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Hall Of Fame
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
We have had multiple software releases and the same core functionality problems continue to exist.

Lets assume that they can fix the box so it wont hang anymore.

There have been 2 big issues around recording that just wont go away:

The partial bug and unwatchable/unplayable recordings.

I am starting to wonder if there is a combination of their software architecture and potentially hardware that means it is beyond D*s ability to fix it with out at least starting from scratch on their core software architecture.

I would of hoped to see at least some improvement but the same core DVR features continue to fail the same way in every release.

It makes you wonder if they need to start over. Insanity is doing the same things over and over and expecting a different result.
 

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I am thinking your are right BT. They have been screwing around with the software for weeks and cannot fix it. Man, they not only may have a software problem, they may have a hardware conflict going on. They may have to change out some of the components to get it to work. These knuckleheads that run Directv tried to save a few bucks by building this thing on their own and look what's its going to cost them. The main-stream press is going to get wind of this pretty soon and then the dreaded phrase "erodeing stock holder confidence" will get into the press, and then they will be in a world of sh++. Heads will roll.
 

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Godfather
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I think the problem is with the tuners. It seems that when both tuners are being used, one will loose a recording. Or if you are watching live TV and the box needs to switch tuners, it screws up that recording. The tuners themselves may actually be ok. It may be a problem with the software switching aspect. I don't know. I will see how things go tonight. I am not going to change the channel and let the box do it itself. We will see.
 

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Godfather
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I hope this is untrue, but based upon the fact that our HR20 used to work pretty good and now is giving us unwatchable recordings and lockups due to the last software update, it's hard to feel optimistic! I hope they can get this working correctly!!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
These problems go back to when the box first came out:

Here are some early unwatchable bugs:

Here is a report from 8/30/06 that sounds like the unwatchable bug:
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=641100&highlight=black#post641100

and another on 9/13 that is the exact description of the unwatchable bug
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=64126&highlight=black

Here is a thread I started on 9/25/06 about unwatchable recordings
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=65303

This is my thread about it under 0xe3
Yep, Here is where I reported it under 0xe3 (I think)
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=67998&highlight=unwatchable

and here is my latest experience under 0xeb
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=69951

Here is an example of the Partial bug going back to 9/13/06

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=652773&highlight=partial#post652773

There are many more partial bug posts just search for them

The product was released with these major bugs and they still can not get rid of them. It is very concerning that they have not even been able to make the situation any better.
 

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Inkeyes said:
I am thinking your are right BT. They have been screwing around with the software for weeks and cannot fix it. Man, they not only may have a software problem, they may have a hardware conflict going on. They may have to change out some of the components to get it to work. These knuckleheads that run Directv tried to save a few bucks by building this thing on their own and look what's its going to cost them. The main-stream press is going to get wind of this pretty soon and then the dreaded phrase "erodeing stock holder confidence" will get into the press, and then they will be in a world of sh++. Heads will roll.
Agree. Yesterday, I suggested in a post that when D. Pogue or Walt at the WSJ gets a HR20 and tries it out and checks into the issues, it could be interesting, someone said, "Who reads them? Nobody." I feel that they are read, and if they report negatively about the situation, AP will look into it, etc. The snowball starts rolling. Despite those reporting no issues, there obviously are problems that aren't getting solved. And the "give D* a break, they are trying as hard as they can" folks offer patience as a strategy. Fine. But I guess if in 3-4 months these bugs/issues are still here, and we're on download 12-13, then it will be much harder to cut D* a break. If not, and they are all working at 99.9 percent, great. But it doesn't look good. After 7 tries, you'd think they could get the partial/missing recording bug out of the way.

I noticed on ESPN tonight they are giving away the Directv DVR-Plus (the HR20) for free for new "referred' subs. Imagine if you got a friend to sign up, collected $100, and they got one of the lemon HR20s. Ugly.
 

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Godfather
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Well it seems to be recording fine. But it switched channels without asking me if I wanted to. It usually asks if it is ok to switch. But as I said they it seems ok. I will wait and see if I can watch them after they are done recording.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Twosted said:
Well it seems to be recording fine. But it switched channels without asking me if I wanted to. It usually asks if it is ok to switch. But as I said they it seems ok. I will wait and see if I can watch them after they are done recording.
What I have found, if your trick plays don't work while it is recording, the show will have the unwatchable bug. If your trick plays work while it is being recorded, it will be fine. I have had a half dozen opportunities to test this out.

I can find no marker or identifier of what will cause a partial bug
 

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If the flaw was fundemental... thus at it's root...

Then why doesn't EVERYONE have the same problem.... and why can't it be re-created on command.

I don't think the unit is "fundementally" flawed, I think there are issues with particular routines or functionality, that come up under certain circumstances... And since no one is monitoring their unit 60x60x24x7 (aka every second)... it is difficult to issolate and fix.

I am sure they could put some sort of monitor on the system, to watch everything it does... but anyone that has used a software debugger knows, that by doing that you could be either introducing the issue, or slowing things down "just enough" that the issue doesn't occur.

What are the big difference between me and btmoore...
Based on his screen shots from earlier today:
1) Show selection... Most of his appeared to be from the "tranditional" cable channels. (Note I said most). Mine, primarily MPEG-4 Locals (note I said primarily)... We have a very different set of show combinations

2) Our external system setup... I am certain that between my box and my dish, is different then his box and his dish.... and then mix the differences that I get two different spot beams then he does (the locals sd/hd)... can that be playing into the situation?

As you know in the lab, they probably have a different setup then all of us...

The software developer in me would LOVE a chance to see into the code of the system... to take a crack at being the one that can fix it.... as all of software developers and hardware engineers all think... we know the one thing that can fix it.

Well... those guys writing the software for this... I am sure this is not the first program they have written, nor the first time they have had a nasty bug to figure out...

Is the HR20 flawed... yes.
Is it Fundamentall flawed... nope
 

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see post about powering the dish.. severely worries me about the power supplies in these units... would definately explain the drastic differences in problems...
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I think I have an active unwatchable bug in process, Heroes is suppose to be recording right now and the HR20 is acting like it will be an unwatchable recording. Luckily I can watch it live, but the trick plays are disabled. I have taken pictures of the list, history, todo list and I will take a picture of it when it ends, assuming it will be an unwatchable bug. Stay tuned.

There are 2 weird thing, it is not showing up in my recordings and the todo list show it but it is missing the record icon on it. but if you hit play you will see that it is recording.
 

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houskamp said:
see post about powering the dish.. severely worries me about the power supplies in these units... would definately explain the drastic differences in problems...
The "power" issues from boxes, is nothing new.
Similar things have occured with just about all generations of the hardware... not just the HR20.

Powered multiswitches have nearlly become the 2nd step in improving your signal reliability (first being making sure the dish is alligned correctly)
 

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Godfather
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btmoore said:
I think I have an active unwatchable bug in process, Heroes is suppose to be recording right now and the HR20 is acting like it will be an unwatchable recording. Luckily I can watch it live, but the trick plays are disabled. I have taken pictures of the list, history, todo list and I will take a picture of it when it ends, assuming it will be an unwatchable bug. Stay tuned.

There are 2 weird thing, it is not showing up in my recordings and the todo list show it but it is missing the record icon on it. but if you hit play you will see that it is recording.
Well I looked up at 9:20 and realized the record light wasn't on for heroes. I poked around and found it in the todo list, but when I tried to play it, it wouldn't playback. I hit exit and it went to live TV and no remote buttons worked. I'm so through with this thing.
 

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Not knowing where Folsome, CA is in relation to San Francisco... any chance they are the same set of locals? (just trying to find any corrolation)
 

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Earl Bonovich said:
Powered multiswitches have nearlly become the 2nd step in improving your signal reliability (first being making sure the dish is alligned correctly)
If it's a required component for the unit to operate properly, D* should be giving them to us, or they should be part of the HR20 retail box. Also, if it were that much of a cause of problems, D* should acknowledge that and at least tell people about it.
 

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Godfather
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Earl Bonovich said:
Not knowing where Folsome, CA is in relation to San Francisco... any chance they are the same set of locals? (just trying to find any corrolation)
Folsom is near Sacramento. Our locals are Sacramento locals...Same vicinity, but shouldn't be the same locals.
 

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jkc120 said:
If it's a required component for the unit to operate properly, D* should be giving them to us, or they should be part of the HR20 retail box. Also, if it were that much of a cause of problems, D* should acknowledge that and at least tell people about it.
It is not a "required" piece for the installation, unless the circumstances of your installation warrant it. AKA... your installer should know if you are reaching a point that a powered multiswitch (vs a passive one) would be more beneficial.

A single receiver should have no issues powering a dish, provided that it is with in the 100' and you are using RG-6 solid copper core... that is the spec. (for the Ka/Ku dish)

Once you start adding in more, and introducing a multiswitch... that is where you could run into problems.... And actually up until recently... there where no powered multiswitches for the Ka/Ku setup.

And zinwells' is like $200, and I think Spauns is $500
At least the signal locker is only $50...
 

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Godfather
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So you're saying anyone with more than one receiver needs one. And why aren't the installers privy to this?

I have 4 individual wires coming down from the satellite as far as I know (I suppose there is a multiswitch up there?).

So why is my R10 recording everything happily if it's a power output problem?
 

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jkc120 said:
So you're saying anyone with more than one receiver needs one. And why aren't the installers privy to this?

I have 4 individual wires coming down from the satellite as far as I know (I suppose there is a multiswitch up there?).

So why is my R10 recording everything happily if it's a power output problem?
I am saying, once you get past the number of feeds on one dish (which is four), then yes... when introducing a multiswitch, it should be powered.

There is a built in multiswitch.

Your R10 isn't tunning at least the 99, 103 sats
and most likely not the 110, 119

And IIRC, the 101 odd use no voltage to be selected, and the 101-even uses the lowest +12v (I think).

As for the installers... I have never gone through installer training, so I don't know what they are "privy" too or not.
But when ever I have done an install for someone (before all the "free" installations") I have always had them spend the extra $10 or so for the powered multiswitches...
 
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