly, if D* didn't have NFLST I don't even know if I would be using there service. Which I have been for 11 years. I can choose cable service if I want.

I guess it's just getting old seeing all of the complaining and negative posts. I appluad Earl's patience, sometimes I wonder how he keeps from blasting some of these people. Before someone posts this, Yes, I don't have to be a member of these boards. But I am and I will continue too. It's not that bad and I will get over it. I have learned a tremendous amount. There just seems to be a number threads that have been closed or on the verge of being closed recently because of the content/nature of the posts.

Again, I'm not taking up for D* nor do I work for them. They've got some issues, but what large corporation doesn't. I sit back and read some of these posts and the *****ing and think to myself if some of these people have all the answers then they need to go out and do it themselves and see if you can do it any better.

I'm stepping down from my soap box. Have a nice weekend.
Amen.
 

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"ahem"

I truely, TRUELY enjoyed my opportunity, on a previous thread, to use my "get out and push" reply to people b*****ing about Directv's slowness to launch satellites.


And another thing...they do seem to be above par, from what I could see from the inside when I worked there, on fairness, good product, and good treatment for their customers. Notwithstanding that they are NOT a non-profit company, they either get it right the first time, or they learn rather quickly from their mistakes. I found myself frustrated a few times with an issue, when within a month...they had a fix for it, amazing, truely, amazing.

My 2 cents too.
 

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AnonomissX said:
And another thing...they do seem to be above par, from what I could see from the inside when I worked there, on fairness, good product, and good treatment for their customers.
Do you suppose that you managed to get out before they brought out the cat 'o 9 tales?

I'm not sure I buy the learning from mistakes argument. Given the current state of the R15, I can't imagine why they should think that the HR20 was going to magically turn out flawless as they said it was back in June.

The thing that frosts me most is the idea that the suits are telling us that everything is rosy and HD expansion is going to take place on or about a date before the satellites are launched.
 

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For what it's worth, I'll jump in here as well. I've been a DTV customer for 4 1/2 years, and I absolutely love the service (especially after leaving Comcast). Are they perfect? Nope. Do they have issues? Yep. Do they make mistakes. Of course. But in business either you meet the needs of your customers or you disappear. Businesses make mistakes, and the successful ones learn from them (New Coke, anyone?). DirecTV is an astoundingly successful business. Doesn't mean they can't slide - they can. Just like any other business.

When I hear folks at work griping about their own TV service (whether DTV, Comcast cable, or E*) I get on my soapbox and tell them a couple things. First, it's TV... it's not life and death. Yeah it's annoying when a product doesn't work as advertised, but we're talking about being entertained here. Second, there are many changes going on right now. Because of that, all of these companies are following their own strategies for getting from where they are today, to point 'B'. The paths may all be different, but at the end of the day, they're all going to get there. DTV is slow at coming up to speed with HD? Sure, but their strategy has been very different than other companies (hitting the local markets over the "cable" stations). Anyone really believe that 2 - 5 years from now they're really going to continue to lag? I don't think so.

If we were talking about only a single innovation coming down the pike, and if DTV were slow to adopt that innovation, there would be a reason for a gripe. But there are many changes that are all happening all at once. It's just impossible for any company to implement all those changes all at once. So, my second point to folks I work with "be patient... they'll get there... and if you REALLY can't stand how a company is operating, switch... nothing will get the company's attention faster than when many people leave." I compare what I get to everything else available to me in this area, and from my perspective, nothing else matches what I currently get with DTV. No, I'm not a rep for the company. But I've compared them all, and I continue to do so (FiOS TV JUST became available around here, and I did an apples-to-apples comparison with what I currently have, and I see no need/reason to switch).

Ok, off my soapbox now.
 

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Oh, one last thing on that whole "new stuff happening" thing that I alluded to. Realize that with all the changes happening, every company out there is throwing new technology around at a dizzying rate. New technology is buggy. That's just the nature of it. Yeah, someone can say "well, they should have tested the heck out of the R15 before putting it out there..." and I don't doubt that they fell down on that a bit, but there's a great deal of pressure to put something out there to get in the market (you should hear folks I work with gripe about their E* HD service). So, you put lots of new technology out there very quickly, and yes, it will have bugs. Not saying that it isn't frustrating - it is (I have an older DVD player -- I got one while they were still novel technology -- it freezes regularly... it becomes totally unresponsive - just the nature of new stuff). And sure a company should do what they can to mitigate those bugs. But again, we're talking about lots of new technology. I have no doubt that, over time, it will all stabilize. But it will take some time. Ok, now I'm REALLY off my soapbox.
 

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I don't know if I could do it better, but I certainly wouldn't have tried to fix something that wasn't broken by trying to build my own DVR. Instead, I would have built on what I already have and make it better.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
jpl...Actually touched on a few items that I had in my original post but in the end I did not include. Let us not forget that most of us were clammering (<spelling??) for the HR20. As far as I'm concerned, we got exactly what we asked for. If anyone thinks that this HR20 release was going to be relatively bug free, then they were living a pipe dream.

I missed my first Dallas game in like 8 years when it did not record the dallas/cardinals game. Yea, I was pissed. But I chose to use the HR20. I could have still used the one of the two HR10's I still have. And yes, I have experienced the FF/RW lock up issue. So I'm not trying to discount the peeps that are having similiar problems or worse. I've experianced some of them. Does that mean I'm giving D* a free pass, absolutley not, they have a responsibility to continue to work on these issues.

People need to complain and point and the bugs and flaws in any product. But there is a right way and a wrong way of doing it. Some of these people need to get there heads out of there A** and back into reality and be more constructive than destructive.
 

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What is this, the Dept. of Redundancy Dept.? Please go back and check all the old threads (I mean 2-3 months ago). It's all been said before, and it was just as unhelpful then to all the HR20 owners whose boxes don't work as it is now. You can take down your soapboxes in defense of D*. They don't need your help or support. They just need to deliver what they promised in their marketing/advertisting materials (i.e., a working HD DVR). When they do that, we can all get back to life.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I'm not nor did I ever say I was defending D*. I said several times the exact opposite.

It's about all the over the top whining that has been occuring. Well, like I am right now i guess.:grin:

btw, if people are waiting for a "working DVR" to "get back to life".
Then well...;) that's kind of my point.
 

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HDTVsportsfan said:
I'm not nor did I ever say I was defending D*. I said several times the exact opposite.

It's about all the over the top whining that has been occuring. Well, like I am right now i guess.:grin:

btw, if people are waiting for a "working DVR" to "get back to life".
Then well...;) that's kind of my point.
Of course, I meant all the people who came here to vent, get help, complain, whine, crack wise, ask for advice, check on software updates, whatever, will be long gone when their HR20s work 99.9999 percent of the time (in terms of reliability). I didn't mean it literally (the part about getting back to life). It was merely a figure of speech. FYI, many people (my guess is you included) integrate TV watching (whatever their preferences) with their lives. I know I do. Doesn't mean it's life or death if I miss something. But in that particular aspect/part of life, it is nice to just turn on a machine and have it work as advertised. Pretty simple.
 

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HDTVsportsfan said:
I'm not nor did I ever say I was defending D*. I said several times the exact opposite.

It's about all the over the top whining that has been occuring. Well, like I am right now i guess.:grin:

btw, if people are waiting for a "working DVR" to "get back to life".
Then well...;) that's kind of my point.
Also, I was more directing my comments to jpl, but I also wanted to point out that these things have been said dozens of times before on various threads on DBS Talk.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
tstarn said:
Also, I was more directing my comments to jpl, but I also wanted to point out that these things have been said dozens of times before on various threads on DBS Talk.
That's cool TSTARN, I understand. I'm not trying to pick a fight. :)
I don't want to give the impression that I'm sitting up on my high horse or anything either.

I was just reading some of the posts of the last couple of days and geez....for some people it does seem to be life or death. Of course, I'm not offended by any of it. I'm just using the board for what it's meant. Well, I think I am.
 

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HDTVsportsfan said:
That's cool TSTARN, I understand. I'm not trying to pick a fight. :)
I don't want to give the impression that I'm sitting up on my high horse or anything either.

I was just reading some of the posts of the last couple of days and geez....for some people it does seem to be life or death. Of course, I'm not offended by any of it. I'm just using the board for what it's meant. Well, I think I am.
Understand. I've never owned a piece of gear that has caused so much turmoil in so little time, have to admit. And mine is working at 100 percent, for now. I just don't understand the inconsistent performance across owners. I don't care about OTA, but I do about reliable recording.
 

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tstarn said:
Also, I was more directing my comments to jpl, but I also wanted to point out that these things have been said dozens of times before on various threads on DBS Talk.
Yes, they have been posted repeatedly over the last several months... but so have the gripes about things like the R15. I don't know how many threads I've seen, e.g., complaining about DTV not having enough bandwidth to have adequate HD. I would say that the redundant complaints very much outweigh the number of redundant positive statements. Also, I was simply encapsulating here. I know the statements have been made before, but I think it helps to keep these things in mind, and I was, like I said, encapsulating - just collecting the things to keep in mind.

I'm a s/w developer (well, more of a manager now than a developer), and I've worked on many a development project. One thing that you fight against is "scope creep" - making sure that you keep the parameters of the system in mind... otherwise, before you know it, you'll be designing your system to get you coffee in the morning - which is fine... if that's what the system is SUPPOSED to do. All I was saying is that I think people need to keep things in mind. Also, and this goes back to the first posting in this thread (and what I took to be the point of this thread) - just cause one person wants a system designed a specific way doesn't mean that the company sees it your way. It would be nice to be able to give every user specifically and exactly what they want. That's just not possible. Many folks complain that their system doesn't do the thing they want in the way that they want. Well, no... it doesn't. But companies like DTV weigh many things when making these types of decisions.

One final point, and this will probably be my last on this thread -- and one thing I also remind people many times - we don't know what we don't know. Why did DTV, e.g. drop TiVo and go off and develop their own DVR? I really don't know. I've heard lots of speculation in these threads... but that's all it is - people guessing. I'm not ready, based on TiVo's experiences with other companies, to put all the blame on DTV. TiVo strikes me as a company that puts many demands on the relationship with the other companies that they deal with. Why would DTV drop TiVo, and develop their own platform? One very valid reason, in my book, would be to give them more flexibility - and more control over the DVR platform -- something they wouldn't have if they solely relied on TiVo. Is that the reason they did it? I honestly have no idea, but it sounds reasonable to me.

Ok, done griping :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
jpl said:
Why would DTV drop TiVo, and develop their own platform? One very valid reason, in my book, would be to give them more flexibility - and more control over the DVR platform -- something they wouldn't have if they solely relied on TiVo.
You can't manage what you don't own.:)
 

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jpl said:
Yes, they have been posted repeatedly over the last several months... but so have the gripes about things like the R15. I don't know how many threads I've seen, e.g., complaining about DTV not having enough bandwidth to have adequate HD. I would say that the redundant complaints very much outweigh the number of redundant positive statements. Also, I was simply encapsulating here. I know the statements have been made before, but I think it helps to keep these things in mind, and I was, like I said, encapsulating - just collecting the things to keep in mind.

I'm a s/w developer (well, more of a manager now than a developer), and I've worked on many a development project. One thing that you fight against is "scope creep" - making sure that you keep the parameters of the system in mind... otherwise, before you know it, you'll be designing your system to get you coffee in the morning - which is fine... if that's what the system is SUPPOSED to do. All I was saying is that I think people need to keep things in mind. Also, and this goes back to the first posting in this thread (and what I took to be the point of this thread) - just cause one person wants a system designed a specific way doesn't mean that the company sees it your way. It would be nice to be able to give every user specifically and exactly what they want. That's just not possible. Many folks complain that their system doesn't do the thing they want in the way that they want. Well, no... it doesn't. But companies like DTV weigh many things when making these types of decisions.

One final point, and this will probably be my last on this thread -- and one thing I also remind people many times - we don't know what we don't know. Why did DTV, e.g. drop TiVo and go off and develop their own DVR? I really don't know. I've heard lots of speculation in these threads... but that's all it is - people guessing. I'm not ready, based on TiVo's experiences with other companies, to put all the blame on DTV. TiVo strikes me as a company that puts many demands on the relationship with the other companies that they deal with. Why would DTV drop TiVo, and develop their own platform? One very valid reason, in my book, would be to give them more flexibility - and more control over the DVR platform -- something they wouldn't have if they solely relied on TiVo. Is that the reason they did it? I honestly have no idea, but it sounds reasonable to me.

Ok, done griping :)
No problem with those ideas. But if DTV decided to control its own destiny, it should have at least matched the overall reliability it delivered with its original DVRs. Again, nothing complicated. I agree that some people are hooked on the Tivo interface and wouldn't be happy no matter what DTV delivered. But I also believe that if the HR20 had arrived as a reliable DVR, many, if not the large majority, of people complaining wouldn't have bothered. They'd be peacefully using their HR20s, just like they did (and still do) their Directivos.

In short, most consumers don't care about the political/economic reasons for making a move. They only care that the decision works. How many mergers (AOL and TW) have sounded good on paper until after the move? Same with DTV's decision to go it alone. Seems like both the R15 (which I don't own) and the HR20 have had some of the same issues (mainly missed or wrecked recordings). All DTV had to do to win the hearts and minds of its ENTIRE sub population was come through with a good, solid DVR lineup that pleases all those millions. Doesn't that make sense? I know if my HR20 had worked out of the box, I wouldn't even be looking for FIOS arrival in the Philadelphia area. Of course, I wouldn't have met all these nice people on DBS Talk either.
 

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HDTVsportsfan said:
You can't manage what you don't own.:)
Not sure about the economics, but DTV managed their DVRs pretty well prior to the R15 and HR20. At least in my household. They worked, 99.999999 percent of the time. Sure that's the same with other subs as well.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
tstarn said:
...but DTV managed their DVRs pretty well prior to the R15 and HR20.....
tstarn,

I must be missing something. What DVR models before the R15 and HR20 did D* have that didn't have the TIVO software. My point was D* wouldn't have to rely on TIVO or anyone else for updates, support, etc since it's there product from top to bottom. Whether that's good or not, well......
 
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