LIL lead?

Originally posted by BrettR
Will Dish have the lead over DirecTV for somewhile in local-into-local?

Click to expand...

Dish doesn't lead Directv now, and probably won't for a long while. Here is what I have researched and posted to another forum about a week ago:

Just so everyone knows where LIL stands as of today. Using the 2002-2003 Nielsen rankings of DMA's:

D* currently serves , or has immediate plans to serve 51 cities with a total potential viewership in those cities of 71,601,360.

E* currently serves, or has immedate plans to serve 48 cities with a total potential veiwership in those cities of 66,826,980.

While E* is adding many cities in the DMA 70 range and lower, they have skipped some key cities with millions of potential viewers. Some of those would be Baltimore (24), Hartford (27), Milwaukee (31), and Columbus (34). E* can add Reno (114), Waco (93), Burlington (91), and Tucson (74), and that doesn't equal the potential subscriber base of Baltimore by itself. E* has made some very interesting choices when adding locals IMHO.

E* will have a lot of ground to make up (about 5,000,000 potential viewers) to be on equal footing with D* on LIL.

Originally posted by Bhupen
....then a huge local channel market lead over DirecTV. ....

DirecTV better hope merger goes through.

Click to expand...

Must I say it again? Directv is currently kicking Dish Network's butt in LiL with about 5,000,000 more potential subs having access to Directv LiL over Dish Network LiL.

Dish Network is adding cities left and right that are below the 70th largest DMA. They still have no LiL in Baltimore, Milwaukee, Hartford, Columbus, or Memphis. These are HUGE markets that Directv has LiL exclusivity. Dish can go after all the Reno's, Fresno's, and Colorado Springs they want. When the day is done, though, Directv still offers more potential customers LiL than Dish Network.

BTW - Directv never had an exclusive on NHLCI or NBALP. Digital cable systems nationwide also offer these packages. It is still a good deal for Dish subs, just not the nail in the coffin that is being preached.

Put down the Dish pom-poms and do some research. Directv isn't nearly as evil as you are painting it out to be. They provide an excellent product with superior equipment to 3.000,000 more subs than Dish Network. Our equipment works as it is supposed to, and Directv adds LiL to cities where they can get the most subs, not the most markets.

While you are pumping up Dish Network so much, please find out for me when the kinks will be worked out of Dish Network PVR's so those of us who may have to switch to inferior equipment can have our concerns put at ease.

Originally posted by Bhupen
DirecTV better hope merger goes through.

Click to expand...

Echostar better hope the merger goes through.

As karl_f said, DirecTV is doing a better job with the LIL programing. Although it may not be a big deal to some people, LIL programing is a main sticking point with a lot of potential satellite customers.

When we have friends over, one of the first questions I get asked is "Do you get local channels on that thing?" Most often the response is "who cares about the 200+ other channels you can get for the same price as regular cable, without locals, who cares about satellite."

I live in Milwaukee. I find it frustrating that E* will add cities like Waco, Reno, and Grand Rapids when they don't even offer locals to a major market like Milwaukee.

E* needs to get its ducks in a row and stop preaching merger. I have news for Mr. Ergen. Pigs will fall out of the sky before a merger that creates a monopoly in pay TV for large parts of the country is approved.

/Benjamin

Originally posted by karl_f


Must I say it again? Directv is currently kicking Dish Network's butt in LiL with about 5,000,000 more potential subs having access to Directv LiL over Dish Network LiL.

Dish Network is adding cities left and right that are below the 70th largest DMA. They still have no LiL in Baltimore, Milwaukee, Hartford, Columbus, or Memphis. These are HUGE markets that Directv has LiL exclusivity. Dish can go after all the Reno's, Fresno's, and Colorado Springs they want. When the day is done, though, Directv still offers more potential customers LiL than Dish Network.

BTW - Directv never had an exclusive on NHLCI or NBALP. Digital cable systems nationwide also offer these packages. It is still a good deal for Dish subs, just not the nail in the coffin that is being preached.

Put down the Dish pom-poms and do some research. Directv isn't nearly as evil as you are painting it out to be. They provide an excellent product with superior equipment to 3.000,000 more subs than Dish Network. Our equipment works as it is supposed to, and Directv adds LiL to cities where they can get the most subs, not the most markets.

While you are pumping up Dish Network so much, please find out for me when the kinks will be worked out of Dish Network PVR's so those of us who may have to switch to inferior equipment can have our concerns put at ease.

Click to expand...

26 more local markets with launch of E*8 according to that email. Its likely Dish will add many of the major markets that are missing.

And one DBS provider cannot have exclusivity of a market. Its against FCC rules. So Dish Net. can add Milwaukee, and all those markets when they accomodate space and get the contracts signed.

And you wanta know something about Directv's 119 markets? I remember when Directv put Baltimore at 119 and Washington at 101, yet the big CE stores plus KMart Walmart Radio Shack around the Baltimore area were mainly advertising the 18" dish. The oval dish was not standard equipment (for 2 years 2000, 2001) and many CE stores which Directv paid for exclusivity in the past were not ensuring the oval dish sale in these Baltimore area counties. Directv was also carrying a meager 4 channels without WB or UPN also at the time, while most people in that area can pick up up to 20 stations over the air for free, and the big DC stations on cable. Dish may have lost a potential market, but Directv hasnt captured significant amount more customers there.

The same is happening in markets like New Orleans today. The oval dish is still not standard equipment there, meaning many potential new subscribers may just purchase a system with the 18" dish then find out later they dont have access to the locals. Dont see how this is logical.

Directv did have DBS exclusivity for their sports packages! DISH Network has exclusivity for certain international programming now locking DirecTV out for a couple years. Directv didnt do anything when they had the chance, but cram in more locals trying to not let Dish surpass them. They used much of the 119 capacity for locals.

But Dish will manage to surpass them anyways with more conus and side slots. Do you know the big international market Directv continues to neglect? There was the Kelly broadcasting mess, but that didnt include the vast majority of available international channels that either Globecast and Dish have made contracts with, which DirecTV ignored (but what to expect when the service is bandwith strapped and run by company with a big ego).

Now they are losing their grip even with sports fans. Dish will be able to offer NHL CI, possibly NBA League Pass. Dish already carries most regional sports networks, all the ESPNs, TBS, TNT which also have lot of NBA programming, plus sells superstations more distant networks like Denver, and the sports package for $4.99 (compared to $12 on Directv).

Dish's basic equipment works, maybe their PVRs aren't the best (still a PVR 508 is considered big improvement over what the cable companies offer). Dish continues to pull in more subscribers per quarter over DirecTV, churn is less, and Dish is making a profit. They even still sell the low end packages like AT 50 that Directv wont even compete against. DirecTV is a fine service, but where are they headed, do they want to be the no.2 satellite provider? I hope NewsCorp gets Directv, maybe it will shake things and make Directv a more competitive service.

Echostar has the definite advantage of more transponers both CONUS and wing satellites. It looks like E* worked to save money by launching much less sophisticated spot beam satellites. This essentially negates a lot of the advantages of the extra transponders. Remember any national programming on the wings has to be duplicated. This cuts wings in half.

When D-7s launches DirectTV will have the advantage in LIL again. Given the larger number of spots, it will save them on CONUS transponders (E* will have to serve a bunch of markets on CONUS because not enough spots on E7/E8 and no spots pointing to some markets at all).

Echostar has the advantage only if it wants to use it. And that will take a lot of cash (i.e. more satellites). It is not clear if they will use it. For example they could put up spot satellites on 61.5 and 148 and do HDTV into top markets.