[flipptyfloppity]

This being after the OTA (over the air) analog shutdown.

Let's cover the common case first, a network station, hence they broadcast in HD.

Answer 1:
Nothing. The D* SD LIL feed is what they received OTA analog from an antenna in the market and sent up to the satellite. Once the local station stops analog transmission, D*'s local feed will go dark or just plain disappear as a channel.

This would be great from D*'s point of view, it saves a lot of bandwidth. It also reflects the "real world". But there's a problem. Anyone with an MPEG-2 only receiver (most non-HD receivers) will not be able to receive any locals at all.

Answer 2:
You will see a downrezzed letterboxed version of the ATSC OTA station that D* creates in-house.

This keeps those with MPEG-2 receivers working. But it wastes bandwidth. And, since HD-capable stations tend to broadcast ONLY in HD (16:9), that means that when watching an SD program (4:3), it will be pillarboxed to 16:9 at the station and then letterboxed to 4:3 by D*, making a small picture with black borders on all 4 sides. And those with SD sets likely do not have a "zoom" button to correct for this. A person with an MPEG-2 receiver/SDTV literally will never see a program on a major network that fills the entire screen. It'll either be letterboxed or doubleboxed. If you have a 16:9 SDTV, you're in almost the same boat, although you can hit the zoom button to get out of the doublebox problem.

Answer 3:
You will see a downrezzed anamorphic (16:9) version of the ATSC OTA station that D* creates in-house.

This also keeps those with MPEG-2 receivers working. Those with 16:9 SDTVs can now see proper 16:9 shows (in SD) and 4:3 will be pillarboxed by the station. But anyone but anyone without a widescreen TV has no way to correct the anamorphic stretch.

Answer 4:
Your local station will create a special SD feed for cable and SAT customers. This will be 4:3. D* will put that in the SD slot.

In reality, what station is going to keep producing a 4:3 signal when they don't broadcast it over the air? Knowing the TV stations, there's no guarantee this won't be doubleboxed anyway.

For ATSC SDTV stations (480i/480p 4:3), things work a lot better.

Answer 1:
You get an MPEG-2 SD version of the SD station in the slot. Seems pretty straightforward. D* neither saves nor loses bandwidth from before.

Answer 2:
Nothing. D* drops the MPEG-2 LIL version of this since they were dropping all the other network LILs. (This seems as unlikely as the "go dark" possibility above).

All in all, I think I learned a couple things here.

1. Woe to the people using converter boxes or D* MPEG-2 receivers. Unless they have auto de-pillarboxing, people with SD TVs will be staring at a lot of doubleboxed content and will be unhappy.
2. I think it's likely the network stations will have absolutely zero use for any program that isn't 16:9 after Feb 17th, 2009. Wondering when reality TV would go HD (or at least 16:9)? You know the date now. With stations no longer producing 4:3 signals, 16:9 becomes king.
3. Boy, I bet D* wishes they had rolled out MPEG-4 receivers to everyone by now. Even if they can't output HD. They could go dark on the old MPEG-2 LILs and save a lot of bandwidth.

 

[Herdfan]

Answer 4:
Your local station will create a special SD feed for cable and SAT customers. This will be 4:3. D* will put that in the SD slot.

This is the answer that scares me. Are stations going to move the HD feed to the -2 position and broadcast the SD feed on -1. Or vice versa as it doesn't really matter, but I picked the HD feed to go to -2 because that is what would create the most problems (Think HR20's that can't scan for stations).

So now stations are transmitting both an HD signal and SD signal and any other MyZTV crap on another subchannel. So it takes us even further from good OTA HD.

 

[GeorgeLV]

DirecTV (and Dish Network) have already transitioned several markets to digital at their local receive facilities.

The answer is...they center cut the HDTV feed. That's why the networks have all moved their logos into the 4:3 safe area.

 

[LarryFlowers]

On March 1st, DirecTV customers will for the most part notice nothing... If there was any cause for concern you would be seeing a mad scramble by now to deal with it.

While it would be nice to see everything in nice unstretched 16x9 format... thats a long long way away. If you take all the material that has ever been committed to video tape and film, probably less than 10% of it is in a "16x9" format. Even going forward, material is still being shot in a 4x3 format as well as in standard definition.

We are probabbly at least 10 years away from seeing a "majority" of material properly formatted and in HD.

 

[flipptyfloppity]

On March 1st, DirecTV customers will for the most part notice nothing... If there was any cause for concern you would be seeing a mad scramble by now to deal with it.

While it would be nice to see everything in nice unstretched 16x9 format... thats a long long way away. If you take all the material that has ever been committed to video tape and film, probably less than 10% of it is in a "16x9" format. Even going forward, material is still being shot in a 4x3 format as well as in standard definition.

We are probabbly at least 10 years away from seeing a "majority" of material properly formatted and in HD.

I have to greatly disagree with you. I'm talking about network shows. Right now about 90% of network shows are already in HD. Additionally, once analog is dropped, all these network stations will be producing their feeds in 16:9, because they have no outlets for 4:3. You think they're going to concentrate on producing content that they can't even air without converting for aspect ratio?

I would bet you $100 there will not be a single network show in the fall 2009 lineup that isn't in 16:9. Yes, independent producers may still make 4:3 content, and some of that will even get aired on network channels. But none of that ends up in primetime slots (except perhaps in summer).

Also, 4:3 film (Academy Standard) gets almost no use anymore. The last film I can think of that was shot in it was Full Metal Jacket. Nearly every film shot in North America since the 50s has been in 1.85:1 (Academy Flat) (about 16:9) or wider. I'd say in Europe and Asia (except perhaps India) since the 60s.

As to saying D* was caught flat-footed, I am not saying that. But I think they would rather they could have switched everyone to something like the R22 quite a while back. Why have wholly-created SD MPEG-2 downconverts clogging up your satellites when you could downconvert at the box?

 

[bonscott87]

DirecTV has stated several times in the past few financial and investor calls that they are uneffected by the digital transition.

So what will customers notice on March 1st, 2009? Nothing, things will be as they always have been.

 

[flipptyfloppity]

DirecTV (and Dish Network) have already transitioned several markets to digital at their local receive facilities.

The answer is...they center cut the HDTV feed. That's why the networks have all moved their logos into the 4:3 safe area.

That's interesting. I didn't notice they moved their logos in, I thought only the CW did that.

How incredibly lame. Still, these are the same people who think it's okay to run huge ads in the corner complete with sound. They have no pride in their product anymore.

 

[Tom Robertson]

I guess my first question is who watches SD?

My second thought is thems that do watch SD, won't care so long is it's not black.

DIRECTV is working very hard to make sure none will be black. Now, if individual stations don't get their act together on time, there will be some black on Feb. 18, 2009. By March 1, I expect very few will be black.

So I'm not sure I follow any reason to be overly worried, I'll still be watching HD. Even more than I am today. All good as far as I can tell.

Cheers,
Tom

 

[Nick]

It's March 1, 2009 - you tune in an SD SAT local station. What do you see?

Early in the morning, I'm guessing I'll be watching the JAX or SAV
local morning news, except that I'd be watching in HD, of course!

 

[mtnsackett]

I can't believe the amount of people who either don't understand the conversion or don't want to and spew garbage everywhere. So I will correct you Now

The conversion to digital has NO EFFECT on the aspect ratio of the picture it only has to do with how the signal is broadcast. Hi Definition is totally different all together. All full-power television stations have to broadcast digitally on February 17, 2009. not all will be broadcasting in Hi definition as that is a separate expense that can cost them about $500,000 just for the equipment in the station not to mention the upgrades to the towers. That is why you see channels broadcast OTA (if you have a TV that is digital with an ota antenna) as say 8 which would be analog, 8-1 which would be a 4:3 standard definition digital broadcast and say 8-2 which would be your High Definition 16:9 broadcast. So on feb 17, 2009 your DirecTV, Dish network and Cable will still be there and still be 4:3 nothing will be black unless you forgot to pay your bill or god forbid the world ends

Translators and low-power television stations are not required to go all-digital after February 17, 2009. Viewers of these broadcast stations should contact their station for details. As these stations go digital, consumers will need to take action to continue to receive their free channels with an antenna. For a list of low-power stations in your area, or more information on low-power television, go to http://www.lptvanswers.com/
Any questions I will answer then honestly and no bull

 

[Juppers]

You are probably going to see a centerpunch version of the station's digital feed. It was in a video someone posted in a thread around here somewhere. Basically the stations have a choice as to if they are letterboxed or centerpunched, with DTV pushing them towards centerpunch.

 

[flipptyfloppity]

I can't believe the amount of people who either don't understand the conversion or don't want to and spew garbage everywhere. So I will correct you Now

Any questions I will answer then honestly and no bull

I was very clear in what I said. I broke down my post into two parts, for those channels that broadcast in 16:9 (typically HD) and those that don't.

Of my local network channels, FOX, CBS, NBC, ABC and CW, a grand total of ZERO broadcast a network feed digitally in 4:3. All send a main HD channel, most send a second SD channel that has different programming, one (CBS, who prohibits second channels) has no -2 at all. And this is the case in many markets.

Aspect ratio definitely comes into play in the HD case (and 16:9 SD). I am glad to hear that D* will be cutting the center section out of the widescreen channels. This will help those with small 4:3 TVs make the most of their screen real estate. I do wonder what happens to those who are using digital converters for OTA. They may not be so lucky.

So I do understand ATSC, OTA and HD. And I did phrase my question very specifically. There was no need to tell me I'm confusing the ATSC transition with HD.

Additionally, I cannot comprehend how a station could convert to HD for $500,000. A single Betacam (portable) camera costs almost $100,000. These small stations will be in very tight positions in terms of trying to go to HD, frankly, they'll likely have to wait around until equipment becomes available on the second hand market.

 

[Tom Robertson]

I was very clear in what I said. I broke down my post into two parts, for those channels that broadcast in 16:9 (typically HD) and those that don't.

Of my local network channels, FOX, CBS, NBC, ABC and CW, a grand total of ZERO broadcast a network feed digitally in 4:3. All send a main HD channel, most send a second SD channel that has different programming, one (CBS, who prohibits second channels) has no -2 at all. And this is the case in many markets.

Aspect ratio definitely comes into play in the HD case (and 16:9 SD). I am glad to hear that D* will be cutting the center section out of the widescreen channels. This will help those with small 4:3 TVs make the most of their screen real estate. I do wonder what happens to those who are using digital converters for OTA. They may not be so lucky.

So I do understand ATSC, OTA and HD. And I did phrase my question very specifically. There was no need to tell me I'm confusing the ATSC transition with HD.

Additionally, I cannot comprehend how a station could convert to HD for $500,000. A single Betacam (portable) camera costs almost $100,000. These small stations will be in very tight positions in terms of trying to go to HD, frankly, they'll likely have to wait around until equipment becomes available on the second hand market.

As I recall, HDNET's two portable HD broadcast trucks were about $500,000 each, including cameras, switchers, recorders, displays, etc.

Cheers,
Tom

 

[Paul A]

It's March 1st, 2009, and you tune in an SD SAT local station. What do you see?


A D* ad announcing more HBO channels in HD rolling out in Q2

 

[evan_s]

As to saying D* was caught flat-footed, I am not saying that. But I think they would rather they could have switched everyone to something like the R22 quite a while back. Why have wholly-created SD MPEG-2 downconverts clogging up your satellites when you could downconvert at the box?

Because replacing the millions of legacy mpeg2 sd boxes would cost a lot of money. Really how the channels are being broadcast over the air has little relationship to how DirecTV handles their legacy SD systems. DirecTV can get rid of their legacy SD boxes when ever it makes sense to do so. DirecTV could switch everyone over to new mpeg4 boxes before the atsc change over if they wanted to but they don't need to. Heck Dish is already doing it with their eastern Arc because they need the bandwidth.

Yes some of DirecTVs local feeds are handled by picking up the OTA broadcast signal but it could be handled by any other number of means. A fiber link or a direct sat uplink for example. Converting over to the ATSC broadcast is better for directv anyway. It should give them a cleaner signal to start off with which aids in compression.

 

[Tom Robertson]

...
As to saying D* was caught flat-footed, I am not saying that. But I think they would rather they could have switched everyone to something like the R22 quite a while back. Why have wholly-created SD MPEG-2 downconverts clogging up your satellites when you could downconvert at the box?

Sorry, I didn't catch this part until evan_s mentioned it.

Replacing 45M receivers, just so they could reclaim a portion of the satellite bandwidth taken up by the SD LILs doesn't add up. 45M receivers is anywhere from $1.5B to $10B depending upon what the base costs and what other things are included (like a new dish.)

$1.5B would buy a couple of satellites and their capacity. And DIRECTV isn't short of capacity right now. So there really isn't a "clog" from the SD LILs.

Yes, in theory it is an intriguing proposition, but once someone starts running real numbers the value prop falls apart quickly.

Cheers,
Tom

 

[Grentz]

Plus there are still quite a few people that have receivers dating back many many years (my uncle still uses his original receiver from 1996!, My other uncle has 2 or 3 receivers that are 8+ years old!). Some people just dont want to be disturbed and setting up rollouts to replace all those dishes/receivers would cost a fortune and cause many disgruntled customers (having to go through all the changes to in reality receive the same channels in their mind).

The centerpunch idea seems to be what I have heard of as the most prevalent though, in the satellite, cable, and other SD broadcasts of HD stations.

 

[moghedien]

Wilmington, North Carolina will end digital broadcasts on Sept. 8, 2008. Directv offers SD, but not HD locals in this market. If there is going to be a problem, we will find out very soon...

If this was going to be a problem, wouldn't it already show up on any SD TV with an ATSC tuner receiving OTA broadcasts?

 

[paulman182]

DirecTV has already begun using the digital transmission of the local stations in many markets as their source for DirecTV's SD channel. There is a list of markets and the date of transition floating around here somewhere, but many have already been converted.

 

[Lee L]

DirecTV (and Dish Network) have already transitioned several markets to digital at their local receive facilities.

The answer is...they center cut the HDTV feed. That's why the networks have all moved their logos into the 4:3 safe area.

Yep, this is the plan. Personally, I would much prefer that they letterbox everythign for 4:3, but sinec all the masses would whine up a storm about it we will have to live with shots framed for 4:3 and bugs in practically the middle of the picture for some time now.

Did you see the closing ceremonies of the Olympics? They had the NBC bug right on top of the flame right as they were going to extinguish it. It looked awesome.