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· AllStar
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Earl (and everyone),

I've made a quick list of issues that have been reported with the HR20. Can you shed some light on how things are going/likelihood of resolution soon? Obviously this is not all-inclusive, feel free to add anything I missed.

Bugs:

1-HDMI Issues (Getting better every update?)

2-Lost/Missing Records (Often, but not always, associated with changing/incomplete guide data and especially loss of signal.)

3-Lost signal message on screen and unable to erase.

4-Wierd Closed Captioning

5-Black Screen of Death/Complete Lockup

6-Loss of trick play features while watching "live"

7-MPEG4 FF and "jerkiness" problems (More a problem on the uplink side rather than in the receiver?)

8-Wrong show description--eg--I turn on HR20 after work and it says it is 6:30AM with a description of my early local news--the last thing I was watching before turning it off in the AM.

9-Guide search not always finding shows--I couldn't find "Firefly" on a title search, but it was in the guide.

10-Season pass not working at all, no upcoming showings until I delete the season pass and reset. (May be related to #9)

Features:

A-OTA--Will all of the above exponentially increase when adding the 2 OTA tuners into the mix? I assume that is the delay in activating.

B-Multi-room-viewing, remote networking access, and/or DirecTV to Go.

C-External SATA (Enabled, but when will it truely be integrated?)

D-"Faster" Fast Forward Sure would make the 30 sec "slip" nicer.

Hopes:

Dual Buffers?

I personally have experienced 1, 2, 3, 6, 8, 9, 10. Anybody else?

Just curious if there is any insight into what DirecTV feels are the top priorities. I would vote 5, 2, 3 and A in that order.
 

· I used to be a rocket scientist
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I don't have mine yet, but having read these forums for weeks now you seem to have gleaned the categories of problems very well. Given that, I think your personal priority list is dead-on. Those problems are the ones I will want addressed, and in that order, when I finally get my unit installed.
 

· Lifetime Achiever
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uncrph90 said:
Bugs:

1-HDMI Issues (Getting better every update?)
Yes, and there probably always will be HDMI issues, until all vendors out there of the TV and components comply 100% to the HDMI standards

2-Lost/Missing Records (Often, but not always, associated with changing/incomplete guide data and especially loss of signal.)
Not much can be done if it is a true signal loss, or if the guide data simply isn't there... but other controlable reasons are being corrected

3-Lost signal message on screen and unable to erase.
Quick fix to that is to go into Signal Strength test... but a future release will eliminate that problem

4-Wierd Closed Captioning
I have been told most of the issues with the "Locals" and closed captioning is that the locals are simply not pushing the Closed Caption correctly on the HD/MPEG-4 signals... DirecTV is actively working with the providers to get the CC to the appropriate level

5-Black Screen of Death/Complete Lockup
Another one of those that will never be 100% correct... but they have significantly reduced the occurance during the last release. And will continue to do so as they identify sources for the Lockups and BSODs

6-Loss of trick play features while watching "live"
They are aware of it, and have made improvements in the last release... and will so in the next release... and again as more "sources" for the problem are identified, they will correct those too

7-MPEG4 FF and "jerkiness" problems (More a problem on the uplink side rather than in the receiver?)
It is two fold... encoding side, and decoding side... Decoding side will be improved on the next software release, but the encoding side is going to be sparatic and no pattern to it... as that is independent of the HR20 program


8-Wrong show description--eg--I turn on HR20 after work and it says it is 6:30AM with a description of my early local news--the last thing I was watching before turning it off in the AM.
Issue seen with the latest release, we will see what the next version brings


9-Guide search not always finding shows--I couldn't find "Firefly" on a title search, but it was in the guide.
The search algorithms and optimizers are constantly being tweeked each release, so yes...that should improve and be more consistant

10-Season pass not working at all, no upcoming showings until I delete the season pass and reset. (May be related to #9)
You are right, it is related to #9 and guide data... and as they find issues and cases, they can get them corrected

Features:

A-OTA--Will all of the above exponentially increase when adding the 2 OTA tuners into the mix? I assume that is the delay in activating.
There has been a delay, but not for reasons you may think. ATSC is really just around the corner (might be down the block a bit), but they are about to turn the corner and see the outcome

B-Multi-room-viewing, remote networking access, and/or DirecTV to Go.
MRV is ways away, if ever. That particular feature probably won't be seen until the Home Media Center is release; DirecTV To Go, will probably be a 2007 release feature, and tied to new products in the market

C-External SATA (Enabled, but when will it truely be integrated?)
What you see now, is what we are going to have for a long time. Enabling it the way they did gives the hard core people something work with for now... They will re-visit it some day, but for now... it is has been put back to the near bottom of the feature list

D-"Faster" Fast Forward Sure would make the 30 sec "slip" nicer.
4x FF will be introduced... not sure when... but they are going to introduce it. the 30s "slip" will improve as they improve the MPEG4/MPEG2 decoding code.

Hopes:

Dual Buffers?
Yes... probably... Is definently on the table, but won't be introduced until at least they have fixed the current major issues, ATSC, and probably the ViiV/Network code introduction.... Even though Dual Buffers may seem trivial, it really isn't...
My answers, In-Line
 

· Cool Member
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2-Lost/Missing Records (Often, but not always, associated with changing/incomplete guide data and especially loss of signal.)

Talkt to a level 2 (or 3) tech last night and he said that there are known issues with the recordings and mentioned the different encryptions used by the networks are a big part of the problem...I lost Lost last night and a football game on Sunday...and the Saturday primetime games kept recording until the unit locked and I had to push the red button - Sunday morning.
 

· Legend
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Earl Bonovich said:
My answers, In-Line
This is a very useful thread and enlightening to read Earl's responses. What's most concerning to me is your take on freezeups and BSOD's. Can you clarify why this issue is unlikely to ever be 100% corrected?

Scary.....
 

· Lifetime Achiever
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Earl Bonovich said:
Dual Buffers?
Yes... probably... Is definently on the table, but won't be introduced until at least they have fixed the current major issues, ATSC, and probably the ViiV/Network code introduction.... Even though Dual Buffers may seem trivial, it really isn't...
Yes, TiVo had the same problem when they first released their product. TiVo chose to have only one tuner, the HR20 can at least record 2 programs which is what the biggest complaint was with the TiVo.

Again, I'm glad that it is on "The List," but let's get those bugs fixed first (as you stated). :)
 

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politzer said:
This is a very useful thread and enlightening to read Earl's responses. What's most concerning to me is your take on freezeups and BSOD's. Can you clarify why this issue is unlikely to ever be 100% corrected?

Scary.....
Sure...

Ultimately... the unit is a computer..
As we all know.. Even the best programmed computers in the world... still have the possiblility to crash or freak out...

Now take that down to a consumer electronic computer, that has limited resources to work with..... so not a lot of room for catch-all and really detailed exception/error handling that could possible cover every case.

Then mix in the occasionaly seriously flawed transmission/encoding ect...
Quick power flicker in a house...

So yes, it will never be 100% for 100% of the people, but it certainly "could be" 100% for some people..
 

· New Member
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1-HDMI Issues (Getting better every update?)
Yes, and there probably always will be HDMI issues, until all vendors out there of the TV and components comply 100% to the HDMI standards

Hi Earl
:confused: We just got our HR20 on tuesday, not realizing the demand we were "lucky" to get one BUT it was a bad box so tech came out and brought a new one. It works fine EXCEPT the HDMI. We have a Toshiba 42H83 that we purchased new in 2003.It has what is called DVI/HDCP input when the tech plugged it in the HDMI cable we get just a black screen (on both boxes) Everything works on the 2nd box but the HDMI. Do you know if there are glitches with this box and our TV? Is the DVI/HDCP too old for this box? We have it hooked up via Component right now. Any thoughts or suggestions? We got the cable from the tech...should I buy a new cable?
Thanks for all your expertise on this sight! We had no idea what we were getting into...we just wanted to use HD since the price has come down so much..lol Thanks! Pamela & Mike
 

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mikenpamela said:
1-HDMI Issues (Getting better every update?)
Yes, and there probably always will be HDMI issues, until all vendors out there of the TV and components comply 100% to the HDMI standards

Hi Earl
:confused: We just got our HR20 on tuesday, not realizing the demand we were "lucky" to get one BUT it was a bad box so tech came out and brought a new one. It works fine EXCEPT the HDMI. We have a Toshiba 42H83 that we purchased new in 2003.It has what is called DVI/HDCP input when the tech plugged it in the HDMI cable we get just a black screen (on both boxes) Everything works on the 2nd box but the HDMI. Do you know if there are glitches with this box and our TV? Is the DVI/HDCP too old for this box? We have it hooked up via Component right now. Any thoughts or suggestions? We got the cable from the tech...should I buy a new cable?
Thanks for all your expertise on this sight! We had no idea what we were getting into...we just wanted to use HD since the price has come down so much..lol Thanks! Pamela & Mike
Welcome to the forums.
Take a look in the HDMI issue thread, and see if your TV is listed.
If it is not... the add it to the list.

It is very possible it is the HDMI... itself not talking correctly to the HR20.
There are some compatibility issues with the HDMI.

I doubt it would be the cable.
 

· AllStar
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Earl Bonovich said:
2-Lost/Missing Records (Often, but not always, associated with changing/incomplete guide data and especially loss of signal.)
Not much can be done if it is a true signal loss, or if the guide data simply isn't there... but other controlable reasons are being corrected
Earl,

Thanks for your input. I keep coming back to this issue (because it keeps happening.) I understand no signal=no recording. BUT--loss of signal for 3 minutes shouldn't equal the rest of recording being deleted automatically. That happens now at least some of the time (but not all of the time--I guess that's why it's hard to fix?) Same thing with guide data--others have reported lost recordings when guide data changes on channel 95--it seems like if the guide changes, the HR20 (at least sometimes) dumps the program. I'm not a programmer, but it seems like the HR20 is quick to delete by itself--not even getting into the "keep until I delete" behavior on series links.
 

· Legend
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Earl Bonovich said:
Sure...

Ultimately... the unit is a computer..
As we all know.. Even the best programmed computers in the world... still have the possiblility to crash or freak out...

Now take that down to a consumer electronic computer, that has limited resources to work with..... so not a lot of room for catch-all and really detailed exception/error handling that could possible cover every case.

Then mix in the occasionaly seriously flawed transmission/encoding ect...
Quick power flicker in a house...

So yes, it will never be 100% for 100% of the people, but it certainly "could be" 100% for some people..
Earl, I appreciate the logic but as a consumer, not a programmer/engineer type who is inured to the concept of failure, I'm not encouraged.

I was an early TIVO adopter, had one within 6 months of initial rollout, and have been a DVR user ever since. I've always had standalones, never integrated with Direct, which I've used for almost as long. My most recent boxes were the Humax wireless boxes.

In all these years I've never experienced freezeups and any of my stand alones. Maybe I'm among the more fortunate and there were other stand alone users who experienced freeze ups.

I would think the previous technology would be a foundation to learn from.
 

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politzer said:
Earl, I appreciate the logic but as a consumer, not a programmer/engineer type who is inured to the concept of failure, I'm not encouraged.
Well okay... sorry that was from the engineering/programmer side of me.
As nothing is 100% 100% of the time.

From a consumer point of view, yes the unit should and probably will reach a point that it can be relied on.
 

· Cool Member
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Whenever there is mention of fixes for known bugs, I never see anything regarding the audio video synch problems. I know that many others besides myself have the same problem. It makes it very difficult to watch and enjoy many programs.

Is this not a big enough problem that it is not getting the attention of software programers so that it might be addressed in future updates? Is D* even aware that the HR20 is having this problem?

sgc
 

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sgconer said:
Whenever there is mention of fixes for known bugs, I never see anything regarding the audio video synch problems. I know that many others besides myself have the same problem. It makes it very difficult to watch and enjoy many programs.

Is this not a big enough problem that it is not getting the attention of software programers so that it might be addressed in future updates? Is D* even aware that the HR20 is having this problem?

sgc
What shows are you watching that having lip sync issues?
Since we have the same HD feeds... I am intrested to know.
As I have seen very few audio/video sync issues.

And it is not that it "isn't" a big problem.
Therer are just factors that could be in play outside the HR20 (Stereo, HDMI-TV, Switchers, ect)...
So it makes it that much more difficult to identify what is going on...

Audio/Video sync issues have plagued DVR's since their start (and yes that does include the TiVo units)
 

· Cool Member
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I've watched several episodes of Lost, all w/ Audio Synch problems. Also Greys Anatomy and much ESPN programming. I've encountered the problem more times than I can count, I just can't recall what shows I was watching at the time.

Others have had the same problem as discussed in a thread started today, 10/19 at 12:07 A.M. Unfortunately, I am unable to post a link to it. It appears that the problem exists not only for HDMI users but for those using component video w/ digital opitcal audio.

I feel like many in that thread that this severe of a synch problem makes many shows unwatchable. Hopefully, you will see that thread and see that this is a wide spread problem that needs to be addressed. I will ask around and see how many are still having this problem and maybe then we can get some support for a fix.
 

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sgconer said:
I've watched several episodes of Lost, all w/ Audio Synch problems. Also Greys Anatomy and much ESPN programming. I've encountered the problem more times than I can count, I just can't recall what shows I was watching at the time.
:( hmm... can't do a comparison then.
I don't watch any of the ABC shows.. (my wife does watch Deseperate Housewives)...

I am primarily the other three networks...
 

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sgconer said:
I've watched several episodes of Lost, all w/ Audio Synch problems. Also Greys Anatomy and much ESPN programming. I've encountered the problem more times than I can count, I just can't recall what shows I was watching at the time.

Others have had the same problem as discussed in a thread started today, 10/19 at 12:07 A.M. Unfortunately, I am unable to post a link to it. It appears that the problem exists not only for HDMI users but for those using component video w/ digital opitcal audio.

I feel like many in that thread that this severe of a synch problem makes many shows unwatchable. Hopefully, you will see that thread and see that this is a wide spread problem that needs to be addressed. I will ask around and see how many are still having this problem and maybe then we can get some support for a fix.
I've had the Audio/Video sync problem on a few occasions. During Live-TV, I've corrected the problem by pausing or backing up slightly so that I am no longer at realtime, just close.

I had one recording that had terrible sync problems. In fact, it was probably off by 3 or 4 seconds (no kidding). I was able to fix this problem by going to the very, very end of the program (where it says Delete/keep?) and then rewind back to the beginning. Sync problem disappeared and the program was much more watchable.
 

· Crivens!
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I don't know if it would fall under the umbrella of one of the points already listed, but I'd have to add "Recurring Manual Recording has multiple flaws".

I can't seem to get a recurring manual recording (e.g., Mon-Fri 5:30am 30min ch204 or Every Wed 9:00 30min ch249) to work right. I get double entries in the to do list, failure to record at all, failure to incorrectly show in the to do list (or record) the 2nd recording, etc.

For me, most of the other bugs and missing features (like "dual buffers") are things I can easily work around and live with. But the recurring manual recording problem is really annoying.
 
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