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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Jeremy W said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolffpack View Post
Now I'd guess the term "closed captioning display capability" means it also must work. I doubt the HR20 would pass a FCC review due to the fact it has the capability but isn't working.​
The snippet you posted doesn't say anything about a satellite TV receiver. It says that a digital TV receiver must have CC capability, but at this time the HR20 is not a digital TV receiver.
If OTA tuners were active, it would be a Digital TV receiver wouldn't it? It does have Digital TV tuners in it, doesn't it?

So is it your position that SAT receivers are not required to supply CC?
 

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closed captioning in HR20 is a joke. Last night, my wife and I were watching a recorded show and the cc is mixed between Spanish and English. In one sentence, it displays in both languages. This is with the latest software update.
 

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cuibap said:
closed captioning in HR20 is a joke. Last night, my wife and I were watching a recorded show and the cc is mixed between Spanish and English. In one sentence, it displays in both languages. This is with the latest software update.
What channel...
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
cuibap said:
closed captioning in HR20 is a joke. Last night, my wife and I were watching a recorded show and the cc is mixed between Spanish and English. In one sentence, it displays in both languages. This is with the latest software update.
Spanglish? :grin:
 

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Earl Bonovich said:
What channel...
I have identical problems since day one. I only observe this problem on MPEG4 channels. I am not sure if this is my illusion, but I think it is especially bad on my NBC local HD. I used to watch Jay Leno with no sound in my bed room while my wife is sleeping. I haven't been able to watch Jay Leno for three weeks. I have replaced my falling asleep ritual with MPEG2 channel.
 

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Wolffpack said:
If OTA tuners were active, it would be a Digital TV receiver wouldn't it? It does have Digital TV tuners in it, doesn't it?

So is it your position that SAT receivers are not required to supply CC?
I suspect the CC issue is only with MPEG4 encoded programs. I don't have problems on MPEG2 channels. My guess is that when OTA is enabled, the CC with OTA channels (in MPEG2, of course) will work.

I want the CC to work in FF, too. I am adjusting to live without it, but I still miss it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
To anyone, is CC working properly on non-MPEG4 channels? Are the MPEG4 stations the current problem? Also, anyone with non-DVR units (H20) does CC work properly for you on MPEG4 HD locals?
 

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Wolffpack said:
To anyone, is CC working properly on non-MPEG4 channels? Are the MPEG4 stations the current problem? Also, anyone with non-DVR units (H20) does CC work properly for you on MPEG4 HD locals?
No, CC does not work correctly with a system that does not have MPEG-4/HD Locals...mine.

It is in a very primitive state of operation (CC). I tried to watch it a bit today, just so I could answer this question if it came up. It's rubbish. Misses a ton of dialogue, starts and stops in spurts. Looks like it has a terrible "overrun" problem. I tried it on CNN and MSNBC with identical results.

Suffice it to say, it needs a LOT of work.

With all the other things that need to be worked out, I'm willing to wait, but others have understandably different priorities.

I'll keep checking it after each update, and if the thread (or the sticky above) is still alive, I report on it.
 

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I don't use closed captioning, but I have played around with it on the HR20. I believe I was just on an MPEG2 channel, but the captioning worked perfectly.

On the H20, captioning works perfectly on MPEG4 channels as well.
 

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Wolffpack said:
To anyone, is CC working properly on non-MPEG4 channels? Are the MPEG4 stations the current problem? Also, anyone with non-DVR units (H20) does CC work properly for you on MPEG4 HD locals?
I have complained about this since I got my HR20 about two weeks ago. The CC hardly ever works right on HD locals. It is fairly good on the "other" SD channels but frequently goes haywire, starts and stops in bursts, runs ahead or behind the video, lines will be displayed so fast they're useless on the HD movie and premium channels. It is a real mess and for me CC is not an option as my hearing is gone in one ear and down to 40% in the other.

I watch the same HD and SD channels via Brighthouse cable and it is no problem or at the very least, a good 1000% better than the HR20 at present after 4 software updates.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Well I guess the message to the HR20 development staff is, do you want to fix CC on the HR20 or do you want the FCC to make you fix CC on the HR20?
 

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Dusty said:
I suspect the CC issue is only with MPEG4 encoded programs. I don't have problems on MPEG2 channels. My guess is that when OTA is enabled, the CC with OTA channels (in MPEG2, of course) will work.

I want the CC to work in FF, too. I am adjusting to live without it, but I still miss it.
CC is very bad on MPEG2 HD channels such as HBO HD. Actually, I see no difference in the quality of CC on MPEG4 vs. MPEG2 HD channels. Frequently completely garbled to the point of not being able to even guess what the words are if I wasn't hearing the words (and translating for my wife who needs CC). If it isn't garbled then any of the following may occur (alone or in combination):

1. Only every other line of CC shows up.
2. Letters truncated at the end of a line (sometimes half a letter shows up).
3. Lines of text overwrite each other - sometimes from the beginning - sometimes in the middle.
4. As soon as a line of text appears it disappears - so it is only visible for about a second.

In short, CC needs major work - for such an important feature it is hard to believe anyone did any kind of testing of this before the box was released.

On SD channels, it mostly works although sometimes item #2 above occurs, and sometimes item #4. Although a workaround for the SD channels is to use the regular video input on my TV and let my TV decode the CC - and then it works perfectly. So that solves the problem for SD channels, but for HD channels it is useless - and that's the major reason for getting this box obviously!

At this point my wife is heavily pushing me to return the box to D* and get our $300 back. If it weren't for the CC problems (and lack of D* interest in getting them fixed - calls to Customer Support claim no one else has reported any problems and "it must be a problem with the source") - I would be relatively happy with the box. But for my wife the box has been a disaster from day 1. I'm trying to be patient but my wife is not and it is getting me to the point where I wish I had never gotten this box.
 

· Large Hairless ApeCutting Edge: ECHELON '08
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I'm seeing closed captioning issues on some of the HD as well as SD channels.

My main complaints (I don't have MPEG4 so this is all MPEG2) is that on HD Closed Captioning is missed. On SD letters and words are cut off (especially on the Frutiger1 (sp?) font). The timing of when captions show up and for how long is non-standard and jarring.

As for the law: http://www.fcc.gov/Bureaus/Engineering_Technology/Orders/2000/fcc00259.txt

The Television Decoder Circuitry Act of 1990
("TDCA") requires generally that television receivers contain circuitry to decode and display closed
captioning. The introduction of digital television requires the Commission to update its rules to fulfill its
continuing obligations under the TDCA to ensure that closed captioning service continues to be available to
consumers.

Decoders must support the standard, large, and small caption sizes and must allow the caption provider
to choose a size and allow the viewer to choose an alternative size.

Decoders must support the eight fonts listed in EIA-708. Caption providers may specify 1 of these 8 font
styles to be used to write caption text. Decoders must include the ability for consumers to choose among
the eight fonts. The decoder must display the font chosen by the caption provider unless the viewer
chooses a different font.

Decoders must implement the same 8 character background colors as those that Section 9 requires be
implemented for character foreground (white, black, red, green, blue, yellow, magenta and cyan).

Decoders must implement options for altering the appearance of caption character edges.

Decoders must display the color chosen by the caption provider, and must allow viewers to override the
foreground and/or background color chosen by the caption provider and select alternate colors.

Decoders must be capable of decoding and processing data for the six standard services, but information
from only one service need be displayed at a given time.

Decoders must include an option that permits a viewer to choose a setting that will display captions as
intended by the caption provider (a default). Decoders must also include an option that allows a viewer's
chosen settings to remain until the viewer chooses to alter these settings, including during periods when
the television is turned off.

Cable providers and other multichannel video programming distributors must transmit captions in a
format that will be understandable to this decoder circuitry in digital cable television sets when
transmitting programming to digital television devices
.

All digital television receivers with picture screens in the 4:3 aspect ratio measuring at least 13 inches
diagonally, digital television receivers with picture screens in the 16:9 aspect ratio measuring 7.8 inches
or larger vertically (this size corresponds to the vertical height of an analog receiver with a 13 inch
diagonal), and all DTV tuners, shipped in interstate commerce or manufactured in the United States must
comply with the minimum decoder requirements we are adopting here
.
http://www.fcc.gov/cgb/dro/caption.html
 

· Large Hairless ApeCutting Edge: ECHELON '08
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Wolffpack said:
Well I guess the message to the HR20 development staff is, do you want to fix CC on the HR20 or do you want the FCC to make you fix CC on the HR20?
All it will take is about 5 complaints total for the FCC to open an investigation. DirecTV could be fined for each tuner sent out that is not properly decoding closed captioning--not just for OTA but for any channel on the box. My guess is they do not want this to happen and are working on fixing the problems.

D* seems to have ASKED for the thread regarding captioning to have been created here that Earl then thumbtacked last week, so I have some confidence that they ARE working on the issue.
 

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Capmeister said:
All it will take is about 5 complaints total for the FCC to open an investigation. DirecTV could be fined for each tuner sent out that is not properly decoding closed captioning--not just for OTA but for any channel on the box. My guess is they do not want this to happen and are working on fixing the problems.

D* seems to have ASKED for the thread regarding captioning to have been created here that Earl then thumbtacked last week, so I have some confidence that they ARE working on the issue.
Obviously, you have NEVER dealt with the FCC before.

You can be sure with a new product that has flashable firmware, where the company can demonstrate they are actively working on a solution (to many problems), that the FCC is NOT going to be fining anyone, much less threatening them. D* would be lucky to get a letter of inquiry, much less a notice of violation.

So, at this point, save your time for working with D* via the forums. The FCC will be nothing but a black hole, unless you can demonstrate in great volume that D* is unresponsive and deliberately (not via incompetent fixes) in non-compliance.

That's how it works, take it from someone who has had dealings with them on many occasions.

They have no time or staff for this kind of enforcement (non-deliberate/developmental issues).
 

· Large Hairless ApeCutting Edge: ECHELON '08
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Jeremy W said:
I don't use closed captioning, but I have played around with it on the HR20. I believe I was just on an MPEG2 channel, but the captioning worked perfectly.

On the H20, captioning works perfectly on MPEG4 channels as well.
I promise you that closed captioning isn't working perfectly on MPEG2 channels on the HR20. ;)

Also, it didn't work 100% perfect on the HR20 in that the default font could be overridden sometimes, and on certain OTA channels for me the black background took over the entire line of screen.
 

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Wolffpack said:
To anyone, is CC working properly on non-MPEG4 channels? Are the MPEG4 stations the current problem? Also, anyone with non-DVR units (H20) does CC work properly for you on MPEG4 HD locals?
Mine works fine with MPEG2 channels. The problem I have seems to appear only on MPEG4 HD locals.
 
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