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I know the topic has veered off into the benefits of Ethernet and MESH systems. Back on topic, I am hoping this is an attempt to at least salvage and modernize the current satellite system and could be a gateway to some sort of hybrid system (hence the streaming backup option) and to eventually utilize the existing system to promote more steaming and less Sat and eventually make for a seamless transition (using existing equipment) from Sat/wired connection to a streaming option (and be able to keep the Sat option available to those who do not have a reliable streaming option). I also wonder if they've gotten "the word" from Discovery/TW, Paramount, etc. that the linear options for HBO, Showtime and so forth are eventually going away and this preps subscribers to have an all in one box solution for those "channels". I also wonder if this will incorporate a new RSN model, which I believe may eventually move completely to a streaming model as well. Note: This is all pure speculation on my part. But reading the "tea leaves" it all makes sense in what we are seeing. So being able to get your content via both Sat or Streaming and being able to get all your premium content through one box (i.e. the way the Osprey works) is something that would benefit many of us. But we'll see.
 

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This would require fundamental software changes to the whole STB environment (especially for DVRs) since the current receiver software doesn't have the software flexibility to install apps for (and authenticate with) random streaming services. The processing and memory requirements go up quickly with apps and I don't see much middle ground between where they're at and a Google TV whole home model.
No doubt, but I think the idea here is to rely less on the hardware than in the past. Perhaps they move into a cloud DVR model (that seems to be more and more common). Obviously the current hardware won't support it, but everyone from cable to OTT systems are moving to that model. Hence why we may see some new, different hardware coming. I do also think they would want to get out of the hardware business if possible (though they might still provide the hardware using the "old" model of you buy it and then you pay extra for support, but only if you want it.) That's how it was when I first started with DirecTV, where you actually bought and owned your receiver and it was up until the H and HR boxes where that changed. There's a lot they can do that might make it more cost effective for them and if they make the ONLY home visit putting a dish up on your roof, then that's probably ideal for them, especially when you consider that they'd much prefer you move to streaming anyway.
 

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From the sounds of it thats what they were looking for.. It will be interesting because there is still such a disparity with there Sat and Streaming TV Contracts..
My guess is that will change over time and the next contracts will handle both streaming and Satellite, especially if streaming is where they want to be over the next 10 years.
 

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How does that work when the vast majority of consumers still get their TV from traditional providers or antenna? TV fanatic boards such as DbsTalk is hardly reflective of gen pop.

Per Wikipedia, as of 2021 (sorry, latest "easy" summary I could find with minimal effort") - Xfinity, Spectrum, DirecTV & Dish are about 57M. Add in Cox, Altice, Uverse, MediaCom and a few other small traditional providers and that's another 12M = 69M. Same list shows Hulu & YTTV live TV to be only 7M combined. The Wikipedia page is from Q1 2021, so no doubt Hulu & YTTV have gained market share since then, but hardly closing the almost 60M gap.
I agree, we aren't there yet. But we are closing in. Here's an example:

If the trend continues, why wouldn't DTW, CBS/Paramount and others start to transition to streaming only (or streaming centric)? If your cable/sat box can bring in streaming content, then what is the need for linear channels in some respects? What do you need 9 HBO channels when you can click on the streaming app on the same box and watch On Demand? (not to mention for some of the streamers, there's the possibility of non-skippable ads). Older folks (like me) are not traditionally what the TV market goes after. It's the younger demos, and they are moving toward streaming.
 

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Poor article tbh since she split up cable & broadcast in the fancy visual, but then lumps them together in the text. Then she mixes in Netflix & Amazon in with Live TV. And what's the 9.2% in Other? Sat? Torrenting? Smoke Signals? Carrier Pigeons? Cave Drawings?

Yup, totally agree though that young kids don't watch linear TV.

She does say later on:

Yes, but: Traditional TV, which includes both cable and broadcast consumption, still collectively makes up the majority of TV viewing in the U.S., for now.
That was one link, there are dozens of articles on the same topic:



But yes, we aren't quite there yet, but that's where we are heading. Those of us old school viewers are not what these companies are planning for. They need to look to the future (which admittedly American Corporation are terrible at). At this point those of us on cable or sat are hangers on. For some of us there are financial reasons it works, for others it's fear of new tech, and still others, the content that we are used to is not there, or internet is not viable or some other reason, but a lot of these issues will be resolved over time (or we will die off!).
 

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The cloud model won't work for those who don't have sufficient broadband (either speed or gigabytes of capacity). Those are the customers that are most likely to keep DIRECTV DBS alive in future.
I don't think their goal is to keep Sat alive in the future but to transition as many people to streaming as possible.
 

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They're still lumping all types of streaming together. VOD and Live are 2 different categories. VOD is dominated by streaming although apparently DirecTV has enough customers for the $15/hr porn to keep it running, so who knows? Live is dominated by traditional.

Also all networks are on summer hiatus, so using summer numbers is misleading. Another issue which is skewing the numbers is that networks haven't generated new hits in years. The last big hit show went off the air 2 or 3 years ago.

I don't think that's a factor of people moving to streaming, I think that's more of a factor of the networks being too focused on wokeness and not creating quality content. Certainly streaming services are also engaged in over the top wokeness which has turned off viewers by the droves. Not saying that American audiences would buy a wholesome all American show like Leave It To Beaver these days, but there is a middle ground between that and supposedly every social circle & family in the country ticking every wokeness category under the sun.

At the end of the day, people will go where the quality / popular content is, where ever that is.
I think wokeness has VERY little to do with streaming. Not to get too political but just consider the BS that's going on around the new LOTR series on AP. Plenty of "wokeness" to go around, TV, Movies, streaming and everywhere else. But lack of quality TV has been the mantra for as long as I can remember, even back when there were 3 networks and nothing else (it wasn't called the "boob tube" for nothing). Lack of quality is subjective. if YOU don't like it, it's not quality to YOU. But Network linear TV is hindered by outdated morals and standards, mostly because it's over the public airwaves. You can do a lot more with streaming (and cable/sat channels FWIW) because it's an open book. Nudity, language, violence and controversial topics can all be done without those constraints, but again, that's been the same for at least 30 years if not more. What's killing linear TV is the fact that you are no longer tethered to a timeslot, to a channel, and you have literally 1000s of choices at your fingertips. Something that has never been the case. Add that to the fact that the kids no longer care about watching content on a "big screen" and are content to watch on their phones and tablets (something I'd never understand, but whatever) and that's something that's cumbersome to do when you are tethered to a channel or timeslot. Blame it on wokeness all you want, but that's definitely not the issue.
 

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How many customers would DTV Stream need to have in order to survive?
That's a question that DIRECTV and its two shareholders are asking themselves often. DIRECTV STREAM is priced considerably higher than all of its competitors so they have that in their favor but that typically doesn't bode well for positive net adds.
I've compared D-Stream to others such as YouTube/Hulu Live and DirecTV Stream, in terms of channel options, and in terms of ease of use blows away all the competition. And that's especially true if you are transitioning from the cable/sat model and use the Osprey box. Sure it's more expensive, but usually Sat is more expensive than cable. It's a much more premium option, especially if you are a sports fan. Anyone currently using DirecTV Sat can easily transition to Stream. The only reason I went back to Sat is because of a few key channels that just weren't available at the time I switched, otherwise I'd have stuck with Stream.

They're going to have to make DIRECTV STREAM a lot more attractive (or DBS a lot less attractive) if they want to make that transition.
From where they were a year ago they already have. Unlimited DVR is one change they've added. The number of avaialbe concurrent streams is another. Obviously if your internet connection is crap, it doesn't matter, but that's out of their control. With ST leaving DirecTV Sat next year, that narrows the gap even more. For many (most?) the price of stream works out cheaper than Sat as well. And the cost of the Osprey boxes is less too.
 

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Hehe... well, network tv has always been more restrictive then cable & pay services. Yes, quality is the defining factor. Just going by imdb reviews and people I speak to (which is a tiny sample size lol) its a turn off and eye roll. But the "young hollywood" that is woke are writing those shows. So you could say its the young hollywood writers that suck...
Young Hollywood don't want to write TV shows for old folks like me. They are writing Euphoria, they are writhing Atlanta, they are writing Hacks (my niece is one of the writers for the new season, and she's a 20 something young writer). Those are all streaming or cable, not linear TV. The shows on linear TV are geared to older folks like me who don't want to stream or don't even know how. They are watching linear TV because that's what they know. I'll stop here because I'll get booted for being too political. Wokeness is a word this is both revered and ostracized depending on your political leanings and who's talking points you listen to and I'll leave it at that.
 

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Streaming backup doesn't work unless you can DVR like the satellite signal. Otherwise, you cannot fast forward through the commercials. If ATT DTV takes away that feature it is no different than the rest.
I do not watch commercials.
Streaming backup only matters for "Iive" TV. If you don't watch ads, you are most likely watching recordings, in which case, none of this matter (except that you would not get any reprieve from rain fade for your recordings and nothing changes there). If you're watching a live sporting event for example and it's pouring and your dish goes out, streaming would allow you to still watch the game.
 

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It makes no sense to try to transition people now, when the end of life for Directv satellite is a decade away. At least.

They have no reason to discourage people from signing up for satellite if they want it, and no guarantee that they can successful "transition" anyone to Directv Stream.
I don't think they are pushing to transition people right now, but that will come eventually, sooner rather than later. What is suggested in this thread is that they are looking at new hardware that might help facilitate that sort of transition. But look at their current advertising. There's almost no mention of satellite, and once ST goes away, there will be even less need to keep Sat around except for those situations where streaming won't work, at least for now. Heck, we are seeing major networks starting to think about sun-setting their linear TV infrastructure to some extent. More emphaiss on their streaming services that they can sell subscriptions to. Less expensive content (and more and more reality and game shows which cost much less), NBC even considering cutting an hour of primetime. This isn't what healthy infrastructures do. DirecTV sees where things are going. They aren't stupid. Satellite in the future will serve a niche, just like Satellite internet does. It just won't be nearly as good and the technology won't be developed in a way to promote it as THE solution any longer. As a long time sat user and an older person set in my ways, I don't like it either, but that's where we are headed. TV ten years from now is going to look MUCH different than what we see today.
 

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will live steaming tv get multicast? Maybe for some ISP's?? Satellite feeds for the sports bookies / bar's to show live sports (maybe even an commercial only service?) Let's say down the road netflix / hbo / etc add's sports well right now you can't get HBO / netflix at commercial public view locations
All TBD. I don't think we know the answers to any of this yet, but I can almost guarantee that content providers are already thinking about it.
 

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9-8-2022 at 7:33 AM - PDT

@JoeTheDragon

I don't know when this went into effect; but, Amazon Prime Video NOW has 'Sports' and will be broadcasting baseball and football games. My parents have Prime and WILL be watching games through Prime that WON'T be broadcasting on our DISH Network satellite services. (Since we are in California, any 'blacked out' 49ers Games will now be viewed by my parents on Prime.)


TimeLord04
They've had baseball games (at least Yankees) for at least 2 years now. They have the NFL Thursday night package (and have already shown one pre-season game). I think they may have MLS games (but I'm not a soccer fan). ATV+ has a Friday night baseball package. And of course ESPN+ has shown multiple games in multiple sports for a few years now.
 

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What % of the 14M DirecTV subs only use it for ST and/or sports? Do all the ST subs cancel their service during the off season? I don't use it for ST or sports.

Streaming already owns VOD. Not so much for live TV.

Which came first? The chicken or the egg? Or in the context of this thread, all the big hit shows aging out and not being replenished? Or people stopping to watch big hit shows for VOD only content?

As an older person (your words :D), you'll probably remember that network TV has gone through periods of dry spells where all the big hits aged out and they had trouble replenishing them "for a while".

Will the networks recover this time around? Or are they even trying? TBD. They'll need hit shows either way and I'd probably guess that "today", the big money is still for a hit show on network TV.

You'll know the sky is falling when the networks only have their big hit shows on VOD. Long time away I'd wager.
I'm sure it's a small percentage who have ST. What I'm saying is that ST is a reason some have stuck around with DirecTV and not moved on to OTT like DirecTV Stream or YouTube TV. Without ST, that incentive is no longer there. It's not the determining factor for the demise of Sat, but it adds to it.

Sure OTA has had down cycles where classic shows are ending. What they have NEVER had was the type of On Demand viewing that has completely changed the landscape of TV viewing NOR have they had a generation of TV viewers who care little about linear TV (those pesky channel numbers for example) and are used to just watching stuff whenever they want. The DVR changed the landscape somewhat and had networks scrambling but On Demand viewing to the extent the streamers offer means that you don't even have to record something, you just click on it and watch, either as soon as it drops or whenever you feel like it, and, you are not even tethered to your TV, you can watch when you want, where you want and on whatever device you want (I don't get wanting to watch on a phone, but whatever). In fact, you don't even have to watch "professional TV" if you don't want, you can watch amateur video on YouTube or Tik Tok or whatever medium you want. OTA and or Linear TV has never had that kind of challenge. It's a permanent downslide, compatible to automobiles replacing horses, or electric lights replacing oil lamps. Sorry, you and I are just used to the old way of doing things, but ask a teen or 20 something if they care about watching linear TV. Are they going to sit and watch Blue Bloods or even Dancing With the Stars? No, they appeal to folks like me. My 20 something daughter spends much more time on TIk Tok than she does watching ABC or even HBO. Advertising dollars will go to the new mediums. This is not a sky is falling situation, this is a change in scope situation. No sky is falling, it's just a change in the weather.
 

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I think the day of hit TV comedies is gone forever. You can't be funny without offending someone. And how many more cop shows can they come up with? Everything is moving to unscripted Reality TV so they don't have to pay writers and actors the big bucks.
This is especially true when you consider all the competition for advertising dollars and the diminished ratings for any linear TV show not named NFL Football. Cheap is the name of the game. Just look at what DTW is doing.
 

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No doubt young kids/teens aren't watching network TV, but again, I'd have to say that there aren't any hit shows on nowadays, those are all on HBO/Showtime and the VOD services. I can't even name a sitcom on the air now. The ones I watched are all gone.
You are correct. Now ask yourself why that is? You'll see very few of the types of hit shows you got in the 1980s and 1990s on network TV any more. Just look at the Emmy noms. OTA TV is barely recognized. You answered your own question. It's not a lull in quality on OTA (or even cable) TV, it's all moved somewhere else, and nobody is requiring you watch it at the time scheduled or on the linear channel either. That day is gone. You'll get an occasional blip on OTA TV, but those will be few and far between.
 

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Your argument is slightly flawed since they don't have those shows on streaming/vod either. Are there any good 3 cam sit coms on any of them? Hulu has How I Met Your Father, but I wouldn't rate that as good as the original by a long shot. Streaming has the more "stylistic" shows, I guess I'd call them and I do watch some of them, well, nothing right now. Only show I'm watching is a BBC drama import on govt use of deep fakes. Also not what I'd call a great show, but good enough to fill the summer gap. Some better ones will be the upcoming seasons of Your Honor and Departure. Your Honor is on Showtime, not streaming. And Departure I think is a Canada import that Peacock picked up.
Are there any good 3 cam sitcoms left on regular TV either? The best sitcom (IMO) is Young Sheldon and that's not a 3 cam sitcom. Even most of the better sitcoms have moved to streaming. Hacks, Only Murders in the Building, Barry (Ok, that's on linear HBO too) are streaming, not to mention Kim's Convenice and Workin' Moms (Netflix) and some others. I'm just saying most of the better quality shows are now streaming. What's left on regular TV is what appeals to older folks (4,000 versions of NCIS and L&O and reality and news/true crime stuff).
 
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