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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
My across-the-road neighbor had an HD upgrade scheduled for this AM, so I wandered over to make sure everything was going to turn out OK. This is a very large house, biggest in the neighborhood, and and has a separate guest house, with a three big NEC 720p plasmas and three smaller SD-connected flat screens, which were not to be upgraded.

We're Rolling Right Along

The installer arrived about 10 AM with three H23's, shortly after I finished scoping out the possibilities for a separate dish for the guest house because of the distance from the dish (200'), which were nil without some work because of the exterior construction materials. He advised he was already running late because of required time in the office and that this was the first of six installs scheduled for the day. No doubt it's the NFL DirecTV last minute rush.

We quickly got the SL5 installed in the same location as the existing Phase III on the side of the house. There was also a dual LNB round dish for two of the SD receivers, so he ran all six dish lines to a WB68. He was dubious about the LOS, because of overhanging branches, but pointing to the Phase III, now on the ground, I convinced him to proceed. His method of aligning for the Ka's consisted simply of peaking the 101 on his Bird Dog without the use of the fine adjustment bolts. I'm just observing and helping at this point. The 119's required a tilt adjustment, which he did reluctantly, because he'd been told by his supervisor that he didn't need to worry about the 119 LOS for the SL5 anymore. I let that slide for the time being. Then the "fun" began.

The Plot Thickens

After firing up the receivers, they all showed pretty good 101/110/119 sig's, even the one 200' away, but nothing on 99(a) or 103(b) except sig's in the 20's on 103(b) tp's 10 and 12. He wasn't real sure what was actually on 99(a) and 103(b) and was pretty much ready to activate the receivers and hit the road. After convincing him we had a problem (the 771's on the HD channels convinced him), we tried peaking the dish by cellphone relay. He was at the dish, and I could tell he wasn't using the fine adjustment bolts, but was moving the dish by hand on the mount while watching the 101 on his Bird Dog plugged into an extra port on the WB68.

So we swapped positions, and the most I could get with the fine adjustments was 40's on those two 103(b) tp's; everything else HD was zero. Obviously there was an additional problem. About this time his phone started ringing re: his other two AM appointments.

He was sure it was that tree branch blocking the 99's and 103's, but not the 101's. I talked him into bypassing the WB68, without much improvement. Then I talked him into replacing the WNC with another LNB. The new (?) Eagle Aspen showed absolutely zero on ALL satellites. About this time he started talking to himself on the way to and from the truck, in between more phone calls as his rapidly evaporating day started pressing him.

From Bad to Worse

He put the original WNC back on, and now we were missing all the 101 evens as well as the 99's and 103's. He starting to get a little nuts now.....more muttering. So he decides to run four new cables about 75' to the new ground block at the service entrance. That fixed the 101 even's problem, so we were back to where we started. Now it's about 1:30 PM. More phone calls.....

So he decides to activate the three H23's, which had already downloaded the latest software, just to make sure there wasn't some weird software/activation issue preventing reception of the HD satellites. That ate up most of another hour, since two of them wouldn't activate right away, requiring lots of time on the phone, which was now also getting call waiting calls about his PM installs. I was meanwhile observing that the activated receiver still had no HD sig's.

......and Worse

Being convinced that that tree branch was the problem all along, he now decides to do a pole mount further down the hill, although now we're getting into possible LOS problems with more distant trees. It's gonna be close there. Pole comes out of the truck, and he makes a point out of the end by mashing it flat. Then he drives it into the ground in the new spot. I'm not saying doodly squat about concrete at this late point. I just want to see what's gonna happen with the sig's, but lo if he didn't install an 1 1/2" pole! Back to the truck, more self discussion. More phone calls.

I talked him into yet another LNB, which he accidentally dropped in the driveway, and I installed it on the new, slightly wobbly pole mount (same hole in the dirt) while he connected all the barrels, necessary since the 75' of new cable missed reaching to the new pole mount location by < 5'. More muttering. He's worried about the distant trees.

Light at the End of the Tunnel Leads to Solution

(no oncoming trains)

Back to the receivers, and we've got exactly the same signals. He knows it's those trees, but I convinced him that was impossible, they're different trees, and talked him into making me up a straight run to the nearest receiver, a good 100' away through a window.

Voila! High 80's to mid-90's on 99(a) and 103(b). Now we know it's the cables, not the trees. Finally! Tracing our six cables back from the WB68, we find that two of them are chopped off in the bushes and don't connect to anything. Hmmmm. Six receivers, four remaining cables. So I propose that we now go on a treasure hunt to find what I believe to be a non-compliant multi-switch somewhere under this giant house, since all three receivers are doing the exact same thing. We locate multiple crawl space openings, so we start to trace the wires and I find they first enter a small basement room full of water heaters hidden on the low side of the house. Way back in the corner is a small distribution box with a bunch of telephone wires and RG6 going into it. Inside the box: a Terk BMS58 multi-switch!!!

Swapped the WB68 into place and everything works. Elapsed time: 6.5 hrs. I'll be moving the dish back to the original location sometime next week. My brain is tired, and I don't really want to go help any more neighbors any time soon. She was a mighty fine looking gal, though...... :)
 

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First off, I am very impressed with your well formated post! Most people rant and it is darn near impossible to figure out what is going on.

What an experience though! I am shocked the installer did not check the lines...that should have been done no matter what in the beginning. What do you do I guess, glad you got it figured out. It's sad it is like this as imagine what the same experience would have been like if you had no knowledge of the technologies and just accepted whatever the installer said!

and HR23?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Sorry! I fixed that. Anyway, it's the BBC-less H21, whatever the model number is supposed to be. Yes, it was quite a day. I got the call that he was on the way just before breakfast and had nothing to eat all day, so I was a little done in by the whole ordeal.

We did look at the existing cable, and it was high quality solid copper center conductor stuff. We just didn't notice that two of them had been chopped off in the bushes, right where they entered the house on the other side of the ground block. We figured they were all home runs to the receiver locations. There was also a dual LNB round dish for two of the SD receivers, so initially, it all seemed to make sense.

What he would have said was it was a LOS issue and moved on.....
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Grentz said:
.....No big deal, just don't want to start people off on the DOES IT EXIST tangents :lol:
And that's exactly what would have happened.....
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
joe diamond said:
Six jobs! So he is late for all of them except the first one. Ya gotta wonder.

Joe
He was late for that one, too.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
NOT tomorrow, please!!! I'm taking the day off from watching for DirecTV trucks. But I do have one from last month at the next door neighbor's.....also a very spiffy lady.....
 

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K4SMX, without your assistance your neighbor would probably have had months of problems, repeat calls, frustration, and excuses. They may have never received a satisfactory resolution. I hope they appreciate how lucky they are.

DirecTV seems to have a MAJOR problem with installers not following the recommended installation procedures. The customer should be well informed on the installation procedures if they so desire. This can be easily accomplished by letting anyone view the training videos which are presently blocked. When the installer obviously does not follow proper procedures, there should be a special phone number to call to discuss this information directly someone at DirecTV who can rectify the problem.

All installers should be required to have a sighting compass/inclinometer such as the Suunto Tandem, and know how to use it. This will stop all the nonsense about line-of-sight issues.

Bad cables and connectors can be easily checked by many different simple and fast techniques. One easy way is to connect a shorting plug at one end and measure the resistance at the other end using a multimeter. Remove the shorting plug and again check using the multimeter. Only takes a few seconds and can save hours.

"Do it right the first time" is more than a neat cliche. The true costs to DirecTV of what would have happened without your assistance would have been long delays for the customer to have a correctly operating system, if that ever happened. There would have been hours of wasted time, and possibly the permanent loss of a customer, who would have told many friends about their horrible experience. These huge costs can never be accurately measured, but their impact can have a gigantic effect on bottom line profit.
 

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K4SMX said:
NOT tomorrow, please!!! I'm taking the day off from watching for DirecTV trucks. But I do have one from last month at the next door neighbor's.....also a very spiffy lady.....
I am starting to get a picture of why you live (at least part time) there.

It's your thread and I can hardly wait for another chapter of, "K4SMX And The Crystal Dish" or "Stew And The Neighbor." :lol:
 

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Wonderful job K4SMX. The next chapter in your saga should be a follow up on the next four customers the tech was scheduled to see that day. What they each were told about their installer not showing up, when is their next installation appointment window, how many credits did D* offer the lucky few who even knew to ask for compensation. These poorly trained installers must be costing D*, this one episode alone could have amounted to $400.00 in credits and poor customer relations with new or existing customers. I have been with D* for a very long time and generally quite happy with their service and that happiness is due partly to me understanding more about their equipment than their own people. $400.00 could have trained a couple of people quite well.
 

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K4SMX said:
NOT tomorrow, please!!! I'm taking the day off from watching for DirecTV trucks. But I do have one from last month at the next door neighbor's.....also a very spiffy lady.....
Now Stew! I hope you are an equal-opportunity helper - surely there are some good looking guys who are equally clueless and need help. My dad for one - he had to call me on my cell phone yesterday when Mother hit the wrong button on the TV remote (even though he taped over all the buttons except the 'on' one), and the TV would not work. I had to try and remember (from GA) what their set-up (in VA) looked like, and walk him through several steps, from cycling through the 'input' choices of their TV and re-setting the H20-700.

You should offer to be a part time employee for the installer co - sure would save them a lot of $$$, but would not give you nearly as much laughs. I hope you let Molly go with you for protection from the rabid installers!
 

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K4SMX said:
NOT tomorrow, please!!! I'm taking the day off from watching for DirecTV trucks. But I do have one from last month at the next door neighbor's.....also a very spiffy lady.....
Several things to point out here...

1. Your a GREAT neighbor! (even if she was cute)
2. Well written report
3. If the local Installer had any sense he would hire you to trouble shoot tough installs and to do some ride alongs to show installers the right way to do things!

Me hat's off to ya! :)

Post Script Edit... I sincerely hope someone from DirecTV reads this post.. It makes some very interesting points and could also provide some insites as to how they could help installers do a better job.
 

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Anyone who wonders why the installer did the stupid things he did should learn from one important fact here:

The installer was assigned SIX (!!!) jobs that day, PLUS was kept at his shop until late in the morning.

At the very, very best, these jobs take 3 hours to be done right. If *anything* isn't perfect, add 1-2 hours. *Assuming* everything was perfect, this installer was given 18 hours of work to do, NOT including drive-time, or, heaven forbid, a LUNCH!

So, why was he given 18-30 hours worth of work for a single day? Because the HSP has less than half the installers that they need. Why is that? Because the pay is so low, and the abuse is so high, that turn-over is well over 50% per month, which also explains why this guy had next to zero training, which was obvious by his lack of understanding of dish alignment or cable paths.

Don't worry, though. This installer will probably quit before October, so he won't screw up that many more installs. Of course, the next guy will be worse...
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
The primary purpose of the report was to give an example of why customers have such a hard time getting installs accomplished on a scheduled time and date. All it takes is one job like this to blow a six customer schedule completely away. The secondary purpose was to show that there is still a real lack of basic skills and practices among "experienced" installers. This guy was no "newbie;" he was here in my neighborhood last year. He'll probably still be here in October, aligning SL5's without using the fine adjustment bolts. I don't know how long he's been doing HD installs, but certainly in the last 12 months he's got to have done a bunch.

As far as the problems we encountered, they could have happened to anyone. Most upgrades would probably not have run aground like this, with hidden components and hidden cabling modifications, which didn't lead you to think of possible hidden components. I guess the moral of the story is never take anything for granted when doing an upgrade with multiple receivers: verify there's no pre-existing multi-switches, even if it doesn't appear there are any. At least follow the dish lines until they leave a common point. That would have saved us a lot of time.

This guy was ready to no LOS this job on multiple occasions, once he realized there were HD reception problems. The only reason I could talk him into doing further troubleshooting was he couldn't explain why we were getting signals on two 103(b) tp's if there was no LOS. He didn't know the difference between 103(a) and (b), until I explained it to him, since he never looks at the satellite signal strength menu pages. Once he had rough-aligned the 101 on his Bird Dog, to him, a 771 on an HD channel means no LOS. Don't know what he would've done if there had been no trees on the property..... :)

A few other observations:

  • I could almost guarantee you this guy is not a DirecTV customer, certainly not an HD customer. How else can you explain his lack of understanding about what's on what satellite signal strength menu page. If they can't effectively include this basic general info in training, DirecTV should seriously consider making HD subscription a requirement, absent LOS issues, and make it financially feasible to be a requirement. People who actually use the company's equipment usually make much better tech's.

  • What would it really cost financially and wouldn't it simultaneously benefit in customer goodwill to issue these guys company-owned, Ka-capable signal meters as a matter of course so they can rapidly and effectively align the Ka/Ku dish instead of dithering? They obviously don't like dithering or use it in practice in all cases. They like their meters, they're just not the right meters anymore.

  • Overscheduling needs to be brought under control. This has got to be costing DirecTV millions in a variety of ways, including unwarranted no LOS's and shoddy installation work leading to long-term customer dissatisfaction. Higher pay = more installers = less jobs per day. Add better quality training and more company QC checks. Don't rely solely on Installation Verification software. They find ways around that.

BTW, this guy did have a sighting compass/inclinometer, but I guess he didn't know how to use the inclinometer, because there was clearly not an LOS issue with the pole mount location, even though he was pretty sure there was. The reason he put the pole mount there was because there really was nowhere else.
 

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Basic training for installers; give them an inexspensive HD TV, basic HD tuner, better yet an HR, and a Slimline. Tell them they can have DirecTV HD service and a job once they have it installed and activated, with supporting images of the sat signal strenght screens as proof. :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
:lol: :lol: :lol: That would have to be verified with an on site investigation. A lot of these guys would probably sell the equipment on eBay to get grocery money for their families.....
 
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