DBSTalk Forum banner
Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 20 of 39 Posts

· New Member
Joined
·
3 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I came back to DirecTV after trying Time Warner's garbage DVRs. I had most of my own DTV boxes and I turned down DTV's offers because I did not want to be locked into a term commitment.

I then purchased two Tivo boxes at full retail from an online merchant with HDD and cooling upgrades. After activating the new boxes, I was informed that I was now on a two year commitment since they are HD-DVRs. I am also being charged the lease amount for those two boxes.

DirecTV has stated that as of March 1st, all HD-DVRs require a two year term. After discussions with several of their departments, their position is as follows:

Any HD-DVR activated after March 1st 2006 is assumed to be leased equipment and as such, comes with a two year term. DirecTV claims that they have no way to know which of their boxes are leased therefor, they require proof from the subscriber of their purchase, the price, terms, etc. They have told me that I need to prove that I did not buy leased equipment.

I know a scam when I see one. DirecTV has not sold Tivo boves since March. There is no way that I am going to believe that DirecTV doesn't know which equipment belongs to them or has been subsidized. Upon activation, they get the model, serial number and card number. How could they possibly not track their own equipment?

I think its about money! Bill thousands of people a few buck a month and make it a time consuming intrusion to save the few bucks and most people will just pay it. I'll bet they are making millions on this little scam.

I have refused to provide proof of purchase on principle! Its none of their business what I paid, how I paid or to whom. If it was a purchase through one of their retail outlets, they would have received confirmation from them. This is a scam!!!

Anyone have any rational words of advise? Any suggestions aside from "bend over and do what DTV wants"?

Thanks
 

· Lifetime Achiever
Joined
·
30,090 Posts
Actually..

Yes, they where selling the HR10-250 up to the week after the HR20 was released.

The "lease" fee you are paying... is only on your 2nd box. $4.99 right?
That is the same as a mirroring fee.... So if are converted to "owned" boxes, you will still be paying the $4.99 mirroing fee...

That mirroring fee has been there since day #1 for DirecTV (11 years ago).
It is the additional fee, to share the programming from the primary access card. Instead of having a sperate programming package on the first one.

If they are not HR10-250's, then yes possible you can talk to someone with out providing proof of the purchase, as the SD-Dtivos have not been sold in a while through DirecTV.
 

· Hall Of Fame
Joined
·
1,020 Posts
Directv did sell me a tivo based HR10-250 in October well I guess I should not say sold for it is a leased box but it did come directly from Directv via their installation company and it was brand new.

EDIT: Man beat by Earl again! Man your quick! :)
 

· New Member
Joined
·
3 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
They are the HR10 250s. In reality, I was not concerned about the money as I was the term commitment. I turned down all sorts of promotional stuff just to avoid the term commitment. How do I get rid of that? Do you think its reasonable to require proof of purchase? I am open to the possiblility that I'm being unreasonable but, this thing just feels wrong to me. Having to proove that something is not leased?
Hmmm
-
 

· Cutting Edge: ECHELON '07
Joined
·
9,882 Posts
You can't avoid the commitment no matter what you do, leased or not.

Personally I could care less about hte commitment, I'm not going anywhere. I don't flip flop services every 6 months for the "better deal" and come back so I don't care. And if I were to have to move and had to move to a place that I couldn't get DirecTV they will work with you in those situations.

As for proving you "bought" it, it's like for the HR20. If you paid $749 or something then you obviously bought it and you can get it activated as owned (although it will be tough). If you paid $299 or less then it's obviously a lease and they will set it up that way. They asked me when I activated the HR20 how much I paid for it. I said $299 and she immediately went down the lease section of her call tree. If I had said $749 it would have directed her down a different path in her call tree and I'd probably have to send in some type of proof of it I'd guess.
 

· Cool Member
Joined
·
12 Posts
I purchased my HR20 from Costco for $299. I have a receipt for a purchase and at no time did I agree to a lease when I purchased my machine. The installer said DTV now owns all the equipment and everyone leases. I'm confident an attorney will get upset and file a class action suit for those of us who purchased our machines and forced to pay a lease fee. They're waiting for the fees to add up to a sizable amount before hitting DTV with the suit. I see a problem for DirecTV by acting on bad advice.
 

· Cutting Edge: ECHELON '07
Joined
·
9,882 Posts
hsreed4 said:
I purchased my HR20 from Costco for $299. I have a receipt for a purchase and at no time did I agree to a lease when I purchased my machine. The installer said DTV now owns all the equipment and everyone leases. I'm confident an attorney will get upset and file a class action suit for those of us who purchased our machines and forced to pay a lease fee. They're waiting for the fees to add up to a sizable amount before hitting DTV with the suit. I see a problem for DirecTV by acting on bad advice.
Sorry, but $299 is a leased unit plain as day.
And you're not getting it:

Buy a receiver it's $4.99 mirror fee.
Lease a unit it's $4.99 lease fee.

Same fee no matter what, just called different things.
 

· Lifetime Achiever
Joined
·
30,090 Posts
bonscott87 said:
Sorry, but $299 is a leased unit plain as day.
And you're not getting it:

Buy a receiver it's $4.99 mirror fee.
Lease a unit it's $4.99 lease fee.

Same fee no matter what, just called different things.
The "purchase" price for an HR20 is $800 plus.

The "lease" aspect should have been explained to you by either the COSTCO rep that assisted with the same, or by the phone rep when you attempted to activate the unit.

In all "reality"
1) The unit is 100% no good with out DirecTV service
2) In the long run... it is very possible that DirecTV won't "ask" for them back when you leave... 2 years is a "long" time in the electronics world..
3) Being that it is leased... you will have a much easier time having the unit replaced if something goes wrong, vs "owning" it.
 

· Lifetime Achiever
Joined
·
30,090 Posts
bonscott87 said:
Same fee no matter what, just called different things.
They "really" should have found some other term then "lease"...
 

· Éminence grise
Joined
·
8,457 Posts
It isn't just Costco. I got my H20 at Best Buy. I knew that it was going to be leased, but they didn't say anything or provide me with any paperwork other than a receipt, which surprised me. I suppose if I hadn't activated it, Directv wouldn't have known who had it and I would have "owned" a useless box. CSR did mention the lease when activating the box. When I previously bought a HDVR2 and R15, I had to sign all sorts of paperwork spelling out the commitment, etc.
 

· Cutting Edge: ECHELON '07
Joined
·
9,882 Posts
I agree that Costco or BB drones should be aware but lets face it....the HR20 or any other DirecTV receiver is just a sale, no different then an iPod or a TV or an XBox 360. They don't know anything more about any of that other stuff either. I'm still surprised at how many people still rely on these clueless drones for accurate information.
 

· Hall Of Fame
Joined
·
3,985 Posts
DirecTV should impress upon the brick & mortor stores that they need to at least provide paperwork to people that spells out the lease details. It should be as easy for BB, CC, Costco and others to have their systems programmed with a prompt screen for this. Seems to me they can handle those "product detail" aspects just fine with cell phone sales. This shouldn't be too much different, other than it's a department that does not require that level of service with the vast majority of what they sell, unlike the cell phone department where I would imagine that's done with every sale.

Will it mess up the sales flow? I would say, definitely. People presented with that information in the store are bound to ask questions about it - then the drone hits the fan. But I don't think it's right for them not to put it out there for people at the time of the sale.

That being said, if the CSRs who are handling the activations are NOT giving this information at the point of activation, there really needs to be something done there as well.

From my experience, there is that point in the activation phone call, after giving model numbers, serial numbers, card numbers, etc. where they go into the lease shpiel. Between the excitement of hooking up the new receiver and the "OK, here's the fine print" reading of the details - to which people pay as much attention as the "side effects include....." or the reading of the fine print on car commercials - I think people kind of "ya, ya, I understand" without even listening. Unfortunately, that's the subscribers problem if they don't.

For all of the people who get on here and say, "Nobody ever told me anything about a LEASE", I wonder what a review of the phone call would reveal about that? And again, if the CSR is omitting that part of their script, then they need to be called to task on it.

Until I got my HR20, I also got a follow up mailing each time that had just the Terms of Service agreement, in which the lease apsect was spelled out. With all my new equipment since March 1, 2006, I did have to sign papers with the installer, one of which was the lease terms. It still amazes me that people get all the way through the process and still claim ignorance. I do understand that it certainly can happen - especially with self-installs. But I think that's a gap that needs to be filled with the B&M stores.

It just must not be costing D* enough yet for that to be escalated.
 

· New Member
Joined
·
3 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
In my case, I specifically rejected the free protable DVD player and the $199 HD DVR because I didn't want a 2 year commitment. HD technology is moving so rapidly that I don't want to be locked into a two year term. I was willing to pay the money to buy a modified HR250-10 because I like Tivo and I don't want DTVs knockoff.

Whether or not the lease vs purchase price is different, DTV is preventing churn through financial intimidation, AKA "early termination penalty". This is the same BS practiced by the cellular companies when they would increase your term commitment when you added minutes to your calling plan. They knew it was BS and the courts will know its BS.

I agree that this could make a legitimate class action case. DTV is no stranger to unfair and deceptive business practices.
 

· Godfather
Joined
·
271 Posts
stuart310 said:
In my case, I specifically rejected the free protable DVD player and the $199 HD DVR because I didn't want a 2 year commitment. HD technology is moving so rapidly that I don't want to be locked into a two year term. I was willing to pay the money to buy a modified HR250-10 because I like Tivo and I don't want DTVs knockoff.

Whether or not the lease vs purchase price is different, DTV is preventing churn through financial intimidation, AKA "early termination penalty". This is the same BS practiced by the cellular companies when they would increase your term commitment when you added minutes to your calling plan. They knew it was BS and the courts will know its BS.

I agree that this could make a legitimate class action case. DTV is no stranger to unfair and deceptive business practices.
You are certainly correct here.

I had a similar situation and it did not even involve a brick and mortar store. I called D*TV Direct and spoke to a sales CSR and ask to upgrade my existing TIVO unit to a similar unit. After having to get in line to get an upgrade.

After waiting two weeks I get a call that my unit is available and they schedule a time to do the install.

After the install I find out by talking to the activation agent that the unit is a leased receiver. Not during the initial "sales" call to DTV, only after 1) being told how much in demand these units are, Waiting two weeks and then having an installer put up a new dish, install and test the unit. And then being put on the spot that either I activate the dish and agree to a two year term of service and lease not buy the unit.

I honestly believe that D*TV is over promoting and artificially leading to believe us that there is a shortage of these units. I the last week I have been in Best Buy, Circuit City and HH Gregg and all have had units in stock.

I agree partially with the golden bear that:

In all "reality"
1) The unit is 100% no good with out DirecTV service. "Unless you might want to sell it on ebay and recover some of your expense. There are only 2300 auctions for D*TV equipment for sale as of this post...."
2) In the long run... it is very possible that DirecTV won't "ask" for them back when you leave... 2 years is a "long" time in the electronics world..1) I would believe that when I see it... Greed caused them to leave Tivo and .2) Yes two years is a long time, and that is what those of us that are very unhappy with the HR20/NON-TIVO/Lease Situation are saying, We are stuck for a long time...

3) Being that it is leased... you will have a much easier time having the unit replaced if something goes wrong, vs "owning" it. True, I wonder why my original D*TV sales CSR worked so hard to sell me the DIRECTV® Equipment Protection Plan: for my new leased receiver. Why would I need an EPP on a leased piece of equipment. It was only after many calls complaining about the lack of "expected features" ( I have learned not to put lack of features in this forum due to that fact that is followed with 100 posts on all the cool new features that I may never use and doesn't come close to matching the features on my TIVO units.) that I find out that the DTVEPP covers all my equipment. Not just the new item. I am certain that if they had to replace one of my "owned" receivers it would be with a leased one though. Kind of like HHGREGG offering an EPP on my purchased HDTV and then if they have to replace it do so with a leased HDTV.

NO disrespect Big Earl ! If it was not for your posts this unit would have be in the recovery box D*TV sent me that is box under my Christmas tree. I am just sad that I had picked this unit as my gift....You and the others in this forum have at least made this unit usable for me.

I just think that D*TV is artificially leading to clients to believe that there is a shortage of these units to hopefully:

1)Keep people with D*TV
2)Get clients to accept the reduced features on the unit
3)Sell the units
4)Lock people into two more years of service.

D*TV has stated that they would be happy to take back the unit but refuses to:

1)Refund my $299.00
2)Allow me out of my lease.

So why ship it back, and get nothing.

I am up for anything I just wish that this D*TV would have ask us first. I would have been happy to pay another $10.00 a month to have kept my full TIVO features and would still be willing to pay DIRECTV; DISH or even COMCAST that would provide me with with TIVO /HDTV / DVR /DUAL BUFFERED TUNERS.

Ok, enough venting; I am off to watch one football game at a time because this unit has neither PIP or Dual Buffers. I guess since I don't have OTA yet I could still hook up my antenna to my TV, use PIP on the TV to watch both.

I wonderer if the NFL put the Bears Game on Monday night so Earl and the reset of Chicago fans could get OTA enabled for the Monday Night shaming of DU BEARS ! :) Hey it is the best team in the league on a wins to turnovers ratio. Fun to watch!

GO COLTS ! Please don't flame in FLA!!!!!!
 

· Godfather
Joined
·
271 Posts
Going, going ........


You keep cashing those D*TV checks and leave the forums to those of us who pay you to go into work.

:-/
 

· Godfather
Joined
·
271 Posts
bonscott87 said:
There is still a 2 year commitment no matter if you "buy" or lease. If you don't like the commitment then go somewhere else, it's that simple.
Oh, and thanks to the CSR @ D*TV who left that out when I called for the upgrade.... You take that call too?
 

· Hall Of Fame
Joined
·
1,743 Posts
bonscott87 said:
There is still a 2 year commitment no matter if you "buy" or lease. If you don't like the commitment then go somewhere else, it's that simple.
All D* CSRs I spoke too say there is no committment for activating owned equipment. That's why some prefer to own rather than lease.
 

· Cutting Edge: ECHELON '07
Joined
·
9,882 Posts
There always has been a commitment for owned equipment, 1 year. As of March 1st all receivers are leased and the advanced ones (DVR, HD) require an additional year for a total of 2.

Perhaps they changed something but it's almost impossible to activate a receiver, owned or leased, without a commitment. Perhaps CSR roulette and getting lucky will get you beyond that. And about the only way to actually "buy" a receiver anymore is via eBay which we all know is playing with fire there (do you *really* know that receiver was ever actually purchased in the first place)?
 
1 - 20 of 39 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top