[Steveknj]

Can you give a reference to exactly where in their license stations are required to do as you suggest? Stations are required to use their licenses (cannot be off air for more than a year) and are expected to use all of their license (full transmit power as licensed within 10% below or 5% above licensed power, IIRC) but OTA stations are not licensed or required to provide service to X number of people or X% of a defined area. They are licensed to transmit at a certain height and power. As long as they do that without interfering with other licensed services reception is the problem of the viewer. (There are other requirements, such as educational programming, political programming, etc. But I'll confine the statement to how a station is required to use their transmitter.)

Wishing it was different is common. Even I want it to be different. But wishing doesn't change the reality of the situation.

A cease and desist order (restraining order) needs to be followed. They can go back to the judge and say "hey, we have removed the nag screen and our signal is now freely available separate from donation". But they CANNOT continue to operate without the judge changing the order.

Think about it as being pulled over by a police officer for speeding. You're doing 55 in a 25, the police car pulls up behind you, the lights turn on. That tells you to STOP. You don't get to slow down to the speed limit and say "hey, I am now compliant". You STOP and stay stopped until the officer allows you to move again (with their choice of a warning or ticket or arrest - especially for 55 in a 25!). The judge says STOP ... you stop.

On the other hand, if you pay your fine and then only do 25 that would make you compliant from that point on. So, using that analogy, If Locast pays the fine, and now makes donations volutary, wouldn't that mean they can remove the cease and desist order? I do wonder if that's what they are working on.

 

[phrelin]

It's just going to save me some money.

In my lifetime which is quite long, TV stations were to make money on advertising. For those of us who lived (live) in areas that no OTA is available even though the stations claimed us within their Designated Market Area thereby precluding television reception, cable/satellite offered an alternative. But with the advent of streaming that's all out of date.

I supported Locast not because we watched anything except emergency news, but only because of emergency news like right now as California burns up. The problem is, that news is on the internet so who needs local television stations?

If Locast comes back, I'll support them. But I will not directly give a "local" (aka unavailable OTA) station a dime except for KPIX which comes with Paramount+ (formerly CBS All Access).

 

[b4pjoe]

While technically, the judge hadn't yet ruled that Locast had violated copyright, only that Locast couldn't raise its primary affirmative defense (the service had other defenses), the parties had made an unusual agreement at the start of litigation. In return for not seeking hefty financial damages, broadcasters got Locast to agree to an injunction in the event a federal judge had rejected its key defense. Given the court's ruling earlier this week, the broadcasters quickly sought to hold Locast to that promise, and now Locast has bowed to the inevitable.

"Since portions of its user payments fund Locast's expansion, its charges exceed those 'necessary to defray the actual and reasonable costs of maintaining and operating the secondary transmission service,' which is the only exemption granted in Section 111 (a) (5)," wrote U.S. District Court Judge Louis Stanton in his order Tuesday.

Interesting that Locast agreed to that.

 

[TV_Guy]

Rabbit ears don't work, I only get a few locals, most don't work. I'm going to try an antenna in the attic and see if that goes. Problem with YTTV, Hulu and most of the others are the RSNs, they don't have them. So if the rabbit ears solution doesn't work, I'll probably head back to DirecTV

YouTube TV does offer SNY. If the Mets are your main team then you might be in business. If you are looking for MSG and YES then Directv Stream is your only streaming option. If you want WPIX just for Yankees games you could see those games on Amazon Prime.

 

[Steveknj]

YouTube TV does offer SNY. If the Mets are your main team then you might be in business. If you are looking for MSG and YES then Directv Stream is your only streaming option. If you want WPIX just for Yankees games you could see those games on Amazon Prime.

Yankees here, so SNY does me no good. As for WPIX, my son watches all the comic book shows so that's why it's important to have.

 

[billsharpe]

There was a vhf/uhf antenna on the rooftop of our house when we bought it 50 years ago. Over time I replaced the twin-lead with coax and have been receiving excellent OTA pictures from all the local stations. Last time I checked my TV there were over 120 channels available, including the three public channels in the LA area, 28. 50, and 58 plus all their subsidiaries. I also use that antenna for FM reception, since these stations are just above channel 6's frequency.

That said, I am sorry to see Locast give up.

 

[harsh]

If you don't think other non-profits maintain legal funds and lawyers on retainer, as well as paying lobbyists to push for or against pertinent legislation, think again. As long as they're not distributing profits to private individuals/shareholders, it's pretty much permitted under the existing IRS 501(c)(3) rules.

Paying lawyers and lobbyists is fine. It is collecting large amounts of fundage that isn't destined to be spent on something specific that is frowned upon. This is the textbook definition of a "war chest" for businesses.

 

[NYDutch]

Paying lawyers and lobbyists is fine. It is collecting large amounts of fundage that isn't destined to be spent on something specific that is frowned upon. This is the textbook definition of a "war chest" for businesses.

Planned expansion into under served areas isn't specific enough?

 

[James Long]

17 U.S. Code Section 111 (a) (5)
[The secondary transmission of a performance or display of a work embodied in a primary transmission is not an infringement of copyright if-]
(5) the secondary transmission is not made by a cable system but is made by a governmental body, or other nonprofit organization, without any purpose of direct or indirect commercial advantage, and without charge to the recipients of the secondary transmission other than assessments necessary to defray the actual and reasonable costs of maintaining and operating the secondary transmission service.

That is the peg that Locast hung its hat on. A specific law referring to the specific act that they specifically performed. The charge to recipients is specifically limited. They would need to rely on separate donations for expansion or other costs.

"In 2020, Locast's operating costs were $2.436 million while revenue for the year totaled $4.372 million."
Well over the "actual and reasonable costs of maintaining and operating the secondary transmission service".

 

[TV_Guy]

Yankees here, so SNY does me no good. As for WPIX, my son watches all the comic book shows so that's why it's important to have.

A classic streaming dilemma. The antenna idea is good since it gives you flexibility. You want VHF elements since WPIX and WNET are high VHF signals. Another viewing method for PBS is the streaming apps offered by NJ PBS and WNET and WLIW. YouTube TV offers Connecticut PBS and WLIW and WNET in the NY Metro area. With no contracts you could go with Directv Stream during the baseball season and substitute the lower priced YouTube TV during the baseball off-season. There is a possibility that YES will be offered direct to consumer next season but I think it is less likely to be offered than the fully owned Sinclair RSNs.

 

[NR4P]

Just because it's old, or wrong for users, doesn't make it wrong for the networks. They want to get paid. They don't want broadcasting without permission. It might not make a lot of business sense in 2021, but I don't pretend to completely understand the model. Like a lot of thing around broadcasting which many of their standards were created in first the radio era and later in the early TV era, th

I'm a Locast subscriber and got an email late yesterday where they will no longer include "nag" interruptions for non paid subscribers. The issue they've determined is that it no longer becomes a "donation" when you include these types of nags where you have to pay to get them removed. I can see the court's point. So now a donation becomes completely voluntary (as a donation should be). I will keep donating as I want Locast to succeed, but I no longer have to in order to watch TV uninterrupted.

Here's my point...I can buy an ATSC TV for $100+ and in my local market, receive the channels for free. But I can't do the same thing on my mobile phone because it doesn't have the ATSC chip in it? It comes in via LTE/5G vs ATSC RF so that makes a difference?

And yes I know Locast suspended operations. Too bad

 

[James Long]

I can't pick up ATSC on my car radio. I don't blame the stations (or the government, etc.).

 

[ziggy29]

Here's my point...I can buy an ATSC TV for $100+ and in my local market, receive the channels for free. But I can't do the same thing on my mobile phone because it doesn't have the ATSC chip in it? It comes in via LTE/5G vs ATSC RF so that makes a difference?

If there was a market for it, phone makers could put an ATSC tuner into their phones and allow reception of OTA TV through it. Of course, there wouldn't be much of an antenna so you'd probably have to be almost on top of the transmitters...

 

[vinhmen]

17 U.S. Code Section 111 (a) (5)
[The secondary transmission of a performance or display of a work embodied in a primary transmission is not an infringement of copyright if-]
(5) the secondary transmission is not made by a cable system but is made by a governmental body, or other nonprofit organization, without any purpose of direct or indirect commercial advantage, and without charge to the recipients of the secondary transmission other than assessments necessary to defray the actual and reasonable costs of maintaining and operating the secondary transmission service.

That is the peg that Locast hung its hat on. A specific law referring to the specific act that they specifically performed. The charge to recipients is specifically limited. They would need to rely on separate donations for expansion or other costs.

"In 2020, Locast's operating costs were $2.436 million while revenue for the year totaled $4.372 million."
Well over the "actual and reasonable costs of maintaining and operating the secondary transmission service".

So what is Locast's motive in providing this service? Are they really doing this out of kindness in their hearts for the poor souls who cannot obtain local broadcasts by any other means? I didn't get that impression during the incessant interruptions for donations during the broadcast.

 

[James Long]

So what is Locast's motive in providing this service? Are they really doing this out of kindness in their hearts for the poor souls who cannot obtain local broadcasts by any other means? I didn't get that impression during the incessant interruptions for donations during the broadcast.

I believe they were trying to help people get the signals. They probably could have scaled back the nagware. But I don't believe they were trying to get rich.

 

[ziggy29]

So what is Locast's motive in providing this service? Are they really doing this out of kindness in their hearts for the poor souls who cannot obtain local broadcasts by any other means? I didn't get that impression during the incessant interruptions for donations during the broadcast.

Maybe it was just people motivated to do something in their disgust for the business practices of these broadcasters, one which I share. (They seem to want to push people into cable and satellite where they can charge fees for "free" TV and then hold viewers hostage by threatening to pull the signal if they don't keep getting more money. They sure don't seem interested in making their OTA signals easier to get or helping more people get their signal.) I mean, follow the money and all, but I don't know who was making money on this, though I would think as a nonprofit there would be public filings as to salaries and such (that may only apply to 501c3 type organizations; I don't know).

 

[vinhmen]

According to the founder it was out of nothing more than kindness in his heart. As someone who has issues with getting OTA broadcasts I appreciate the attempt but the service itself was so wonky for me to the point of unusable and I think it did violate the letter if not intent of the law.

 

[NYDutch]

Locast was operated by Sports Fans Coalition NY, a 501(c)(3) community service non-profit chapter of Washington D.C. based Sports Fans Coalition:

https://helpcenter.locast.org/portal/en/kb/articles/what-is-sports-fans-coalition

 

[harsh]

Planned expansion into under served areas isn't specific enough?

LOCAST had been adding a market every few months. If that's the case, does their operations plus opening up a new market really cost $15 million X the number of months between markets lighting up?

I don't think so.

 

[NYDutch]

LOCAST had been adding a market every few months. If that's the case, does their operations plus opening up a new market really cost $15 million X the number of months between markets lighting up?

I don't think so.

If the Red Cross takes in more money than they need for actual expenses this year should they be shut down?