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Install help for a newbie, please!

863 Views 11 Replies 6 Participants Last post by  2dogz
Hello, this is my first post, and I have a few basic questions for my new install. Please be kind!

First, a bit of background. I recently purchased my first home. It's a bit of a fixer-upper, but that's cool as I'm young and was looking for a place like this one. It's got two stories, and the lower has a lowered ceiling with easily removable panels which makes it easy to get to all the wiring in the house. Anyway, it had been wired into every room with rg-59 wiring, so I promptly ripped all that out. I want to rewire it with "the good stuff", but not sure who makes the "good stuff", but from what I've seen it should be rg-6 quad, correct?

The D*TV guy came out yesterday to install the dish, and the best spot for it due to trees was in the backyard (an added plus as I didn't want it on my roof). It's on a pole about 6 feet off the ground, and it's the "slimline" model, with 4 outputs. The pole is roughly 100 feet from the house. I'd like to run all 4 lines into the house and bury that cable, but am unsure what type of cable can and can't be buried, and if it should be buried inside of something, such as pvc pipe or something.

Also, he didn't ground my dish, what's the best way to do this for a dish 100 feet form the house?

All 4 lines will run underground to the house, where they will go through the exterior brick wall and into the laundry room downstairs (again, it has a drop down ceiling). At this point, with only 2 receivers (one HR-20 and one older SD Tivo), I won't need any more than the 4 lines I already have, but if I ever need more, here is where I'll put a "splitter" or whatever the technical term is.

At this point, all wiring will be internal, and since I'm doing all the wiring now, I'm hoping to run 2 lines to every room that might one day have a TV (but again, only will be using 2 to living room and 2 to bedroom right now).

Is the same rg-6 quad shield what to use for these runs as well? Do I need to get special cable connectors for connecting the external runs to the internal runs in my laundry room? Do I need to get special wall sockets for the ends of the internal runs? I'm just under the impression that your signal transfer from dish to receiver will only be as good as the "weakest link" in your chain. Am I under the right impression with that?

A little help and guidance would be greatly appreciated. I would like to do this right the first time, but I don't have an endless budget having just purchased the house....

Thanks a bunch for any and all guidance you might have.
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matttyl315 said:
ut not sure who makes the "good stuff", but from what I've seen it should be rg-6 quad, correct?
No need for Quad unless [ and i tell this to all people ] you plan to run it by some cell phone towers and micro waves. But do make sure you get solid copper conductor wire. This is required by D*
matttyl315 said:
but am unsure what type of cable can and can't be buried, and if it should be buried inside of something, such as pvc pipe or something.
There is special 'flooded' cable which adds a layer of silicone in the wire in case it gets punctured. But it is narly to work with and if you burry some PVC pipe you can forgo that.
matttyl315 said:
Also, he didn't ground my dish, what's the best way to do this for a dish 100 feet form the house?
Normally one of the wires; most often dual wire; has a #17 ground wire attached to it. You can replace two of the runs with such wire.
matttyl315 said:
here is where I'll put a "splitter" or whatever the technical term is.
Multiswitch

matttyl315 said:
Is the same rg-6 quad shield what to use for these runs as well?
No just as much overkill there.

matttyl315 said:
Do I need to get special cable connectors for connecting the external runs to the internal runs in my laundry room?
Not really. D* recommends PPC EX6XL connections bot for inside and out. Make sure that all outside connectors [ at ground block and such ] are properly tightened and weatherproofed [ drip/service loops; dielectric grease ]

matttyl315 said:
Do I need to get special wall sockets for the ends of the internal runs?
Make sure the wall plates have high frequency barrels in them. They can be recognized with a colored rather then white dielectric.
matttyl315 said:
I'm just under the impression that your signal transfer from dish to receiver will only be as good as the "weakest link" in your chain. Am I under the right impression with that?
Yes.

Shameless plug: If you need wire or and other supply feel free to PM me.
"Compression" connectors.
Quad shield is a bit like "monster cables", in that most of us don't use it. If you are next to a TV transmitter, then maybe.

Belden solid copper core should be/is fine.

"The splitter", would be a multi-switch, since your can't split a SAT signal.

If you're going to bury the cable, I'd go with 1 1/2" conduit [I did on my third round of digging it up].
Congratulations on your new house, and welcome to the forums.

You want to use RG6 with solid copper center conductor (as opposed to copper clad steel which is common). You may or may not need quad shield, probably not, but it won't hurt to have it.

With only the two DVRs, you simply use barrel connectors to cross-connect the lines from the dish to the lines going to the rooms with the DVRs. Once you grow beyond that, you need a multiswitch to get more connections. The Zinwell WB68 is the specific multiswitch you will need. Depending on how long the coax runs are from the utility room to the various tv locations, you might also need a power inserter/phase locker from Sonora. In that case, you will also need power available where your coax cross-connects are located.

Carl
Mertzen said:
Make sure the wall plates have high frequency barrels in them. They can be recognized with a colored rather then white dielectric.
This is the only part of your very good reply that I can "pick on".
Sure if I had to pick up a barrel/wall plate, I'd go for the blue, but whether the dielectric is white, blue, red, pink, green, ??? the connector will have the same frequency response.
Thank you all so much for your great responses!

I went by my local Home Depot, and they have 500 foot spools of RG-6, but I'm not sure if it's got steel in it or not, how can I tell? Is there a specific brand that I should be looking for?

Dielectic grease, what is it, where can I get it, and is this needed if all external (buried wires) won't be terminated until they are inside the house?

Grounding block, do I need one? If I ground the dish itself, (via grounding rod in the ground) is that enough? If one is needed, it will be inside the utility room where the external lines end, and can be easily grounded on a cold water pipe. Any brand that is recommended? I guess one of these could take the place of "barrel connectors" for connecting external lines to the internal ones.

Thanks again for all the help, this weekend is going to be fun! My goal is to have it all done and ready to go for Sunday's NFL games (too bad I'm a Skins' fan and they play tonight).
matttyl315 said:
but I'm not sure if it's got steel in it or not, how can I tell? Is there a specific brand that I should be looking for?
Look at the center conductor. If it is all copper you are good. Copper clad steel will have a steel center which you can see surrounded by copper. Brands: Belden, Perfect Vision. Eagle Aspen

matttyl315 said:
Dielectic grease, what is it, where can I get it, and is this needed if all external (buried wires) won't be terminated until they are inside the house?
It is a smooth, easily spreadable dielectric compound uuseful as a protectorant for electrical circuitry. Not needed for inside connectors.

matttyl315 said:
Grounding block, do I need one? If I ground the dish itself, (via grounding rod in the ground) is that enough?
Yes to do the job up to D* spec you'd need one. Not sure if driving a rod in the ground will consist as a NEC approved ground.

matttyl315 said:
If one is needed, it will be inside the utility room where the external lines end, and can be easily grounded on a cold water pipe.
As long as you can verify the cold water pipe all the way to where it enters the house that would be correct.
matttyl315 said:
Any brand that is recommended? I guess one of these could take the place of "barrel connectors" for connecting external lines to the internal ones.
No real brands on these, just make sure it passes up to 3Ghz. And yes it can replace the barrels.
Normal way to ground a dish is bond the ODU with #17 wire to the ground block and then run#10 CCS to the house ground. #10 is 30 ft max. If you ODU would be within 30 ft you can run #10 straight to the house ground.
Another question on grounding....

I've done some research on here, and have some of my questions already answered.

The installer ran some dual RG-6 that has a grounding line on it as well. The two RG-6 lines are connected to the LNBs, but the grounding line is just sitting there. What's the best way to attached the grounding line to the dish itself?

Fast forward roughly 100 feet to the entry point in the house.....

I'd like to run all 4 lines off the dish as well as the grounding line into the house (utility room) to the grounding block, and then seal the hole with something somewhat permanent to prevent water and such from entering the house. Is it ok to have my grounding block in the house? From here, it will be attached to the main ground in the house, as it's right there.

I'd like to do it this way so that all of my internal runs can easily be attached to the grounding block, and not have to be run outside (through the hole I filled in).

Also, where can I find a quad grounding block that's of good quality? I can't seem to find one anywhere!!
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matttyl315 said:
What's the best way to attached the grounding line to the dish itself?
Self tapping screw. Straight into the pipe. Uncover the copper on the #17. Make loop and tighten the screw.


matttyl315 said:
and then seal the hole with something somewhat permanent to prevent water and such from entering the house.
Bushing.
and silicone

matttyl315 said:
Is it ok to have my grounding block in the house?
Yes

matttyl315 said:
Also, where can I find a quad grounding block that's of good quality? I can't seem to find one anywhere!!
solidsignal.com and techtoolsupply.com or PM me :)
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matttyl315 said:
I went by my local Home Depot, and they have 500 foot spools of RG-6, but I'm not sure if it's got steel in it or not, how can I tell? Is there a specific brand that I should be looking for?
Go over to the hardware section and find the strongest magnet they have. Bring it back to the roll of cable and see if if sticks. All of the spools of RG-6 that I have found at Home Depot and Lowe's is copper clad steel. My local Lowe's does have some 100' coils of RG-6 which seem ok. You'll find those in the section with the A/V accessories. They are a little pricey, about $30.00 for 100'.
The RG6 cable I find at my local Home Depot in Silver Spring is copper coated steel, not D* approved. Better to find the good stuff at an electrical supply store. Belden 7915A Duobond Plus for regular coax (usually all you need) or Belden 7916A quad shielded for extra RF shielding. Both cost a few pennies a foot of each other.

When you place your order, you can specify Belden 7916 or equivalent at the counter. But be careful as counter personnel do screw up. Bring a small magnet, like a fridge magnet to test for steel conductor. Can be hard to tell visually, depending on your eyes or the lighting. You can probably get the best prices on the internet. Just Google Belden 7916, for instance.

Find grounding blocks, connectors and tools at solidsignal.com, for one popular source. They have the quad ground block. But for D* approval, they also carry a dual block with wide band spec, you'll just need two (D* will smile on you).
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