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· Lifetime Achiever
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Thank you to the many Directv programmers working long hours fixing the HR20 problems. Your management team is sending kudos about your efforts that I wanted to echo. I gathered that many of you read these forums, so please accept the thanks from me (and I'm suspecting many others here.)

There are many things I'd like to do before I start driving home that I'm not going to accomplish. But this is one that had to be done now.

Keep up the good job!
Tom
 

· Patiently Impatient
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191 Posts
Are you serious?

Not being rude, I just do not know.

I would think the product would be working properly when they shipped it. It figures that Directv would ship an item, only to allow their own customers to become guinea pigs and beta testers.
 

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WolfClan Dan said:
Are you serious?

Not being rude, I just do not know.

I would think the product would be working properly when they shipped it. It figures that Directv would ship an item, only to allow their own customers to become guinea pigs and beta testers.
If you think only DTV has issues with shipped products then you should probably search just about any product forum.
 

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WolfClan Dan said:
Are you serious?

Not being rude, I just do not know.

I would think the product would be working properly when they shipped it. It figures that Directv would ship an item, only to allow their own customers to become guinea pigs and beta testers.
If that was the case, all HR20's would still be in the warehouse, and most of the posters on this fourm would be screeming to get it released. Many knew the HR20 was flawed but got it anyway.

Many here enjoy being beta testers. :)

Personally, I enjoy being part of the solution.
 

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tibber said:
Thank you to the many Directv programmers working long hours fixing the HR20 problems. Your management team is sending kudos about your efforts that I wanted to echo. I gathered that many of you read these forums, so please accept the thanks from me (and I'm suspecting many others here.)

There are many things I'd like to do before I start driving home that I'm not going to accomplish. But this is one that had to be done now.

Keep up the good job!
Tom
Thanks, Tom. Definitely needed saying. Despite some of the flack that will be posted over this and despite the problems that we're all well aware of, I think most of the D* employees, programmers and CSRs deserve a pat on the back. Life is tough when you are the bleeding edge. Maybe non-of this stuff by itself is "bleeding" but putting together in a package like this (which includes all the future options that are expected) is all blood and guts. Those who are unhappy with the problems won't agree, but I'm pleased with the box, the massive effort to correct problems and support I usually receive from D* employees. (One bad apple or three don't make a company.)
 

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WolfClan Dan said:
Are you serious?

Not being rude, I just do not know.

I would think the product would be working properly when they shipped it. It figures that Directv would ship an item, only to allow their own customers to become guinea pigs and beta testers.
Unfortunately, many products make it off of the assembly line before they are ready. Sometimes it is sloppy coding (in which the QA team should pick it up), poor quality testing, contractual obligations, or a push by marketing.

I am a programmer. Not for D*, but for a private business. I have put out some code that wasn't ready. I've informed the powers that be that there are issues and it's not ready. Many times it's issues beyond the programmer's control (waiting for a software fix, waiting on specs, etc.). However, management will insist it still goes out, figuring that not many people will hit that one particular function. As it is, the customers do hit that function and get very upset.

While it may seem that there may be a lot of bugs listed on this site, most of the people on this site also push their TVs, DVRs, etc. They may hit functionality that the average person does not.

So rather than blast D* and making it a blanket statement, it might be good to just report the bugs so that those in charge can make the fixes.
 

· Lifetime Achiever
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
WolfClan Dan said:
Are you serious?

Not being rude, I just do not know.

I would think the product would be working properly when they shipped it. It figures that Directv would ship an item, only to allow their own customers to become guinea pigs and beta testers.
Is ok, this is a good question for me to answer. Yes, I was being very serious. Now that I've met people, it is very hard for me to think of them as "the nameless person who caused all the problems." And I remembered some of the comments from other programmers here that the front-line gals and guys are doing their very best and do not make the release decisions. Exactly as Purtman indicates in his post.

So when key management tell me kudos about the hours the front line is putting in, I felt they deserved thanks from me too. And anyone else who wishes to share that feeling.

Cheers,
Tom
 

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Clint Lamor said:
If you think only DTV has issues with shipped products then you should probably search just about any product forum.
I currently have the following 'products':
* Sony TV - 5 years - not a single problem
* Pioneer A/V rcvr - 3 years - no problems
* Sony DVD Recorder - 13 months - no problems
* Toshiba ProgScan DVD - 3 years - no problems
* RCA DTV SD Rcvr - 4 years - had to power off/on once that i can remember
* RCA DVR39 DTiVo DVR - 3 years 10 months - tuner 2 died
* Sony Vaio PC - 3 years - no problems
* iPod nano - 6 months - no problems
* Netopia ADSL/WiFi router - bought on eBay 1 year ago used - no problems

* DTV R15 - 4 months - needs reset on average every 2 weeks at best, occaisionally misses recordings or records blank space, cannot reliably discern repeat versus first run programs, VOD progress bar usually freezes at some point during playback, FF-RW-JUMP controls unstable. and these are the 'common' problems many users still report after nearly 1 year in the field.

The DTV dvrs were rushed to market before they were debugged, plain and simple. DTV had to shove something out there to replace the TiVo devices after the partnership was terminated.
 

· Patiently Impatient
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191 Posts
lwilli201 said:
If that was the case, all HR20's would still be in the warehouse, and most of the posters on this fourm would be screeming to get it released. Many knew the HR20 was flawed but got it anyway.

Many here enjoy being beta testers. :)

Personally, I enjoy being part of the solution.
beta testing is fantastic, when one knows they are a beta tester. i guess i missed the disclaimer.
 

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purtman said:
Unfortunately, many products make it off of the assembly line before they are ready. Sometimes it is sloppy coding (in which the QA team should pick it up), poor quality testing, contractual obligations, or a push by marketing.

I am a programmer. Not for D*, but for a private business. I have put out some code that wasn't ready. I've informed the powers that be that there are issues and it's not ready. Many times it's issues beyond the programmer's control (waiting for a software fix, waiting on specs, etc.). However, management will insist it still goes out, figuring that not many people will hit that one particular function. As it is, the customers do hit that function and get very upset.

While it may seem that there may be a lot of bugs listed on this site, most of the people on this site also push their TVs, DVRs, etc. They may hit functionality that the average person does not.

So rather than blast D* and making it a blanket statement, it might be good to just report the bugs so that those in charge can make the fixes.
If it can be updated later... it will be ship before it's ready!

Most things don't take THIS long to fix but, some do.

[edit] Does anyone take screen caps of the 1st page in the forum?
[2nd edit] General and HR20
 

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BattleScott said:
I currently have the following 'products':
* Sony TV - 5 years - not a single problem
* Pioneer A/V rcvr - 3 years - no problems
* Sony DVD Recorder - 13 months - no problems
* Toshiba ProgScan DVD - 3 years - no problems
* RCA DTV SD Rcvr - 4 years - had to power off/on once that i can remember
* RCA DVR39 DTiVo DVR - 3 years 10 months - tuner 2 died
* Sony Vaio PC - 3 years - no problems
* iPod nano - 6 months - no problems
* Netopia ADSL/WiFi router - bought on eBay 1 year ago used - no problems

* DTV R15 - 4 months - needs reset on average every 2 weeks at best, occaisionally misses recordings or records blank space, cannot reliably discern repeat versus first run programs, VOD progress bar usually freezes at some point during playback, FF-RW-JUMP controls unstable. and these are the 'common' problems many users still report after nearly 1 year in the field.

The DTV dvrs were rushed to market before they were debugged, plain and simple. DTV had to shove something out there to replace the TiVo devices after the partnership was terminated.
Give me some model numbers and I will bet you I can find more then a few posts about every last one of them being garbage or having X Y or Z . I have a 4gb IPod nano that has scrathces all over it because Apple released them using a bad cover. Was I mad? Yes did they still release it knowing it could be scratched very easily? Yes

No releasing a product with problems is NEVER a good thing to do but it happens. You are havin issues some of us don't have and some other do have with your R15, my only major complaint with the R15 is that it records repeats on some of my shows when it shouldn't. This gets on my nerves but I live with it. Not making excuses for anyone just stating what I see and that's is that I see people have issues with every product I have ever owned or thought about owning.
 

· Godfather
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In our "investor-driven" society that we live in, many large corporations will first do what they perceive is best for their investors instead of what is best for their customers. This is driving the overall lowering of quality and customer service across most industries.

So, how many of you own stock? How many of you are demanding premium return on that stock? If you answer "yes" to these questions, you are as much a part of the problem as the companies that we're frustrated with.

Are you a consumer that demands more capabilities for less cost? For companies to deliver on these somewhat contradicting demands, other things must be sacrificed like customer service and product reliability for example. Again, we are as much a part of the problem as the companies that we are frustrated with.
 

· Patiently Impatient
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191 Posts
Personally, I expect a product to do as advertised and am willing to pay a premium for that expectation.

In the case of the HR20, someone up top at Directv must have known of the deficiencies we have discovered.

If we are beta testers, at the very least, our HD programming should be compensated. For Directv to rely on the user to solve their issue, are we not employees who are paying the employer?
 

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WolfClan Dan said:
Personally, I expect a product to do as advertised and am willing to pay a premium for that expectation.

In the case of the HR20, someone up top at Directv must have known of the deficiencies we have discovered.

If we are beta testers, at the very least, our HD programming should be compensated. For Directv to rely on the user to solve their issue, are we not employees who are paying the employer?
You can certainly call in to Customer Service and demand compensation for your frustration. D* will not blindly give everyone with an HR20 a break. That is not their process.
 

· Patiently Impatient
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191 Posts
packfan909 said:
You can certainly call in to Customer Service and demand compensation for your frustration. D* will not blindly give everyone with an HR20 a break. That is not their process.
Actually I have, however it was not related to my HR20 issues. When I signed up I was told my locals (Buffalo) were already available in HD and I would have them. I really wanted to see the playoffs in HD.

Once everything arrived and was installed, I realized I was misinformed again. When I called, I was told I have too many credits on my account and there was nothing left to credit.

Understand, I do love Directv's programming, however, every time I have upgraded or called about an issue, the CSR either lied to me or was misinformed themselves.

I informed them I do not feel they have a right to allow CSR's to pass false information to the consumer and the fact my account has "too many credits" should speak volumes.
 

· Impossible Dreamer
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tibber said:
Is ok, this is a good question for me to answer. Yes, I was being very serious. Now that I've met people, it is very hard for me to think of them as "the nameless person who caused all the problems." And I remembered some of the comments from other programmers here that the front-line gals and guys are doing their very best and do not make the release decisions. Exactly as Purtman indicates in his post.

So when key management tell me kudos about the hours the front line is putting in, I felt they deserved thanks from me too. And anyone else who wishes to share that feeling.

Cheers,
Tom
I think that's fair. The programmers are obviously working hard on this box, and I'm sure they are doing their best to make it work properly. They aren't the folks who decided to release it too early due to market pressures and have the beta testing done by (mostly unwitting) customers.

So I will add my thanks to them for the work they're doing, and continue to hope that the combined efforts of everyone, including those of us reporting bugs/issues here, will result in a reliable box in the near future.
 
G

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WolfClan Dan said:
I would think the product would be working properly when they shipped it. It figures that Directv would ship an item, only to allow their own customers to become guinea pigs and beta testers.
Sounds like you're one of the few who have never used any Microsoft products.
 
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