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· Legend
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am a newbie to the HD scene, but I just had the VIP622 installed with HDMI to my Panasonic 50" Plasma(Viera - 1080i), and I find the picture quality horrendously bad compared to my Directv standard programming(R10 PVR hooked up via S video). Am I missing something - The picture is extremely pixilized(I tried both 720 and 1080i settings on 622, but it didn't help), and blurry. I am in the Los Angeles market; the installers said I had a stronger than usual HD signal.As the installers were finishing up I started complaining and said if this is the best it gets, then I want them to remove it and am going back to my Directv, but by then they had taken down my Directv dish. They seemed to be clueless on the HD quality thing and told me to call CS.

I checked the software and its L365. Is there something I can try - possibly Component cables instead of HDMI because at this point I am bummed that I am paying more for worse picture quality.

Any thoughts or ideas. I appreciate any help.

Thanks
 

· Premium Member
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21,658 Posts
What channels are you watching that look bad?

SD channels often look worse through component or HDMI on a large HDTV because it shows the flaws in those signals. Some folks run a S-video connection to use when watching the SD channels for that reason.

If it is HD channels you are seeing problems, then I would be concerned, because they should look as good or better than what you had with DirecTV.

OTA (if you have an antenna connected) should look the best by comparison unless the OTA in your area is not up to par.
 

· 622 Tips & Trick Keeper
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First off what channels are you watching? Is your TV set to Vivid mode? If so, change the mode to something other than burn mode. I assumed we are talking your experiences with watching HD content.

What channels are you experiences PQ issues. Is it all channels. Look at HD Discovery as a good starting point.. How does the quality look there.

If you are seeing night and day differences between Dish and Direct HD quality, something is not configured properly...

I threw out a couple of possibilities. Also make sure you viewing your Component or HDMI inputs and not the svideo.

Are you talking about SD channel content?

Answer to these questions should help pinpoint what you are experiencing. I suggest also searching this forum because we have had some other threads that sound similar. Might provide some ideas of what to try.
 

· Hall Of Fame
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1,086 Posts
Something isn't kosher if you are having a lot of problems with pixelizing on all the channels. Go into the install menu and tell us what level of signal you are getting on 110/119/129. It sounds to me that even though the installers said you had a high signal level that it isn't really that good. Also it could be that you have a faulty unit.
 

· AllStar
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75 Posts
You should be saying WOW on HD with DISH. Re-check your settings for the VIP 622 DVR and your new TV and running of cables.
 

· Legend
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117 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
whatchel1 said:
Something isn't kosher if you are having a lot of problems with pixelizing on all the channels. Go into the install menu and tell us what level of signal you are getting on 110/119/129. It sounds to me that even though the installers said you had a high signal level that it isn't really that good. Also it could be that you have a faulty unit.
My signal strengths are as follows:
110 West = 89%
119 West = 121%
129% = 57%
So is 57% on 129 too low - what HD Channels would this affect. Should I call E and have a tech come out and realign it/

As someone mentioned above, I reduced the picture color from Vivid and it appears better, but it isn't jaw dropping.

I expect to see pixilation on Sd channles, but for example, Discover HD, some of the program and appears good sometimes but sometimes its unclear in other parts- NFLHD looks bad, etc. Do providers sometimes mix HD and SD contnet on an HD channel(besides commercials) - maybe that's where I am finding fault.

Sorry for all the questions - Just not sure what the issue is.
 

· 622 Tips & Trick Keeper
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Here is what I would suggest.

1) 57% on 129 is really low. This could explain picture break up on some of your channels if you are having it.

2) Is your TV in any zoom mode.. That would blow the picture up and make it softer.

3) Yes... HD channels will mix HD content with SD content. DiscoveryHD usually does not so that is a good one to use. Use HDNet also when trying to get a feel. NFL HD has a lot of SD content that is shown. Not a good one to use for comparison.

4) IS there a huge difference between your SD and HD experience? There should be.

5) Another suggestion would be to get a DVD calibration disk like AVIA and calibrate your settings...

6) What is the sharpness set on your TV. Turn it all the way down and see if that removed the pixelization. Sharpness can have a bad effect on digitial content.

Like I said.. Do a search on this thread for Picture Quality and you should get some thread for suggestions. I just typed some random thoughts of things to check..

Like others said.. you should see some good HD quality stuff. Do you have OTA.. If so, what does the PQ of your OTQ look like.

I am in SoCal myself and have a 60" LCD Sony and my HD looks excellent. One thing to keep in mind... HD is still a mixed back.. Some of it looks amazing and some of it looks ok... Reason is that some of it is bad transfers, cheap conversations etc... Not all looks amazing.. but you should be able to find the good stuff on HDNet and Discovery and if those are not impressing then something is still not right.
 

· Legend
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117 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Ron Barry said:
Here is what I would suggest.

1) 57% on 129 is really low. This could explain picture break up on some of your channels if you are having it.

2) Is your TV in any zoom mode.. That would blow the picture up and make it softer.

3) Yes... HD channels will mix HD content with SD content. DiscoveryHD usually does not so that is a good one to use. Use HDNet also when trying to get a feel. NFL HD has a lot of SD content that is shown. Not a good one to use for comparison.

4) IS there a huge difference between your SD and HD experience? There should be.

5) Another suggestion would be to get a DVD calibration disk like AVIA and calibrate your settings...

6) What is the sharpness set on your TV. Turn it all the way down and see if that removed the pixelization. Sharpness can have a bad effect on digitial content.

Like I said.. Do a search on this thread for Picture Quality and you should get some thread for suggestions. I just typed some random thoughts of things to check..

Like others said.. you should see some good HD quality stuff. Do you have OTA.. If so, what does the PQ of your OTQ look like.

I am in SoCal myself and have a 60" LCD Sony and my HD looks excellent. One thing to keep in mind... HD is still a mixed back.. Some of it looks amazing and some of it looks ok... Reason is that some of it is bad transfers, cheap conversations etc... Not all looks amazing.. but you should be able to find the good stuff on HDNet and Discovery and if those are not impressing then something is still not right.
Thanks for the ideas - So what HD channels would be affected by the low signal on 129 (I just checked it again and it is now 52%. Should this warrant a return visit from an installer.
 

· 622 Tips & Trick Keeper
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I would say so.. Check all the transponders for 129 and report those numbers back so someone that is more knowledgeable. As for Channels. Well you can see that on the Dish chart at(will take a bit to download). If you are having one channel that you seeing a lot of issues.. Use the Dish Chart to find the Dish and transponder then use your Dish signal strength screen to see what the value is.

http://ekb.dbstalk.com/dishlist.htm

However, I should note that with digital signal the symptom is usually audio loss and lot of micro-blocking. At this point I am not sure if what you are seeing is pixelization or what I would call graininess... Pixelization would be bigger pieces of the picture breaking up while graininess looks like what happens when you take a digital picture and apply a unsharp filter that is set too high or when you shoot a ISO 1600 picture in low light.

Sorry but that is the best way I can describe the difference... what are you seeing?
 

· Godfather
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292 Posts
Ron Barry said:
Here is what I would suggest.

5) Another suggestion would be to get a DVD calibration disk like AVIA and calibrate your settings...
The problem with that is that you're "calibrating" your DVD player and NOT the TV with those discs.
 

· Legend
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224 Posts
Take a digital photo and post it here so we can see what you are talking about instead of guessing.
 

· New Member
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bruin95 said:
The problem with that is that you're "calibrating" your DVD player and NOT the TV with those discs.
Not really. The changes are being made on the TV, not on the DVD player. However, you are right in that you are calibrating to the DVD players output, and not the SAT receiver's output. The DVD player and SAT box most likely put out slightly different signals so calibrating to the DVD player will not be optimum for the SAT receiver, but it will be a MARKED improvement over out of the box TV calibration and will potentially save you from burning in your new plasma.

I think HDnet shows some test patterns to calibrate your TV to the SAT receiver. Not sure what time they're on, but I think it's early in the morning. You could record them and use them to calibrate your SAT output.
 

· Hall Of Fame
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trpltongue said:
I think HDnet shows some test patterns to calibrate your TV to the SAT receiver. Not sure what time they're on, but I think it's early in the morning. You could record them and use them to calibrate your SAT output.
I used the HDnet test patterns on my Sony 34" xbr and it worked great to fix the overscan problem I was having.
 

· 622 Tips & Trick Keeper
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bruin95 said:
The problem with that is that you're "calibrating" your DVD player and NOT the TV with those discs.
Well it is better than nothing and will get you close with your 622. You could get the TV professionally calibrated.. that would be the other option. I consider AVIA the cheap mans calibration and it was a good first pass for me. ofcourse you might need to do some cable swapping

Another other option is to use the HDNet pattern but I never done that one and now sure how much value it would provide.
 

· Hall Of Fame
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1,086 Posts
Next HD NET test pattern is coming up Sunday 6:50 AM EST. Get the signal back up 52 isn't worth a S**t. If they can't get it into more than the 60's then it is time for a 2nd dish to peak up the signal on 129.
 

· Legend
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117 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
dbconsultant said:
I used the HDnet test patterns on my Sony 34" xbr and it worked great to fix the overscan problem I was having.
Sorry for the questions - But where would I find instructions on how to use the HDNet calibration patterns if I record them(Does it include instructions in the program)

This is all new to me, but I appreciate everybodies help
 

· Legend
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117 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Ron Barry said:
I would say so.. Check all the transponders for 129 and report those numbers back so someone that is more knowledgeable. As for Channels. Well you can see that on the Dish chart at(will take a bit to download). If you are having one channel that you seeing a lot of issues.. Use the Dish Chart to find the Dish and transponder then use your Dish signal strength screen to see what the value is.

http://ekb.dbstalk.com/dishlist.htm

However, I should note that with digital signal the symptom is usually audio loss and lot of micro-blocking. At this point I am not sure if what you are seeing is pixelization or what I would call graininess... Pixelization would be bigger pieces of the picture breaking up while graininess looks like what happens when you take a digital picture and apply a unsharp filter that is set too high or when you shoot a ISO 1600 picture in low light.

Sorry but that is the best way I can describe the difference... what are you seeing?
Graininess is what I am seeing, but I am not sure if my expectations are too high.

For example,I was watching NFLHD and the picture looked awful but my colleage mentioned al ot of those games could be in SD rebroadcasted in HD which would explain why they looked bad.
- although my first recorded program(Heroes - Network HD) had green blocks and freezes in a few places as well, but I was messing with the reciever and might have bumped it which caused it)
 

· New Member
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Guitar1969 said:
Graininess is what I am seeing, but I am not sure if my expectations are too high.

For example,I was watching NFLHD and the picture looked awful but my colleage mentioned al ot of those games could be in SD rebroadcasted in HD which would explain why they looked bad.
- although my first recorded program(Heroes - Network HD) had green blocks and freezes in a few places as well, but I was messing with the reciever and might have bumped it which caused it)
NFLHD does not show much in actual HD. Go to Discovery Channel HD to get a good Idea of what HD should look like. HDnet is another good one to look at. Monday Night Football on ESPNHD always looks good to me.....but again ESPNHD also shows a lot of SD content.

Green Blocks and freezes sound like signal dropout to me (99.99% that is signal loss). Network HD is "over the air" and if you don't have a strong solid signal you will get green blocks and freezes. However that being said if you do have a strong signal then over the air HD should show you a fantastic picture (providing the content is being presented in HD.)
 

· 622 Tips & Trick Keeper
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Good Sample is also NBC Sunday night game. For some reason that always looks good. Also... You have a 50" TV.. How far are you viewing it from. Viewing distances also is a factor in perceived PQ. If you are 4 to 5' from the set you want find the picture as appealing as 9 to 10' from the set.

Definitely check sat strength for the channel you are getting heroes form. Also.. Still need to look at your 129 numbers. the number you threw out is too low.
 

· Legend
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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Ron Barry said:
Good Sample is also NBC Sunday night game. For some reason that always looks good. Also... You have a 50" TV.. How far are you viewing it from. Viewing distances also is a factor in perceived PQ. If you are 4 to 5' from the set you want find the picture as appealing as 9 to 10' from the set.

Definitely check sat strength for the channel you are getting heroes form. Also.. Still need to look at your 129 numbers. the number you threw out is too low.
Here are my Transponder strengths on 129:
1 = 50
2 = 56
4 = 60
5 = 61
6 = 51
7 = 56
8 = 59
9 = 62
10 = 78
11 = 56
12 = 59
13 = 76
16 = 58
17 = 62
18 = 50
19 = 80
21 = 61
22 = 55
23 = 58
27 = 57
30 = 79
31 = 86
32 = 61

I am in the Los Angeles Market so I am not sure how these strengths affect me, although according to the dish chart I downloaded I am recieving quite a bit of content from 129.

I am set to record the HDNet tsat pattern to see if that helps, but any assistance you can provide on whether or not these signal strengths need to be addressed by Dish Techs would be appreciated.

Thanks
 
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