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Legend
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Just switched to a 70" SXRD from a 55". One thing I've noticed is how crappy HD is with D*. We are watching the UCLA-USC game, and switched from the D* mpeg2 ABC HD feed to OTA KABC, and it is night and day difference. So dissapointed with D* and their compression.

HD quality truly has reached a new low. Very unacceptable. If it wasn't for NFL ticket it would be over for many of us, D* knows this. I don't see PQ getting any better.

Very impressed with the OTA receiver in the XBR2, locks on every channel. Excellent picture, I love this TV. At least I have OTA that works...
 

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Gotchaa said:
Just switched to a 70" SXRD from a 55". One thing I've noticed is how crappy HD is with D*. We are watching the UCLA-USC game, and switched from the D* mpeg2 ABC HD feed to OTA KABC, and it is night and day difference. So dissapointed with D* and their compression.

HD quality truly has reached a new low. Very unacceptable. If it wasn't for NFL ticket it would be over for many of us, D* knows this. I don't see PQ getting any better.

Very impressed with the OTA receiver in the XBR2, locks on every channel. Excellent picture, I love this TV. At least I have OTA that works...
I think you need to check the new mpeg4 locals, they look very comparable to OTA, I believe Directv is on the right path with their HD. Sorry you had a bad night, were you a usc fan?
 

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Legend
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stuart628 said:
I think you need to check the new mpeg4 locals, they look very comparable to OTA, I believe Directv is on the right path with their HD. Sorry you had a bad night, were you a usc fan?
Absolutely! Aside from SC losing on both Channels:mad: there is hardly any difference!
 

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Beware the Attack Basset
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24,450 Posts
CousCous said:
How does this relate to the HR20?
It relates because there was a veiled dig about OTA.

If you notice, there is no generic DirecTV HD forum; you either post to the HR20 forum or the Non-DVR HD forum.
 

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Legend
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
BillPear said:
Absolutely! Aside from SC losing on both Channels:mad: there is hardly any difference!
Sorry, I'm a Bruin, looks like you'll get another [email protected] the Rose bowl

How this relates, I am watching off the HR20, OTA is still not functioning. And no, the MPEG4 HD channel is not better than the OTA KABC HD feed here in Los Angeles. Your mileage may vary.

So whether it's the MPEG2/4 decoder in the HR20 or just poor quality which I am just now seeing with a larger display, it's just plain bad.

I am noticing this on all D* HD sources, maybe it's the HR20, but I am betting it's the feed.

GO BRUINS!
 

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Legend
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
bonscott87 said:
Red Wings/Sharks game on HDNet looking pretty awesome tonight!

My MPEG4 locals look nearly the same as OTA which means great quality. But not all markets have the new MPEG4 encoders so your market may not have been changed yet.
Here in LA we have both channels MPEG2 and MPEG4, watching the Arkansas/Florida game switching between KCBS MPEG4 and KCBS OTA, OTA is clearly better. I do find that HDNET is among the best HD channels D* has.
 

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Gotchaa said:
Sorry, I'm a Bruin, looks like you'll get another [email protected] the Rose bowl

How this relates, I am watching off the HR20, OTA is still not functioning. And no, the MPEG4 HD channel is not better than the OTA KABC HD feed here in Los Angeles. Your mileage may vary.

So whether it's the MPEG2/4 decoder in the HR20 or just poor quality which I am just now seeing with a larger display, it's just plain bad.

I am noticing this on all D* HD sources, maybe it's the HR20, but I am betting it's the feed.

GO BRUINS!
your original post stated you were watching via mpeg2, thats where I got confused, sorry!
 

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Legend
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Im noticing D Hd declining since the first day I had it. I have a sony wega 32 inch tube. Wasnt Impressed with the pq of the usc/ucla game. I agree hdnet is some of the best on D tnthd to me is not so great. i see so much grain espcially on tnthd.Im going to get an ota antenna for my h20. cant wait to see the difference between d and ota
 

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Legend
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
stuart628 said:
your original post stated you were watching via mpeg2, thats where I got confused, sorry!
actually I was watching the MPEG2 feed, was recording the game on 87 (user error), then switched to kabc 7 which is the MPEG4 feed here, kabc7 was better than 87 ABCW, but OTA looked better than both, had to keep the guests happy, OTA it was. They kinda hurt my feelings when they said, wow so HD on a big screen isn't that sharp (when on 87). Switch to OTA and they were impressed. Then put on Batman Begins on HD DVD, and their jaws dropped.

I think what it is, when you start raising the bar on what is reference it's hard to go back in PQ. I had the same experiencing going from SD/DVD to HD years ago. Now we have formats that really show what our displays are capable of (Blu-ray and HD DVD), and it's just hard to go back and watch D* HD movies, macroblock city. And I don't see how PQ is going to get better with more HD channels to be added. Only reason I'm holding out is NFL ticket and the 150 national HDs we've been promised! Oh and of course OTA on the HR20 should be here any day now ;0)
 

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Cool Member
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506PIR said:
Im noticing D Hd declining since the first day I had it. I have a sony wega 32 inch tube. Wasnt Impressed with the pq of the usc/ucla game. I agree hdnet is some of the best on D tnthd to me is not so great. i see so much grain espcially on tnthd.Im going to get an ota antenna for my h20. cant wait to see the difference between d and ota
I have an excellent OTA signal to NewYork and I can't see the difference. Picture is beautiful, both from OTA and Directv. I use the 10-250 with a Pioneer plasma. I've discussed this with a buddy of mine that has the HR20 with a 70" Samsung LCD and he can't see a difference.
 

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Legend
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191 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Kirkman said:
I have an excellent OTA signal to NewYork and I can't see the difference. Picture is beautiful, both from OTA and Directv. I use the 10-250 with a Pioneer plasma. I've discussed this with a buddy of mine that has the HR20 with a 70" Samsung LCD and he can't see a difference.
Sounds like your lucky, can't really compare two different stations in different markets.

I have the HR10-250 as well, and I know that OTA receiver on the HR10 is not as good as the H20 D* HD Receiver. Assuming when the HR20 is activated, I'd expect it too look similar to the H20. But that still isn't going to change the excessive compression D* applies to HD channels, some HD channels at different times look amazing (like 2001 on HDnet), but mostly it's just become pretty sad now. Most people who are just getting into HD won't really notice the difference or care for that matter. Unfortunately I don't fall in either of those categories.

TimeWarner/Comcast in our area has HD locals that look better than D*'s HD Locals.
 

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Legend in his own mind...
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324 Posts
stuart628 said:
I think you need to check the new mpeg4 locals, they look very comparable to OTA, I believe Directv is on the right path with their HD. Sorry you had a bad night, were you a usc fan?
Actually now they're horrible as compared to OTA. Tearing, macroblocking, checkerboarding... They're better than SD, but nothing like OTA.

And has anyone noticed that the MPEG4 encoders don't know how to keep a color reference? The colors, especially blue/greens, shift ever so slightly every few seconds. It's very noticable on a football game, when the green from the field is onscreen on a sideline-view camera with skin tones.
 

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Godfather
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281 Posts
First post. From reading all this, I'm becoming more and more convinced that when I buy an HDTV in January, I'll be switching to my local cable provider for all HD (and getting a TiVo Series 3 Box), and dialing back my D* to the cheapest possible package except during football season.

How sad. I really just want D* and HDTV and a good DVR. Oh well.

(FYI - I currently have D* with a Sony Sat-T60; and have been using D* since 1999 and am one of their most valued customers, I assume, given that I've had NFL plus platinum that entire time.)

Very sad. When I first picked up D*, it had the best picture quality, even compared to cable.
 

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Legend
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206 Posts
oenophile said:
First post. From reading all this, I'm becoming more and more convinced that when I buy an HDTV in January, I'll be switching to my local cable provider for all HD (and getting a TiVo Series 3 Box), and dialing back my D* to the cheapest possible package except during football season.

How sad. I really just want D* and HDTV and a good DVR. Oh well.

(FYI - I currently have D* with a Sony Sat-T60; and have been using D* since 1999 and am one of their most valued customers, I assume, given that I've had NFL plus platinum that entire time.)

Very sad. When I first picked up D*, it had the best picture quality, even compared to cable.
oenophile:

As far as HD goes, the first growth premier grand crus will always be OTA broadcasts. I have had D* HD since 2002 with OTA also. It has never shown any improvement. In fact there are some nights here in LA when have to Look at 83 (NBC West) and wonder if Jay Leno is actually recording in SD when I watch the feed. Tuesdays recording was a great example. Discovery HD is the closest I have seen to the original MPEG-2 feeds of locals transmited back in 2004.

I doubt that - in keeping with our analogy - D* will ever produce a picture on HD with its high compression rates to compare with even a generic Napa Cab, let alone reach better bordeau quality. Given their subscriber base most of which I imagine don't know the difference between 1080i and 1080p let alone own a HD set, I think they are happy with 2 buck chuck from our good friend Robert Shaw.

No bashing here - D* needs to just turn on the HR20's OTA and we can all move on to bigger issues with the box and service like its recording reliability for those that can't use OTA and are stuck with MPEG4 locals.

Welcome to the forum oenophile. Cheers :cheers2: (and nice blog by the way).
 

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Godfather
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I noticed bad macroblocking on both the UCLA-USC and OU-Nebraska games, I switched to the antenna input on my TV and going to OTA did not fix a thing as it was there also just as bad. So in this area it was whatever signal that ABC was sending and not a D* issue.
 

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Legend in his own mind...
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324 Posts
bluedogok said:
I noticed bad macroblocking on both the UCLA-USC and OU-Nebraska games, I switched to the antenna input on my TV and going to OTA did not fix a thing as it was there also just as bad. So in this area it was whatever signal that ABC was sending and not a D* issue.
I've recorded several things on my HR20 that I've been saving just so that I can take some pictures of the screen. I can easily pause the image and capture the screen tearing.

The common problem on my end is the MPEG4 delivery. Things on ESPN-HD and the other nationals look pretty good (except for when they knock down the bandwidth).
 
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