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· Banned
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Figured I start a different thread instead of polluting the already polluted 0xDC thread. Reading through that thread you have the Earl/Jeremy W/DTV camp that says it's better to fix a problem quickly even it if may create another problems. Then you have the WANDERER/BillyT2002/tstarn camp that says he, yes fix problems, but don't create others.

Personally I agree with WANDERER's camp. If, as Earl has stated, fixing the problems created by this new version were to delay the version a week or two, why not do that? The last version was only released 7 days ago. And what new bugs did 0xD8 create that 0XDC corrected?

If we're talking about something being rushed to market, I think both the R15 and HR20 fit into that category. But now I'm seeing this rush of new software updates being spewed forth by DTV on the HR20 side that seems to be creating as many problems as are being fixed. Maybe it's time DTV takes a deep breath and regroup....kind of a "time out".

Look at the software release schedule for the R15:
  • 1044 - Original Release or very close to it.
  • 108A - 10/09/2005
  • 109A - 12/26/2005
  • 109F - 02/10/2006
  • 10A3 - 02/21/2006
  • 10AF - 03/15/2006
  • 10B8 - 04/11/2006
  • 10C8 - 07/03/2006
  • 10D3 - 08/14/2006
  • 10E8 - 10/09/2006

Now let's look at the HR20:
  • Original Release ????
  • 0xBE - 09/01/2006
  • 0xCC - 09/16/2006
  • 0xD1 - 09/26/2006
  • 0xD8 - 10/04/2006
  • 0xDC - 10/11/2006

In a period of a month and a half, the HR20 has received 5 updates. It took almost 6 months for the R15 to receive 5 updates. Is that good or bad? I think bad. At the frequency of software releases for the HR20 anyone with software development experience knows that's not enough time to properly test a release candidate. It's also not even enough time to identify problems created with the new release before the next release is going into testing or being released.

I believe DTV is feeling the heat and I think they're creating even more heat by rushing software updates out way too fast. The tact of releasing a new version, and saying this fixes all problems (when they know it creates just as many) cannot keep going.

Of course I could be total wrong about everything I just stated. I know there are some out there that are happy with these updates and have no problems with their units. To those subscribers I say good for you!!! Then there are those of you that fell you had a working unit and now you don't. Well, all I can say to the later group is stop *****ing!!! :rolleyes: Just as others have stated here.

I'll end in saying I'm not *****ing about anything. I'm reviewing facts and stating my opinion regarding those facts. I've NEVER see software releases issued for any product with this frequency. Someone at DTV is feeling heat. It's just they're creating more heat than they are handling by releasing updates at this schedule.

Oh, please, no need to mention daily MS security updates....that's comparing apples to oranges here and we all know MS security updates come out daily. Why's that? Because MS has problems, and every day some 16 year old in some Eastern Block country finds a new exploit. So please don't even go there.

Also, if I grouped some users in a category in that first paragraph that they don't feel they belong, I apologize.
 

· Beware the Attack Basset
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Wolffpack said:
In a period of a month and a half, the HR20 has received 5 updates. It took almost 6 months for the R15 to receive 5 updates. Is that good or bad?
Remember that the HR20 still isn't ready for general distribution. The apologists will tell you that DirecTV was "forced" by some external concern(s) to rush the machine out. I'm of a mind that they were running out of HR10s.

Now that the cow is out of the barn, the longer they wait to try things, the greater the number of subscribers impacted.
At the frequency of software releases for the HR20 anyone with software development experience knows that's not enough time to properly test a release candidate. It's also not even enough time to identify problems created with the new release before the next release is going into testing or being released.
The HR20 is still in alpha development state. Every product is there at some point. That the HR20 has substantially replaced the HR10 in retail distribution is equivalent to a modest thermonuclear device detonated on DirecTV's foot. As with other recent nuclear tests, the bulk of the fallout will not be of the radioactive variety.

It is too late to close the barn door, so they need to swallow their pride and start whipping out solutions in record time. If they can't appease the subscribers with stable fixes, at least they can wow them with an unprecedented flurry of activity.
 

· AllStar
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I don't have my HR20 yet, but anyway, here is my opinion ...

If each new release fixes more problems than it creates than I would say keep them coming in this rapid manner.

Obviously, once they get to stable release, the testing will need to be more in-depth but it just has to be different when you are trying to patch a release that is already known to exhibit major bugs. In general, place alot more emphasis on release testing if your current release is performing well, but feel some sense of urgency to get releases out if it is not.

In then end, I think they will get to a stable release quicker by doing things the way they have been doing them.

It may seem a little bit uncontrolled, but I commend the developer's management for having the courage to let them proceed in this manner. Perhaps the DVR was released before the software was ready, but at this point, that is completely irrelevant.

Any cookie-cutter IT manager can put his fist down and come down on his people when quick releases cause bugs, and drag the development process to a virtual standstill. It takes a little more guts (and a better understanding of the big picture) to get out of your team's way and let them rapidly release fixes.

Just my two cents, and maybe I wil feel differently if DirecTV ever actually gets an HR20 in stock for me. Heck, it's only been a month since I paid for it!
 

· Banned
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I'm glad DirecTV is vigilant about getting the HR20 running well as quickly as possible. It's clear they care, and I feel they will fix the bugs in the software.
 

· The Shadow Knows!
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I think you have a point, Wolffpack, but as for me I would like to feel that there is progress being made on all the problems out there. I understand there are people who have been negatively impacted by this release (I don't even know if I'm one of them yet) but I tend to fall in the camp of, "hey, our concerns are being heard and it's not going to be 3 months before they're addressed... that's a good thing" camp.

It would be a great idea if you could get the latest build whenever you want but that would put pressure on D* to make every build stable, and it's likely they aren't. I mean, seriously, look at the ones that make it out and just imagine the ones that don't.

What would make some sense is if you could roll back to the most recent update in some way. This is hardly unheard of; both Linux and Windows have facilities like this in their OS's. I can't imagine that there isn't enough drive space to store one previous version.

At least until the flurry of activity is over, I think it's a good idea anyway.

I remain supportive and satisfied for now.
 

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I haven't read through the entire 0XDC thread but what new problems exactly did it cause.
 

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Rapid-Fire updates are not really a good thing. However, black screen programs (BSOD) are really bad. The current FF/RW issue is bad and should get a quick fix. The Caller ID problems can wait a while.

It seems like some progress is being made and if we get to the 80% point with reasonable stability, then it's time to slow the updates and get better QA. I really do think that a Beta program with real people (many of the folks from this forum) would be great.
 

· AllStar
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Wolffpack said:
Look at the software release schedule for the R15:
  • 1044 - Original Release or very close to it.
  • 108A - 10/09/2005
  • 109A - 12/26/2005
    [*]109F - 02/10/2006
    [*]10A3 - 02/21/2006
    [*]10AF - 03/15/2006
    [*]10B8 - 04/11/2006
  • 10C8 - 07/03/2006
  • 10D3 - 08/14/2006
  • 10E8 - 10/09/2006
From 2/10 to 4/11 that was four updates in two months....

If we were not complaining that the updates were to quick, we would be complaining that they were to slow. :)
 

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gr8reb8 said:
From 2/10 to 4/11 that was four updates in two months....

If we were not complaining that the updates were to quick, we would be complaining that they were to slow. :)
Now there's someone who understands human nature.
 

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I never thought I'd see the words DTV and rushing in the same sentence.

I think the truth is that DTV is way behind and playing catchup. Face it, this isn't new technology. Recording TV to a hard drive is old news. My Comcast box worked just fine last year. If it weren't for rain fade on sunny days, a lousy program guide and really bad analog channels (the ones everyone watches), I'd probably use them. DTV just has a better quality picture, sound, service... If they offered Internet service so I could kill the "land line"

I never liked the HR10-250. Its slow, expensive and Tivo is overrated. I've been waiting for a couple of years for the HR20 mainly because I'm tired of paying for a handful of HD channels. I can't chime in on the problems, but at least buggy units are identifying the problems. I'm not sure how things like audio out get missed in testing, but I guess these things happen. Wouldn't it be easy to fill positions where your job is to sit on the couch and watch TV all day? Write down any problems you encounter. I know I would volunteer to "test" a box or two for free. How many people here wouldn't?

Get it right DTV... this is old technology. Hire the guys from ReplayTv, I'm sure they're looking for work. The only reason I want the HR20 ironed out is so DTV can get on with the real "new stuff"... like VOD and new (really old) channels like Starz and Cinemax in HD, or what about those cool cards that are supposed to go in the Media Center PC and work with Vista??? I'd might even buy the rumored 32" LCD with the embedded DTV HD Tuner.
 

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Dish Hopper 3, Dish Hopper Plus (sort of), Denon AVR-6500H HT receiver, Klipsch speaker system
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Amen to that. Guess it's not enough that DTV is trying to fix the issues with this receiver. Now people are complaining that DTV is trying to fix them quickly. Guess you really can't please any of the people any of the time. :D

As for everyone that rushed out to get a HR20, like it's been said so many times, you knew what you were getting into......deal with it. ;)
 

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Dish Hopper 3, Dish Hopper Plus (sort of), Denon AVR-6500H HT receiver, Klipsch speaker system
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my last post in reference to hasan's last post, if anyone really cares. :D
 

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Wolffpack said:
Oh, please, no need to mention daily MS security updates....that's comparing apples to oranges here and we all know MS security updates come out daily. Why's that? Because MS has problems, and every day some 16 year old in some Eastern Block country finds a new exploit. So please don't even go there.
Actually MS updates come usually the 2nd Tuesday of each month, "Patch Tuesday". It is very rare that a MS update is released off of this monthly schedule, although this seems it will be the case with IE7.
 

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PoitNarf said:
Actually MS updates come usually the 2nd Tuesday of each month, "Patch Tuesday". It is very rare that a MS update is released off of this monthly schedule, although this seems it will be the case with IE7.
Yea just wait until Vista is released. But I am sure it will be bug free. LOL. NOT!
 

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Twosted said:
Yea just wait until Vista is released. But I am sure it will be bug free. LOL. NOT!
Not to jinx myself, but my RC2 machine at home hasn't crashed or had any major problems at all in the past 4 days. Better track record than my HR20 at the start :rolleyes:
 

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Strejcek said:
Amen to that. Guess it's not enough that DTV is trying to fix the issues with this receiver. Now people are complaining that DTV is trying to fix them quickly. Guess you really can't please any of the people any of the time. :D
I absolutely agree that the current BIG issues need to be fixed quickly (BSOD, FF loop) need to be fixed ASAP. The smaller issues (Caller ID, OTA <- Yes, I said it) should go in a later update that receives more than a couple of days of testing. occasional updates are nice, but to me every week is frequent and occasional is more like every 3-6 months. Let's have a couple more rounds of hot fixes and one nice big feature update (with no new bugs) and move to a more stable update schedule.
 
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