[Renard]

Pictures are better than words.
These pictures have been taken this morning at 6.00 Am.
Look at the HUGE vertical stripes on the screen. (echoes) :eek2: :nono2: :nono:
(Pictures taken on my HR20-700 connected on a LCD (HDMI)
Hopefully the PQ would get better once they switch to digital because now it sucks.

 

[carl6]

Just checked it here (10:30 am or so). No where near as bad as your experience, but you can still see the ghosting lines on the SE28 channel. I've got the AM21 hooked up, and toggling between 28.1 and 28 it's easy to see the difference.

Carl

 

[Renard]

Just checked it here (10:30 am or so). No where near as bad as your experience, but you can still see the ghosting lines on the SE28 channel. I've got the AM21 hooked up, and toggling between 28.1 and 28 it's easy to see the difference.

Carl

For some unknown reason, they didn't broadcast a picture for 1 hour
We could really see the REAL PQ for this channel at that time:eek2:

 

[litzdog911]

Fortunately these problems with our local SD channels should all be a thing-of-the-past after Feb 2009 when the analog transmissions die. Of course, they could solve it now if they stopped using off-air reception to uplink these channels to DirecTV.

 

[bobnielsen]

KBTC has always been pretty bad via satellite.

The Seattle locals are scheduled to switch to using the digital signals (still off-air) on September 29 (it was scheduled for September 1, but that slipped: http://mstv.org/docs/satschedalpha.pdf

 

[carl6]

Interesting list Bob. I'm guessing N/A means they don't have locals in that market. If so, there are 3 N/A's in the Dish column and over 20 in the DirecTV column. I didn't count check marks, but it looked like they were about even in that regard.

Carl

 

[1948GG]

BOTH KTBC/PBS/Tacoma AND KCTS/PBS/Seattle have provided digital SD on their broadcast UHF/Digital channel for a VERY long time.

The problem from DirecTV's standpoint is, just like virtually every other PBS station in the country, is that they won't/can't seem to keep their act together.

In short, the SD/Digital 4x3 feed may be on subchannel 9.1 (or in the case of KTBC 28.1) today, and then tomorrow, be off somewhere else. The same with the other subchannels, including the HD feed.

Unless and until (right...!) either the local engineering staff, or PBS as a whole, takes a stand as to WHICH subchannel is to be used PERMANENTLY for whatever part of their signal, then how in the world can the carriers (Dish, Comcast, DirecTV, Verizon, whoever) put the equipment in place to properly 'grab' the signal to provide to their subscribers.

In My Opinion (take it for what it's worth), this is simply yet another result of the elimination of the FCC engineering license requirements some 25 years ago. I just have to smile at how 'deregulation' causes 'unintended consequences', yet this was fully predicted by those in the field at the time it occured.

The 'digital transition' simply adds more opportunity to point it out! To those who want more 'fun with broadcasting', point your browser to the 'fun in Wilmington (NC)' going on as we type away.

 

[Renard]

BOTH KTBC/PBS/Tacoma AND KCTS/PBS/Seattle have provided digital SD on their broadcast UHF/Digital channel for a VERY long time.

The problem from DirecTV's standpoint is, just like virtually every other PBS station in the country, is that they won't/can't seem to keep their act together.

In short, the SD/Digital 4x3 feed may be on subchannel 9.1 (or in the case of KTBC 28.1) today, and then tomorrow, be off somewhere else. The same with the other subchannels, including the HD feed.

Unless and until (right...!) either the local engineering staff, or PBS as a whole, takes a stand as to WHICH subchannel is to be used PERMANENTLY for whatever part of their signal, then how in the world can the carriers (Dish, Comcast, DirecTV, Verizon, whoever) put the equipment in place to properly 'grab' the signal to provide to their subscribers.

In My Opinion (take it for what it's worth), this is simply yet another result of the elimination of the FCC engineering license requirements some 25 years ago. I just have to smile at how 'deregulation' causes 'unintended consequences', yet this was fully predicted by those in the field at the time it occured.

The 'digital transition' simply adds more opportunity to point it out! To those who want more 'fun with broadcasting', point your browser to the 'fun in Wilmington (NC)' going on as we type away.

I have a hard time to believe that Directv, the channel(s) are not aware of this situation and are not doing something to fix this HORRIBLE PQ :eek2:
C'mon guys, wake up and do something about it

 

[1948GG]

I have a hard time to believe that Directv, the channel(s) are not aware of this situation and are not doing something to fix this HORRIBLE PQ :eek2:
C'mon guys, wake up and do something about it

And, how do you propose they do it? Put a live person at the Seattle signals collection facility (at the Westin downtown, I believe)? Who's going to pay for that?

And, why should they do it when both DirecTV and the other carriers have been publicly complaining to the FCC for what, at least 2-3 years about the broadcasters (PBS and all the others) dragging their feet on this issue.

I see it simply as another way the cablecos are going to slam the national satellite carriers, because they have failed to pay for multiple fiber runs to all of the local broadcasters. Of course, the cablecos get a HUGE discount from the local incumbent telcos for such fiber feeds, which the satellite folks have to pay top dollar for.

So, until the FCC starts laying down the law on these broadcasters, we get either substandard service, or pay excessive prices. So far, it's a game of 'chicken' between the three (broadcasters, FCC, DirecTV). News at 11 (read: the day before the digital transition).

 

[skyboysea]

I have a hard time to believe that Directv, the channel(s) are not aware of this situation and are not doing something to fix this HORRIBLE PQ :eek2:
C'mon guys, wake up and do something about it

They all are aware of the bad picture quality, they just don't care to work together to fix it. In the past I complained with both KCTS and DirecTv about channel 9 and the answer I got from both was "talk to the other guy, it is not our fault."
And it is not either a problem of fiber or OTA. There is no reason why the signal received by an OTA antenna can't be good as long as the signal collection facility is placed in a favorable spot. Maybe now they are moving to the Columbia Tower and switching to digital things will improve since there shouldn't be any problem getting a clear signal up there.

 

[carl6]

I don't know, I think the roof of the Columbia Tower is worse than the roof of the Westin as to rf interference. But it's been a few years since I've been on either roof, things change. But the Westin is better designed for hauling the signal out of there once it has been received, and should be no problem to get a good channel 9 signal. Problem is, you put up an antenna, aim it, get everything good and a week later someone else puts a dish up in front of it.

Carl

 

[1948GG]

I don't know, I think the roof of the Columbia Tower is worse than the roof of the Westin as to rf interference. But it's been a few years since I've been on either roof, things change. But the Westin is better designed for hauling the signal out of there once it has been received, and should be no problem to get a good channel 9 signal. Problem is, you put up an antenna, aim it, get everything good and a week later someone else puts a dish up in front of it.

Carl

The last time I did any microwave from the Westin was... 2000. But I was in and out of there on switch and fiber jobs just about every year or two between 1994 and when I retired in 2002. If whoever controls the roof space is doing their job (again, right!), there shouldn't be any problems.

But DirecTV made the decision (nationwide) a long time ago to rely on grabbing the OTA for the feeds, preferable the digital (rather than analog, which of course disappears next February anyway), if, as I pointed out, the station will stop the 'subchannel roulette'. Fat Chance with PBS, until the HQ in DC lays down the law.

 

[skyboysea]

I am not sure if Directv signal collection facility is at the Westin. An address I found on their website some time ago was for a building in the Sodo district.

 

[T_N_T]

Are all the PBS stations delivered to D* via UHF/Analog, because and I haven't noticed it before but now I see that both PBS stations I receive(WNPT-8 Nashville TN & WCTE-22 Cookeville) have ghosting effects, poor sound quality and rather crummy video quality.

 

[pbg]

I am not sure if Directv signal collection facility is at the Westin. An address I found on their website some time ago was for a building in the Sodo district.

yes, you are correct. Here's a shot of that facility down in SODO / Georgetown:

 

[carl6]

Now that is an old picture. I remember that place. It's not there any more. Look at the car at the tip of the boot - gives you a clue as to the time frame.

Carl

 

[bobnielsen]

Here's a link to the collection facilities: http://mstv.org/docs/satdirectcoll.xls.

For Seattle, it shows Columbia Center, 701 5th Avenue. I think the analog signals are picked up at a different location, which may be the Westin.

 

[bobnielsen]

BOTH KTBC/PBS/Tacoma AND KCTS/PBS/Seattle have provided digital SD on their broadcast UHF/Digital channel for a VERY long time.

The problem from DirecTV's standpoint is, just like virtually every other PBS station in the country, is that they won't/can't seem to keep their act together.

In short, the SD/Digital 4x3 feed may be on subchannel 9.1 (or in the case of KTBC 28.1) today, and then tomorrow, be off somewhere else. The same with the other subchannels, including the HD feed.

Unless and until (right...!) either the local engineering staff, or PBS as a whole, takes a stand as to WHICH subchannel is to be used PERMANENTLY for whatever part of their signal, then how in the world can the carriers (Dish, Comcast, DirecTV, Verizon, whoever) put the equipment in place to properly 'grab' the signal to provide to their subscribers.

In My Opinion (take it for what it's worth), this is simply yet another result of the elimination of the FCC engineering license requirements some 25 years ago. I just have to smile at how 'deregulation' causes 'unintended consequences', yet this was fully predicted by those in the field at the time it occured.

The 'digital transition' simply adds more opportunity to point it out! To those who want more 'fun with broadcasting', point your browser to the 'fun in Wilmington (NC)' going on as we type away.

It looks like KCTS 9 has settled down, with only one feed (9.1 HD) for all of the main programming. There are now two subchannels, 9.2 (V-Me) and 9.3 (Create) at fairly low bit rates. This change happened on Sept. 8.

 

[1948GG]

Here's a link to the collection facilities: http://mstv.org/docs/satdirectcoll.xls.

For Seattle, it shows Columbia Center, 701 5th Avenue. I think the analog signals are picked up at a different location, which may be the Westin.

You blink slow (i.e., a few years out of the business) and things change.

I've been to the very top of virtually every tall building in the U.S., including both the Trades (last time, 1996; security pass had to be obtained WEEKS in advance), the Empire State, both the Sears and Hancock in Chicago, and the US Bank Tower in LA (originally the First Interstate before they went bust!).

And, since it's in the news, the Chase tower in Houston. The high speed passenger elevators in that building are HUGE, make a big impression!
(and virtually all the other towers in downtown Houston as well, did a LOT of work there in the mid to late 80's)
The 'neatest' by far, though is the Williams Tower out on the 'loop', really neat how they got the microwave and satellite dishes at the top, 'fully enclosed' with rubberized canvas sides and tops, making it appear (from the ground) to simply be more of the top of the tower.

Oh well, those were the days!

You might have noticed that KCTS has 'shifted' the 'bug' logo toward the center as well, so that the carriers can 'center cut' the HD feed for 4x3 and have the logo still in the frame. I really dislike that, but I guess it's a 'sign of the times' for lazy broadcasters.

 

[bobnielsen]

You blink slow (i.e., a few years out of the business) and things change.

I've been to the very top of virtually every tall building in the U.S., including both the Trades (last time, 1996; security pass had to be obtained WEEKS in advance), the Empire State, both the Sears and Hancock in Chicago, and the US Bank Tower in LA (originally the First Interstate before they went bust!).

And, since it's in the news, the Chase tower in Houston. The high speed passenger elevators in that building are HUGE, make a big impression!
(and virtually all the other towers in downtown Houston as well, did a LOT of work there in the mid to late 80's)
The 'neatest' by far, though is the Williams Tower out on the 'loop', really neat how they got the microwave and satellite dishes at the top, 'fully enclosed' with rubberized canvas sides and tops, making it appear (from the ground) to simply be more of the top of the tower.

Oh well, those were the days!

You might have noticed that KCTS has 'shifted' the 'bug' logo toward the center as well, so that the carriers can 'center cut' the HD feed for 4x3 and have the logo still in the frame. I really dislike that, but I guess it's a 'sign of the times' for lazy broadcasters.

They are all doing that. At least some of the bugs are semi-transparent.

A friend of mine here on Bainbridge showed me some photos from when he was working on some of the antennas on the Empire State building. I suppose you get used to it.

A colleague from years back was doing some work at Eglin AFB, FL and had to go up the 1000 ft tower which had an elevator but after you got as far as it would go, you needed to climb outside to go the rest of the way.

My wife has a fit when I go up on my single story roof.