[lopezislandjohn]

Hello folks. My first post here ever.
I'm losing upper channels on the 119 W satellite. Oddball situation...some history. Moved to a heavily treed area in the Northwest about 10 years ago. Dish and DirecTV both said no way to get service at my location...too many trees. Had an account transferred from NYS, so I had a dish and a receiver. Got a satellite meter and found a signal from 119 W shooting through an opening in the trees. Have had good service now for almost 10 years, sharing a single LNB with dual output with my daughter, in another house. We each use a line out of the same dish. I have a 322 receiver and she has something newer. We were getting plenty of channels, but about a month ago, we lost most of the ones above 108. 110 Food, 112 HGTV, 139 TBS 209 MSNBC etc etc. Lower ones come in fine. On the aiming screen, I get a signal strength of 60, which probably isn't great, but it's about the same as we've been getting all along.

I replaced the LNB with no improvement. We both have signal amplifiers in the line, and the 60 strength is after the amp, and about the same in both houses. I have a SatLink WS-6950 meter. At the dish, out of the LNB before the inline amp, I get a strength of 79 and quality of 85%, if this means anything out of context. I've used the nudging technique to aim, and this is the best it gets.

With just a single LNB on a single satellite, I haven't played with the skew at all...I believe that doesn't matter in my situation, correct? On the aiming screen, it's on transponder 13. If I change this, say to 21, I can get more signal, but after going back to programming, the upper channels still don't come in, and going back to the aiming screen, it's back to TP 13 by itself.

Any ideas of what I can try?
Thanks.

 

[RBA]

Hello folks. My first post here ever.
I'm losing upper channels on the 119 W satellite. Oddball situation...some history. Moved to a heavily treed area in the Northwest about 10 years ago. Dish and DirecTV both said no way to get service at my location...too many trees. Had an account transferred from NYS, so I had a dish and a receiver. Got a satellite meter and found a signal from 119 W shooting through an opening in the trees. Have had good service now for almost 10 years, sharing a single LNB with dual output with my daughter, in another house. We each use a line out of the same dish. I have a 322 receiver and she has something newer. We were getting plenty of channels, but about a month ago, we lost most of the ones above 108. 110 Food, 112 HGTV, 139 TBS 209 MSNBC etc etc. Lower ones come in fine. On the aiming screen, I get a signal strength of 60, which probably isn't great, but it's about the same as we've been getting all along.

I replaced the LNB with no improvement. We both have signal amplifiers in the line, and the 60 strength is after the amp, and about the same in both houses. I have a SatLink WS-6950 meter. At the dish, out of the LNB before the inline amp, I get a strength of 79 and quality of 85%, if this means anything out of context. I've used the nudging technique to aim, and this is the best it gets.

With just a single LNB on a single satellite, I haven't played with the skew at all...I believe that doesn't matter in my situation, correct? On the aiming screen, it's on transponder 13. If I change this, say to 21, I can get more signal, but after going back to programming, the upper channels still don't come in, and going back to the aiming screen, it's back to TP 13 by itself.

Any ideas of what I can try?
Thanks.

Each transponder delivers several channels so you need to go to each transponder and check the signal strength. If you go to channel 110 that channel comes off a transponder on satellite 119, along with maybe another 10 channels. The channel you are watching governs the transponder selected which explains 21 going back to 13 by itself.

I expect tree growth has caused a drop in signal strength on some of your transponders seeing this is the time for foliage to fill in. List each transponder with it's signal strength with the line amplifier removed.

 

[mwdxer]

It also could be an LNBF. I have had ones that are frequency sensitive as they age. So that is a possibility too.

 

[RBA]

It also could be an LNBF. I have had ones that are frequency sensitive as they age. So that is a possibility too.

He already replaced the LNB according to his second paragraph.

 

[mwdxer]

Check out another receiver?

 

[RBA]

Check out another receiver?

Check his first paragraph he and his daughter each have a receiver with same problem on both receivers.

 

[lopezislandjohn]

Thanks for the input. As noted, I put a new LNBF on...had ordered previously, but didn't install until this problem showed up recently. Made only a few points difference in signal strength, and didn't solve the problem. Also, my daughter and I are having the same problem, coming off the same dish, but she has a newer mode receiver (don't know the model offhand), so that isn't the problem. The trees are all pine and fir, so no leafing out in the spring. I had one tree trimmed that was coming close to interfering, but that was before the problem showed up. Besides, the current signal strengths are the same or better than the last time I recorded them, which was before the channel problem showed up. I suppose I'll end up calling DISH. They'll want to send a tech out, but my installation is all done by me...maybe that's part of the problem, but I don't see why it would change. The dish is on a solid post in concrete, about 6 feet off the ground. I used my meter to tweak the aiming, again with no joy. Is it possible DISH changed something about their signal? Anybody hear anything like that?

 

[mwdxer]

How is the Dish alignment?

 

[P Smith]

... Is it possible DISH changed something about their signal? Anybody hear anything like that?

if you'll follow your cue, then you must admit it was so precise change what affected just one antenna in US ! duh ...

 

[RBA]

Would you please list the equipment that you have connected especially the LNB that you have and the dish. Do you have a Dish Pro dual LNB or a Dish Pro Twin LNB, do you have any switches connected? We can't see your setup so we have to rely on your eyes telling us what to guess at.

 

[RBA]

QPSK Migration that DISH is doing should not affect the 322 receiver but it is the only change DISH has made to Western Arc signals.

 

[lopezislandjohn]

Equipment: mine is a 322 receiver, software L772. My daughter's is VIP211 software L570. The LNBF is this one:
http://www.amazon.com/DUAL-D-SHAPED-LEGACY-ORIGINAL-NETWORK/dp/B002N4ROYG?ie=UTF8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage

I ran through the transponders and recorded the signal strength (on my 322), waiting 5 seconds or so on each one...
TP/Signal 1/0 2/0 3/0 4/0 5/56 6/9 7/59 8/3 9/62 10/20 11/61 12/7 13/59 14/6 15/71 16/14 17/63 18/13 19/71 20/10 21/74

Checking a couple of channels I don't get, some seem to be on transponders with a good level, for example ch. 110 showed TP 13 at strength 59. Unless maybe a channel with no signal doesn't change the transponder setting in the aiming screen, and it's just what's left over?

Others seem to be on low-signal TPs, like channel 211 on TP 16, strength 14. Does anyone know of an updated list of which channels are on which TPs? I'd be curious, and it's kind of iffy going back and forth from partial-signal-loss screens to the aiming screen. I found this one, but they don't always match up with what I'm seeing, possibly because the aiming screen doesn't update correctly coming from signal-loss channels.
http://uplink.jameslong.name/chan119.html

 

[lopezislandjohn]

Aha, maybe a clue...all our weak TP channels look to be on EVEN numbered transponders, eg, TP 6, 8, 10, 12, 14, 16, 18, and 20. Any ideas? Something to do with polarization perhaps?

 

[RBA]

Aha, maybe a clue...all our weak TP channels look to be on EVEN numbered transponders, eg, TP 6, 8, 10, 12, 14, 16, 18, and 20. Any ideas? Something to do with polarization perhaps?

If you are correct on the LNB a LEGACY LNB uses voltage switching to select polarization. Your receivers should be using a DISH PRO LNB. The 322 may also show some other problems seeing it is a 2 tuner receiver and should have both coax cables from the dish run into the back of the receiver.

 

[P Smith]

Aha, maybe a clue...all our weak TP channels look to be on EVEN numbered transponders, eg, TP 6, 8, 10, 12, 14, 16, 18, and 20. Any ideas? Something to do with polarization perhaps?

you could do simple test to troubleshoot potential loss of voltage in coax cable; you will need T-connector F-type, short piece of RG-9 coax with F-connectors on both sides and multi-meter (20VDC range)

BTW, you didn't provide your complete picture - there are should be more items, as 322+211 require three coax cables from the dual legacy LNBF

anyway, making temporary [insertion] of short coax cable with T at far end each of your cable, near LNBF
measure DC voltage at T for odd and even tpns and tell us the values

 

[lopezislandjohn]

Okay, these are good suggestions. My daughter called DISH & a tech will come out next Saturday, for free, amazingly, since we live on an island and the ferry ride alone is about $25. They will also give me a newer receiver.

In researching, I found out about the use of voltages, apparently, to switch the LNB (polarizations? transponders?). So this is what P Smith is talking about. I don't have an F-type Tee, but I figured to check things out by running a new 50' length of cable directly from the dish to my receiver, through the window. Normally, it's a much longer route through the crawl space, up into the water heater room where a panel distributes to wall plugs in various rooms. I've just got it going to the one room, but still there are multiple connectors along the way, including the two on the amp by the dish. I'd wrapped those with rubber tape, but still found some corrosion on unwrapping them.

So I ran the single cable in--I've only got it connected to the sat-1 input. My daughter watches a lot of channels, but my wife and I hardly watch at all. Thinking back, we may have had the missing upper channels all along, and never noticed--because of just using one input, as RBA and P Smith suggested. My daughter, with the newer receiver, needed only one coax line. But why the change recently?

Some of my research suggested that a low voltage could get the LNB stuck in just one mode...maybe the odd channels mode? At any rate, using the new unfettered cable on my line (my daughters line is much longer & complicated to redo) I didn't see any improvement in available channels. However, shortly thereafter my daughter got back the missing channels! I'm guessing that the better line on my end somehow reset the legacy dual LNB on both lines to now be responsive to daughter's channel surfing!?

A good check would be to get my daughter's receiver and see how it works on my single line. But as long as its working, guess I'll wait for the tech to come out. Since we are only shooting for a single satellite (our window through the trees is only good for the 119W), would a dual PRO LNBF be what we need when I get the new receiver? Like this one?...
http://www.amazon.com/DISH-NETWORK-PRO-DUAL-LNB/dp/B003UAXV12/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1464509005&sr=8-2&keywords=dish+pro+lnb

It says it's to add a third satellite to a PRO Plus, with another dish, but we're only looking for one anyway.

Thanks for all the input. I'm sure learning a lot.

 

[RBA]

Wait for the DISH technician on Sat. he will be able to replace equipment to match your new receiver and get you running.

If you want to play with your equipment try a larger dish like a 30". For one satellite you don't need something like a dish 500 designed for multiple satellite locations. You also probably don't need any LINE AMPS. unless you have some very long cable runs. LINE AMPS. are just another connection that may cause ingress problems.

 

[P Smith]

DPP LNBF should be used for your setup: 322 (2 tuners) and 211(1 tuner)

legacy LNBF must be QUAD type (not sure if dish made it) or connected to legacy 2x4 switch, as each tuner require own coax between LNBF and itself;

DP[P] use stacking method- then DPP dual tuner STB with diish separator could use one coax cable from DPP LNBF

FYI, coax signals switching transponders, not channels

 

[RBA]

DPP LNBF should be used for your setup: 322 (2 tuners) and 211(1 tuner)

legacy LNBF must be QUAD type (not sure if dish made it) or connected to legacy 2x4 switch, as each tuner require own coax between LNBF and itself;

DP[P] use stacking method- then DPP dual tuner STB with diish separator could use one coax cable from DPP LNBF

FYI, coax signals switching transponders, not channels

Would you like to rethink your answer. OP is using a single satellite 119. DISH has never made a DPP LNB or SWITCH for single satellite usage.
DP is a DISH PRO
DPP IS A DISH PRO PLUS not 100% interchangable

 

[scooper]

What the OP should be using is DP LNB (single or dual, doesn't matter which) with a DPP33 or DPP 44 switch (the 33 will work fine for this situation.Then he would need a DPP separator for his 322 receiver (his daughter's 211 doesn't need anything else). If he wants to replace his receiver - I'd be looking at a VIP 211 or VIP222 receiver (211 for a single TV, 222 for 2 TVs) .

What would be better is to get a full Dish500 (119 / 110) or a full western arc ( 110,119, 129) dish setup going to both houses.