[sgrimess]

Sorry for the redundant question. I've checked the boards before posting but still can't figure this out. I have a new Sony kdl-40xbr2 that's full 1080p capable (I know I won't get that). I'm using an HDMI cable. I have my HR20 resolution set to 720p and 1080i. And the button on the receiver set to 1080i pillar box. (I don't like the Stretch or Crop look on SD) My HD channels look pretty good, but my standard def channels look horrible. I understand they won't look as good as the HD ones, but regardless, do I have this set up correctly? Is this the optimal way to handle this? I don't want to use Native as it is too slow. And I don't want to be flipping the Format button every time I change channels. What do you guys recommend?

Thanks,

Steve

 

[Earl Bonovich]

If you don't want to use Native.. And don't want to be flipping the format button.

Then yes, you have it setup the best you can by having it at 1080i

 

[Brantel]

Face it, SD stinks when shown on a bigger screen compaired to HD. Even though the HR-20 upconverts it, you can't squeeze blood from a turnip.

 

[sgrimess]

Do I even need 720p selected in the Set Up Menu? Or should I just have 1080i seleted in the menu and 1080i pillar box selected on the format button on the receiver?

Thanks

 

[litzdog911]

Do I even need 720p selected in the Set Up Menu? Or should I just have 1080i seleted in the menu and 1080i pillar box selected on the format button on the receiver?

Thanks

Nope. If everything looks set at 1080i, just keep it that way.

 

[edmartin]

I have the same issue with my Sony (Sony KF-42WE610). I posted a thread about it here (the system won't let me include a URL but just search for posts from me in this forum).

I talked to D* level 2 support multiple times and had a D* tech out to visit. I even replaced the HR20 thinking that it had to be a hardware fault in the box. Unfortunately, it just seems to be the way it is. I can't claim that it's Sony-wide but it is clearly (pun intended) an issue between my Sony and the HR20. I'm guessing you have the same problem.

I had an H20 HD receiver while I waited for my HR20 DVR. And compared to the H20, just like you are experiencing, the HR20 looks bad on SD if you lock it to 1080i. And no, it's not just that SD channels are inferior to HD channels (we all know that). The fact here is that SD channels on the HR20 look inferior (by a lot) to SD channels on the H20 when in 1080i mode. Taking it a step further, the guide & all menus look inferior on the HR20 when I am on an HD channel in 1080i mode.

The solution for me has been to turn native mode ON on the HR20 and turn on all resolutions (480i, 480p, 720p and 1080i). The delay in tuning is a nuisance and I cringe every time my TV clicks between resolutions but it's better than blurry TV. SD channels looks almost as good now as they did on the H20. The guide & menus still look inferior in 1080i mode, though.

Since the H20 did not have this problem, I am hoping that D* can get it fixed in a future software release for the HR20. D* support did say that they had received at least 1 other report about this same issue on a Sony TV. I'd suggest that you call, too. The more, the merrier!

 

[sgrimess]

I just don't know if I can handle Native Mode and the delay. I flip a lot. In one other thread I read there was a guy who said to keep everything on 720p because a progressive signal is better than an interlaced one. The TV will upconvert the 720p to 1080p without interlacing it. I don't know what having 480i and 480p selected will do because I don't even think my TV supports those low resolutions. If I recall it's just 720-1080p, but I could be wrong.

 

[mganga]

yes, i too am confused as i'm sure are others. what the hell is the "native" mode actually doing? if its on is that what's doing the upconverting versus off anf allowing my tv to upconvert?

 

[jdmac29]

I have the 42a10 lcd rear projection 720p native.
I agree with posters about the h20's delay while in native mode is much faster than the delay for the hr20 when the resolution is changing. I feel all sony's have really good deinterlacers and upconversion for the signals whether it be 480i/p or 1080i, my picture looks very good through hdmi cable or component cable.
I would leave native on the hr20 and let the tv do the work. His bravia is a very high end sony lcd flat panel and the tv will do a better job with the sd stuff than the hr20. For folks with say a no name brand tv then maybe the hr20 might do a better job without native on but the sony does a great job. The bravia is native 1080p so it is trying to convert a 480i signal all the way up to 1080p so that mean alot of lines it has to make up in the signal for the picture. I feel the hr20 sd picture looks alot better than my old samsung ts360 on my sony. There is only so much you can do with sd on a hdtv.

 

[veryoldschool]

Sorry for the redundant question. I've checked the boards before posting but still can't figure this out. I have a new Sony kdl-40xbr2 that's full 1080p capable (I know I won't get that). I'm using an HDMI cable. I have my HR20 resolution set to 720p and 1080i. And the button on the receiver set to 1080i pillar box. (I don't like the Stretch or Crop look on SD) My HD channels look pretty good, but my standard def channels look horrible. I understand they won't look as good as the HD ones, but regardless, do I have this set up correctly? Is this the optimal way to handle this? I don't want to use Native as it is too slow. And I don't want to be flipping the Format button every time I change channels. What do you guys recommend?
Thanks,
Steve

I think I have the 46" version of yours. I'm set to 1080 [only] on the HR-20 [native off] and the Sony is set to FULL to get my SD picture to have the correct size. They're connected with HDMI. Looks damn good to me. your mileage shouldn't vary.

 

[veryoldschool]

yes, i too am confused as i'm sure are others. what the hell is the "native" mode actually doing? if its on is that what's doing the upconverting versus off anf allowing my tv to upconvert?

Backward,
Native "on" will pass a 480/720/1080 program to your TV, where the TV will then convert it to what you've set.
Native "Off" will have the HR-20 convert your program to what ever you have the HR-20 set for.

 

[edmartin]

I just don't know if I can handle Native Mode and the delay. I flip a lot. In one other thread I read there was a guy who said to keep everything on 720p because a progressive signal is better than an interlaced one. The TV will upconvert the 720p to 1080p without interlacing it. I don't know what having 480i and 480p selected will do because I don't even think my TV supports those low resolutions. If I recall it's just 720-1080p, but I could be wrong.

I've tried every combination of resolutions on & off and native mode on & off. The 720p route didn't work for my TV but it may work for yours - certainly worth a try.

Everything I've done myself (and with Directv's help) and the tidbits of info I've been able to gather leads me to feel that there is just a current issue between the HR20 and at least some Sony TV's, though. Like I said above, my best result in terms of best overall picture across SD & HD is native on and all resolutions on. But I do hate the delay when surfing.

 

[cohbraz]

I just don't know if I can handle Native Mode and the delay. I flip a lot. In one other thread I read there was a guy who said to keep everything on 720p because a progressive signal is better than an interlaced one. The TV will upconvert the 720p to 1080p without interlacing it. I don't know what having 480i and 480p selected will do because I don't even think my TV supports those low resolutions. If I recall it's just 720-1080p, but I could be wrong.

You're getting confused between the resolution a broadcaster may use for a program, versus the resolution the receiver can send to your television.

Example: You are watching a football game on ESPNHD. That is broadcast in 720p, which seems to be the best for fast-motion signals. Your HR-20 receives the signal as 720p, then can either output it as a native resolution (720p) or output it to the resolution you select, such as 1080i or 720p. Either way, your set will then convert it to 1080p. If you set your receiver to output in 1080i, the signal is going from 720p to 1080i to 1080p.

-or-

You are watching a movie on HBOHD. That is broadcast in 1080i. Your HR-20 receives the signal as 1080i, then can either output it as a native resolution (1080i) or output it to the resolution you select, such as 1080i or 720p. Either way, your set will then convert it to 1080p. If you set the receiver to output in 1080i, the signal is going from 1080i to 1080p.

Notice in the second example that there is one less conversion in the video signal. That is because the receiver is outputting the 1080i signal as the same resolution it is being broadcast in: the native resolution. Since this set is a 1080p set, and since the HR-20 can not output in 1080p, it would be best to turn native resolution on, thus reducing the number of conversions the video signal is subjected to. However, if you have a 720p set, it is best to turn the native reolution off and set the HR-20 to output in just 720p. That way there is less conversion.

Remember, no matter how good the video scaler is, the more a signal is converted up or down, the greater the chance of video errors.

 

[bonscott87]

Try component instead of HDMI and see if that helps. Sounds like a problem with the Sony's in general as SD looks better through the HR20 then any other receiver I've ever had. I have a Hitachi HDTV though.

 

[veryoldschool]

You're getting confused between the resolution a broadcaster may use for a program, versus the resolution the receiver can send to your television.
Remember, no matter how good the video scaler is, the more a signal is converted up or down, the greater the chance of video errors.

Now I'm getting confused and I have his/her model TV.
Yes, the less video conversion the better & I've read & posted on the other thread.
1st- the question was about SD programing. Set your Sony to wide so a 4:3 picture is the correct size.
2nd- native off will have one conversion for all programs done by the HR-20. The Sony will "simply" turn it into "P".
3rd- native on will have two lags with surfing first the HR & then the Sony.
4th- IF it was "only" a 720P HDTV none of this has any meaning.

 

[edmartin]

Try component instead of HDMI and see if that helps. Sounds like a problem with the Sony's in general as SD looks better through the HR20 then any other receiver I've ever had. I have a Hitachi HDTV though.

For what it's worth, I tried 2 different sets of component cables (including the ones that worked great on my H20) and HDMI on my Sony. No difference.

 

[veryoldschool]

For what it's worth, I tried 2 different sets of component cables (including the ones that worked great on my H20) and HDMI on my Sony. No difference.

In your case with a 1386 x 788 TV resolution It would seem to me [as I don't have one to know] that the HR-20 should be set at 720P, since your TV won't display 1080 [1920x1080]. My older Sony RPTV wouldn't do 720P, just 1080I. For a 720P signal it would down convert it to 480 & then doubled it to 960, which didn't "cut it".
The first poster had a 1080 Sony, yours is a 720. What are you having troubles with, since it isn't a HDMI/component "issue?

Thinking further...
The H20 is made by two manufactures & the HR20 by a third, so comparing them for this type of settings won't help.
Following the "logic" of the least converting being best...
Try setting the HR to native off and only 720P and see what you get. Also check after making these setting that the HR20 isn't still in 1080I. I turned 720P off in my settings, but it still was in 720P. I had to press the button on the front of the box to change the resolution to 1080.

 

[richlife]

...Since this set is a 1080p set, and since the HR-20 can not output in 1080p, it would be best to turn native resolution on, thus reducing the number of conversions the video signal is subjected to....
Remember, no matter how good the video scaler is, the more a signal is converted up or down, the greater the chance of video errors.

This was a very well stated post, thanks.

I agree from my experience with the Sony KDS50A2000 (1080p) -- set Resolution to 1080i and Native mode on. You'll get the minimum delays possible and the best image at all resolutions. If it happens that your SD image isn't in Pillar Box, use Format to set it once; that should do it.

I wouldn't agree that there is any problem displaying SD or HD on a Sony (at least the newer LCOS ones. SD just won't display as well as an HD image -- too many conversions involved. This is the one fact that has been repeated for years as HD slowly expanded. Enjoy your HD, accept your SD and pity that 40-60% of all HDTV owners who don't know that HD service is required for that great picture they see in the showrooms. (We complain about the HR20, how about sitting looking at an SD image and swearing because you can't see HD and don't know better!)

 

[sgrimess]

I'm trying to force myself to watch with Native on tonight. It's not too bad I guess in terms of speed. Only really painful when going from 1080i to 480p SD channel. Picture quality does seem a little better. Hope I can get used to it because it does seem like the right way to go.

 

[veryoldschool]

I'm trying to force myself to watch with Native on tonight. It's not too bad I guess in terms of speed. Only really painful when going from 1080i to 480p SD channel. Picture quality does seem a little better. Hope I can get used to it because it does seem like the right way to go.

The bottom line to all of this is "what looks good to you". I've "played with" all of these & have ended up with only 1080 selected & native off on my HR-20. YMMV