Need Help Designing An Overall Upgrade Plan

773 Views 7 Replies 5 Participants Last post by evan_s, Aug 8, 2008

SpankyInChicago

Discussion Starter · Aug 5, 2008

So, I got The Call today from DirecTV telling me about the free HD swap. Based on my reading over at TivoCommunity, I had been expecting it. I don't per se want to upgrade, nor do I really need to upgrade since most of the HD I watch it OTA save HBO HD and occasionally one of the east coast network (ABC, CBS, NBC, Fox) HD feeds.

But since I can upgrade for free, I figure I might as well do it.

Here is where I am at currently:

- Four viewing locations (Family Room, Media Room, Master Bedroom, Office)
- Three HR10-250s (Family Room, Media Room, Master Bedroom)
- One Sony Tivo SAT-T60 (Office)
- Three RG6, two CAT5 to each location.
- Two RG6 at each location used for dual SAT tuners
- One RG6 at each location used for OTA
- SAT lines home run to a 4x8 powered multiswitch
- 4x8 multipleswitch fed by four lines from 3LNB dish on the roof - dish was installed new in 2005
- OTA lines home run to a 1x4 10dB distribution block
- OTA distribution block fed by Winegard HD8200P antenna
- CAT5s (phone and data) home run to 110 punch down blocks next to OTA and SAT
- Full disclosure: Vista Ultimate machines available (if I want) at each location as well as Windows Home Server (and a Windows Server 2003 domain controller) at the home run

Here is what I would like to get to:

- Same four viewing locations
- Office stays unchanged, will keep the SAT-T60
- Family room will be a direct swap - replace the HR10-250 with a new HR21
- Will want to record OTA in the family room, so I guess I need the external OTA receiver for the HR21, whatever that is called
- Media room and master bedroom I want to keep HR10-250 and add HR21 - at least for a few months
- Need OTA in MBR and media room as well, but will probably just record onto HR10-250 initially
- Gain any cool new network features if possible

Key is that I don't want to put any more coax in the wall. I'd possibly consider multiswitches in the MBR and media room if required. But with SWMs, new multiswitches, new 5LNB dish, B-Band Converters, etc. I am a little confused over exactly what I need to get from point A to point B.

Any helpful advice, plans of actions, or alternatives to my plans would be great. Only real thing I am against is more wire in the walls.

If I left anything out, let me know.

Thanks in advance for the helpful answers I know I wil lget.

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Sixto

· #2 · Aug 6, 2008

Personally, I'd upgrade all four to HR21's and move on. I also had three HR10-250's and an old TiVo. Have never looked back or regretted the decision.

Gives you one nice interface across all. but will cost some $.

You'll also need a few AM21's to support OTA.

My setup is in my signature below ...

Only issue I see with trying to keep the HR10-250's around is trying to get 2 tuners to each HR21, and OTA, and legacy. Can be done I guess with SWM-8 and diplexing, but only get 3 legacy.

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evan_s

· #3 · Aug 6, 2008

SpankyInChicago said:
Here is what I would like to get to:

- Same four viewing locations
- Office stays unchanged, will keep the SAT-T60
- Family room will be a direct swap - replace the HR10-250 with a new HR21
- Will want to record OTA in the family room, so I guess I need the external OTA receiver for the HR21, whatever that is called
- Media room and master bedroom I want to keep HR10-250 and add HR21 - at least for a few months
- Need OTA in MBR and media room as well, but will probably just record onto HR10-250 initially
- Gain any cool new network features if possible

Key is that I don't want to put any more coax in the wall. I'd possibly consider multiswitches in the MBR and media room if required. But with SWMs, new multiswitches, new 5LNB dish, B-Band Converters, etc. I am a little confused over exactly what I need to get from point A to point B.

Any helpful advice, plans of actions, or alternatives to my plans would be great. Only real thing I am against is more wire in the walls.

If I left anything out, let me know.

Thanks in advance for the helpful answers I know I wil lget.

OK obviously the direct swap in the family room will be easy. The MBR and Media room will be the challenge. With only 3 wires you are going to have to go with SWM to run the HR21's on a single wire or go with a single tuner on one of the dvrs. A SWMlnb won't work because it has no legacy support so it will have to be a SWM8. DirecTV won't provide this for your install so you will need to purchase it from Dave29 or someplace like www.solidsignal.com.

The setup I would recommend is getting 4 2way splitters and a SWM8 to run the SWM8 and your current switch in parallel and then running all your legacy equipment off your existing switch and all your new receivers off the SWM8 and diplexing OTA on one of the cables. You should be able to diplex it with either your old switch and receivers or the SWM. You will probably want to order the Diplexers at the same time you order the SWM8 and 4 splitters.

The way the setup will end up looking is new slimline dish with 4 cables leading to 4 2way splitters with the splitters feeding your existing switch and the SWM8. It sounds like this could be done at your home run location where your existing switch is already. Diplex OTA on to which ever cable(s) need it. At the other end Diplex the OTA out and hook things up.

All the HR21's will need to be on the SWM8 because your older switch won't work with them. You could replace it with something like a wb68 but there really isn't any reason to. Using a SWM you won't need to hook up the BBCs.

The add on for the HR21 is called the AM21. You won't be able to order this until after the install is actually done and you have the HR21 active on your account. If you call and ask you might be able to get it for free since you are trading up from a unit that already has OTA support.

The dish will be provided as part of the install but to pull off what you want you will have to by the SWM8, the 4 splitters and diplexers.

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rudeney

· #4 · Aug 6, 2008

Just a couple of thoughts…are you only keeping the HR10’s around for watching shows already recorded, or do you intend to keep them live? If you just want to watch existing recordings, then there is no reason to have them connected to the dish. Also, why are you against more wire in the walls? Is it difficult to run it to these locations or do you just have something against “wire”? I can understand if it’s difficult (or expensive because you can’t do it yourself), but if you just don’t want more wire, then remember, it won’t really hurt anything and it can help hold things together during strong winds!

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inkahauts

· #5 · Aug 6, 2008

One other option, If you only want to keep the HR10-250s alive for say a month or two, you could just run the rooms with one sat line to each DVR, negating the need to run additional wires or get a swm... of course I'd only do this if you need them for a short period, but as sixto said, I wouldn't keep them active at all.... Curious, what is the purpose of keeping them active? The sooner you make the full switch, the sooner you'll be able to only have to remember one remote control...

When it comes to networking, and cool stuff being worked on... hit up the cutting edge forum...

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SpankyInChicago

Discussion Starter · #6 · Aug 8, 2008

evan_s said:
OK obviously the direct swap in the family room will be easy. The MBR and Media room will be the challenge. With only 3 wires you are going to have to go with SWM to run the HR21's on a single wire or go with a single tuner on one of the dvrs. A SWMlnb won't work because it has no legacy support so it will have to be a SWM8. DirecTV won't provide this for your install so you will need to purchase it from Dave29 or someplace like www.solidsignal.com.

The setup I would recommend is getting 4 2way splitters and a SWM8 to run the SWM8 and your current switch in parallel and then running all your legacy equipment off your existing switch and all your new receivers off the SWM8 and diplexing OTA on one of the cables. You should be able to diplex it with either your old switch and receivers or the SWM. You will probably want to order the Diplexers at the same time you order the SWM8 and 4 splitters.

The way the setup will end up looking is new slimline dish with 4 cables leading to 4 2way splitters with the splitters feeding your existing switch and the SWM8. It sounds like this could be done at your home run location where your existing switch is already. Diplex OTA on to which ever cable(s) need it. At the other end Diplex the OTA out and hook things up.

All the HR21's will need to be on the SWM8 because your older switch won't work with them. You could replace it with something like a wb68 but there really isn't any reason to. Using a SWM you won't need to hook up the BBCs.

The add on for the HR21 is called the AM21. You won't be able to order this until after the install is actually done and you have the HR21 active on your account. If you call and ask you might be able to get it for free since you are trading up from a unit that already has OTA support.

The dish will be provided as part of the install but to pull off what you want you will have to by the SWM8, the 4 splitters and diplexers.

Thanks for the detailed response. I think I've got it now.

Only question: this is the first time I've heard of the SWM LNB. Since DirecTV would not be providing me with the SWM8 does that mean they would use a dish with SWM LNBs? And if they do, would that prevent me from using the setup you described? In other words, if I intend to use the SWM8 and my existing MS, do I need to be worried whether they install the proper slimline dish (normal vs. SWM LNB)?

Thanks again.

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SpankyInChicago

Discussion Starter · #7 · Aug 8, 2008

Sixto said:
Personally, I'd upgrade all four to HR21's and move on. I also had three HR10-250's and an old TiVo. Have never looked back or regretted the decision.

Gives you one nice interface across all. but will cost some $.

You'll also need a few AM21's to support OTA.

My setup is in my signature below ...

Only issue I see with trying to keep the HR10-250's around is trying to get 2 tuners to each HR21, and OTA, and legacy. Can be done I guess with SWM-8 and diplexing, but only get 3 legacy.

Thanks for the link on your setup. Helpful and clear. As for why I don't drop the HR10-250s? Two reasons: WAF and my accetpance factor. Wife loves her Tivo and is tied to the brand. I'm open to a new interface, but I have a major concern: lack of suggestions combined with a max limit on number of season passes. I use suggestions all the time to discover new stuff to watch as well as to randomly record shows I know I like. I could potentially offset the lack of suggestions if I could put in a season pass for lots and lots of shows that I enjoy (but don't always watch), but I thought there was a limit of 50 season passes on the new boxes. Maybe I am wrong.

So, anyway, that's why. I'm worried I will miss the Tivo Suggestions.

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evan_s

· #8 · Aug 8, 2008

SpankyInChicago said:
Thanks for the detailed response. I think I've got it now.

Only question: this is the first time I've heard of the SWM LNB. Since DirecTV would not be providing me with the SWM8 does that mean they would use a dish with SWM LNBs? And if they do, would that prevent me from using the setup you described? In other words, if I intend to use the SWM8 and my existing MS, do I need to be worried whether they install the proper slimline dish (normal vs. SWM LNB)?

Thanks again.

SWMlnb is the SWM8 integrated in to the LNB on the dish. You also see it called a SWMline sometimes but it's really just a different lnb with the same dish. It's DirecTVs answer for using SWM technology for the average home install. This isn't even currently rolled out nationally so you shouldn't have to worry about getting this and if they did try to install it for some reason they would quickly realize it won't work and should still have plenty of the older LNBs to use instead. There is no indication that they will ever phase out the normal LNB entirely since a swmlnb has several limitations with no way to work around them. No legacy support and no way to support more than 8 tuners are the big ones.

I do expect as the cost on the SWMlnb comes down and production quantities go up that the SWMlnb will be used for more and more of their installs and eventually become the default for any install it can be used on since it does make the installs easier and cheaper to do.

One other note just incase the installer hasn't done it before the lines leading from the 4 2way splitters to the 2 different multiswitches need to be matched up correctly. EG the 13v no tone on both switches leading to the same splitter. The input ports on both switches should be labeled.

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