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· DHMO User
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I noticed lately on DISC (182) and SCI (193) that the EPG has missing or wrong information that the DVR is not seeing the second airing as an exact repeat of the first airing. This probably has more to do with the Network, than with Tribune. Still, it's irritating.

For example, "An Idiot Abroad: The Bucket List" (SCI) which airs on Saturday evening with the "New" episodes airing at 7PM and a second airing at 10PM. The first airing has a "Originally aired" date of 2/18/2012. However, the second airing, same episode 3 hours later, has a "Originally aired" date of 10/21/2011 and is marked as an "old episode".

Another example is "World's Toughest Trucker" (DISC), which airs on Monday evening with the "New" episode airing at 7PM and a second airing at 9PM. The first airing has a "Originally aired" date of 2/20/2012. However, the second airing, same episode 2 hours later, has a "Originally aired" date of 1/12/2012 and is marked as an "old episode".

Of course, the DVR doesn't use the "Original aired" date to determine if something is new or not. Yet, the DVR would normally find the next airing and record it. Now that there is missing or wrong supplied information, should the priority system skip the first airing, all future airings will be skipped and the show will never be recorded.

I thought it was irritating when a timer would find episodes that didn't have a real description. Typically these show up as having a generic description and a "Originally aired" date of when the show first aired. The DVR plays it safe and sets to record them all, even if "New" is the preferred frequency. As it turns out, it's far less irritating getting more, than none at all.

I've corrected the issue by moving around timer priorities and setting some Manual timers. I wish it wasn't necessary to use Manual timers, but what else can one do when the EPG information is wrong more than two weeks in a row?
 

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Blowgun said:
I've corrected the issue by moving around timer priorities and setting some Manual timers. I wish it wasn't necessary to use Manual timers, but what else can one do when the EPG information is wrong more than two weeks in a row?
I use the Skip feature pretty frequently but I check my timers once a week, usually Friday or Saturday.

 

· DHMO User
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I check my 508 timers every time the guide is updated. I manually update the guide about every 3 days. I'm always finding something out of whack right after the guide is updated.

I currently have 44 timers. Almost every time the guide is updated there's at least one timer that comes up short finding all available airings. I do the 'frequency trick' to force the receiver to find the missing events. In all, it takes me about 30 minutes to make sure things are going to record properly. Wait a couple days, do another manual update and the process starts all over. I've been doing this for years and it's tiring.

Checking the timers is only part of it. If I change the priority of a timer, I have to make sure that all of the timer priorities stayed where they belong. I think it has to do with using the page up/down and the screen not properly getting refreshed, which ends up getting saved that way. I now make it a habit to take my time moving priorities around, but I always check them to make sure they're correct.

So, when this new issue with the second airings started showing up mislabeling new episodes as old and messing with the timers -- I thought, oh great, yet another timer problem. :lol:
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I forgot to address your comment about the Skip feature. You said that you check your timers once a week. Well, I think what you would find after a week is that your receiver didn't record the event. That's because even though there are other occurrences throughout the week of the same episode, even if the next airing is 2 hours later on the same day, only the first airing is considered New by the EPG. This makes the Skip feature and Priority system useless. The EPG is breaking functionality. And, as far as I know, these mistakes in the EPG effect everyone.
 

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Blowgun said:
I forgot to address your comment about the Skip feature. You said that you check your timers once a week. Well, I think what you would find after a week is that your receiver didn't record the event. That's because even though there are other occurrences throughout the week of the same episode, even if the next airing is 2 hours later on the same day, only the first airing is considered New by the EPG. This makes the Skip feature and Priority system useless. The EPG is breaking functionality. And, as far as I know, these mistakes in the EPG effect everyone.
Forgot to mention that when there is a show that has that "New" problem, I just record "All".

You're right. It's a pain. Essentially I use the "Skip" to get one recording of each episode. Most of the time, this is not a problem I have to cope with. But for some shows when it happens it can be a nightmare particularly with "Priority" choices.
 

· DHMO User
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I thought what Tribune received from the Networks was passed along to DISH? Although, that might explain why nearly every episode number is incorrect.

Please don't misunderstand, I do appreciate the guide info as it's better than nothing. It just boggles the mind why DISH permits this important part of their service to continue to be that inaccurate.

Week three, same problem as before. First airing is marked as New, second airing of the same episode only a couple hours later, marked as Old.

Using record All and Skip has it's own drawbacks. For example, in situations where the timer shows multiple airings, it means: Skipping, Update timers, Skipping, Update timers, Skipping, Update timers, etc. It seems to be that it would be easier to set the timer to record New, and Restore once. Or, in this situation, create a Manual timer.
 

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Blowgun said:
It just boggles the mind why DISH permits this important part of their service to continue to be that inaccurate.
Got a better source that charges a decent rate?

What boggles my mind is when DISH does not set their channels up correctly and provides no EPG or the wrong EPG for channels that their source, Tribune, has the right data for. If DISH cannot (or will not) keep their own house in order I really don't expect them to be going after Tribune to have them chase down errors in the Tribune data (bad 2nd airing info, wrong programs, etc.)
 

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James Long said:
Got a better source that charges a decent rate?

What boggles my mind is when DISH does not set their channels up correctly and provides no EPG or the wrong EPG for channels that their source, Tribune, has the right data for. If DISH cannot (or will not) keep their own house in order I really don't expect them to be going after Tribune to have them chase down errors in the Tribune data (bad 2nd airing info, wrong programs, etc.)
+1

What I have been saying for years to deaf ears at DISH.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
James Long said:
Got a better source that charges a decent rate?
Speaking of which, what is the rate that Tribune charges DISH for their service?

I suppose there must be an offset for the inclusion of that hideous EPG logo and the TVGN channel carriage.

James Long said:
What boggles my mind is when DISH does not set their channels up correctly and provides no EPG or the wrong EPG for channels that their source, Tribune, has the right data for. If DISH cannot (or will not) keep their own house in order I really don't expect them to be going after Tribune to have them chase down errors in the Tribune data (bad 2nd airing info, wrong programs, etc.)
How unfortunate that DISH is that apathetic to EPG inaccuracies. Sounds like a modern interpretation of Lily Tomlin's, "We don't care, we don't have to, we're the phone company."
 

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Blowgun said:
Speaking of which, what is the rate that Tribune charges DISH for their service?

I suppose there must be an offset for the inclusion of that hideous EPG logo and the TVGN channel carriage.

How unfortunate that DISH is that apathetic to EPG inaccuracies. Sounds like a modern interpretation of Lily Tomlin's, "We don't care, we don't have to, we're the phone company."
On the First Part: TVGuide told me directly when I started investigating this years ago, that "the logo is only there since it's their copy-written onscreen visual format of the guide and that they had nothing to do with the information." And DISH carrying the TVG channel once was said to be part of a package of channels that it was part of. We know how that works. Take them all or none.

Second Part: SPOT ON!!!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
FarmerBob said:
TVGuide told me directly when I started investigating this years ago, that "the logo is only there since it's their copy-written onscreen visual format of the guide....
Yet, the logo wasn't always part of the EPG and life as we know it didn't go extinct. :lol:

FarmerBob said:
...and that they had nothing to do with the information."
Whoa, time out. Are you saying that TVGuide is only responsible for the visual layout and has nothing to do with the contents of the EPG?
 

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Blowgun said:
Whoa, time out. Are you saying that TVGuide is only responsible for the visual layout and has nothing to do with the contents of the EPG?
Contents are fed from Tribune Media Services, Inc. which has some kind of automatic system to which the stations/networks themselves upload.
 

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Blowgun said:
Yet, the logo wasn't always part of the EPG and life as we know it didn't go extinct. :lol:
That was before the lawyers arrived.

Blowgun said:
Whoa, time out. Are you saying that TVGuide is only responsible for the visual layout and has nothing to do with the contents of the EPG?
TV Guide is part of Gemstar, who managed to get quite a few "interesting" or "insane" or "ridiculously obvious" patents such as a grid on a TV screen.

Want to make a device that uses a grid on TV screen? Have your lawyers call their lawyers.
 

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Blowgun said:
Whoa, time out. Are you saying that TVGuide is only responsible for the visual layout and has nothing to do with the contents of the EPG?
Basically, yes. The design of the EPG was too close to TVGuide's visual layout so they sued. In March 2004 they settled and DISH added the TV Guide logo to the guide (giving credit for the layout design) and eventually the TV Guide channel was added.

I don't believe the data has ever been sourced from Gemstar/TV Guide. The Tribune copyright was added to the guide data after TV Guide's logo was added to the EPG - presumably to give them credit (or blame) for the content of the guide data.

So layout is credited to "TV Guide", data is credited to "Tribune Media Services". All DISH has to do is match the correct TMS data to the correct channel ... and unfortunately DISH fails at that with many local channels. But in this case, it is probably TMS's failure to correctly mark the 2nd airing with the same data as the first.
 

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James Long said:
. . . I don't believe the data has ever been sourced from Gemstar/TV Guide. The Tribune copyright was added to the guide data after TV Guide's logo was added to the EPG - presumably to give them credit (or blame) for the content of the guide data.
Unfortunately, if it were TVG that supplied the data, we wouldn't be having the problems that we are. When I was really tracking this, TVG and TitanTV were spot on along with the stations themselves with the info. And any little change got caught and changed as it should while the DISH EPG retained the flawed info. The DISH EPG was never as accurate or "forthright" on updating. Or even getting the correct info in the first place . . . a lot.
 

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Day of air changes are an issue with satellite EPGs ... the best case is when the schedule is correct days or weeks in advance. For DISH, the overnight EPG update will give you the most up to date schedule for the next 2-9 days (depending on receiver). But last minute changes mess things up. Once a program becomes the "next" program on a channel the EPG will be updated, but I've still had weird recordings with the wrong name and missed recordings because the name changed between when the timer was set and the event I wanted aired.
 

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This has nothing to do with "Day of Air" changes. It is information in general before that moment of no return. It's the fact the info days out, that the nightly update should take care of, is what's wrong. I have hundreds of pictures, some within the the past few days, of the same program back to back with different info on the DISH EPG in each time slot and it's the same program. The only thing that has changed in reality is the time slot and the fact that under the "rules", it's no longer "new".

Being Human BBC for last night showed two different premier dates, same episode number. Airing one (the first and correct one) at 7pm MST on 2-25-12 and the other at 8:15pm 2-05-12. Same program, two different time slots, so why are the original air dates different? How can that physically be? This really plays havoc with timers. This was not a "day of air" change, it was up there since the listing first appeared. This is part what we are talking about.
 

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You mentioned "updating" ... that is what my last post referred to. When an event is changed and needs updating. The receiver EPG does not update immediately when changes are made to the data in the EPG stream (unless the event is the current or next event).

Having the wrong information from the start is simply a source area. And while it would be NICE if DISH would put some pressure on their source to get it right the problem remains at the source - not with DISH.
 
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