[TimeLord04]

Because the world has moved past 100 mbps. The cost of putting in a gigabit port is basically pennies.

8-31-2022 at 1:32 PM - PDT

@b4pjoe

BUT, The streaming services utilized by DISH and DirecTV equipment DOESN'T utilize anything close to 100Mb right now. Until such time as the equipment requires 'faster' than 100Mb, then there's no need, (in the minds of the makers of the STBs and DVRs), to have Gigabit LAN Ports on said equipment. [EDIT:] I forgot that the NIC and two Wired Ports on the Hopper3 are Gigabit... However; due to conflicts between our Hopper3 and our U-Verse Gateway, we've had to implement the Hopper Internet Connector which is 100Mb. BUT, the Joeys are ONLY 100Mb. However; my comments on the STBs for DISH and DirecTV stand, they only utilize 100Mb Ports right now.

Even our ROKU Ultra 4K Device ONLY utilizes a 100Mb Ethernet Port for Wired LAN connection.


TimeLord04

 

[TimeLord04]

Apple does it for a reason I suppose.

2:27 PM - PDT

Traditionally, Apple has usually been early adopters of new High End Tech. Within a short time, others follow.

I assume, that this is still the case, and since Apple has put Gigabit LAN Ports on their ATV Devices, other
services will follow. How long, will be determined by each individual service provider.


TimeLord04

 

[TimeLord04]

Apparently you weren't born yet when Apple dropped the PowerPC platform for Intel x86.

9-1-2022 at 12:48 PM - PDT

Actually, I DID HAVE a PPC/PowerMAC by PowerComputing. It was their 604/132, I maxed out the RAM to 96MB from TechnologyWerks, I had installed the Adaptec 3940UW SCSI Controller, installed a Quantum Atlas F&W SCSI 3GB Drive, and a Matrox Millennium 8MB WRAM PCI Video Card. It was purchased back in 1996, and was a clone of the Apple 9500.

It was the return of Steve Jobs, and his decision to 'Kill the Clones', that ended the PPC/PowerMAC Demand followed by the excuse that the PPC Architecture was 'Limited' and then Jobs moved from the PPC to Intel.

(Actually, as a Museum Piece, I still have my PowerComputing PowerWave 604/132 System - Intact.)


TimeLord04

 

[TimeLord04]

But even there while the increasingly complex WiFi such as in home mesh systems may be used for fronthaul traffic (between wireless clients and nodes). The preferred method for handling the backhaul traffic (between the mesh nodes) is still by ethernet cable.

Sent from my SM-S908U using Tapatalk

9-2-2022 at 8:10 PM - PDT

@HoTat2

So, let me get this straight, in plain English.... You're saying that one 'should' connect EACH MESH Node in a Daisy Chain, Node to Node to Node in order to perform your 'back haul' scenario....

This presumes that one has Ethernet in the walls to accommodate the Wired Connections from Node to Node to Node.... NOW, IF a person had Ethernet in the walls already, this makes a MESH System 'kinda moot', as you already have a superior Wired Connection throughout the home. In my family's situation, (which I've mentioned in many other Threads here in the DBS Forum), we CANNOT accomplish this as our home DOES NOT have Ethernet in the Walls. Our home was built in 1978, and while dad did major remodeling in 1996 he DID NOT put Ethernet in the walls, even then. Our solution to obtaining 'Wired' capabilities at EVERY STB, (Wireless Joey for our DISH Setup), we implemented our Linksys MESH Network.

With our MESH Network, we Wired ALL TV equipment at each TV location, (some Gigabit Switches were needed), and then connected said equipment by Cat-5 to EACH respective Node. The 'Child' Nodes, (we have four, one at each TV location), then communicate Wirelessly to the main Router Node. The Router Node then connects by Cat-5 to our U-Verse Gateway. We implemented this Network this way in order to obtain 'Wired' Ethernet connections to ALL TV Equipment. However; this means that we are GREATLY over provisioned with our MESH System's Wireless.

Even though we are over provisioned, we have NO issues on WiFi Connections via the MESH System; nor do we have any issues on the now Wired devices.

Our Main Router Node is a Tri-Band Linksys AC-2200, and our four 'Child' Nodes are all Dual Band AC-1300 models. DISH sold us the Tri-Band and two, (2), AC-1300 Nodes, and we added two, (2), more AC-1300's to eliminate the DISH WAPs that were getting in the way and causing HUGE pixelation issues on the Wireless Joeys. Our Hopper3 DVR required the use of DISH Network's Hopper Internet Connector to replace the stock NIC in the H3; as the H3's NIC was INCOMPATIBLE with our U-Verse Gateway. ALL DISH Equipment, therefore, is 100Mb Ethernet Connected by Cat-5, again, to each respective TV Location's MESH Node.

We even added a ROKU Ultra 4K and Wired it to the Node. We've had NO issues streaming Disney+, Paramount+, Prime Video, nor with Netflix. All streaming services run smoothly, no buffering, stuttering nor freezes. The DISH Network Equipment, likewise, has no issues in viewing live nor recorded TV shows. IF there's ANY issues with 'Hops' from Node to Node to Node to Router Node, we are NOT experiencing anything dramatic nor noticeable in our viewing experiences on any of our equipment. Speed Tests throughout the home on Wireless Devices show FULL 50Mb VDSL Broadband Speeds, and Wired Devices are communicating at FULL Gigabit, (100Mb on the Joeys), LAN Speeds over the entire Network. We've had NO noticeable 'bottlenecks' of any kind.

I'm NOT disputing that these 'bottlenecks' from 'Hop' to 'Hop' DON'T exist, but in our setup, we're NOT experiencing ANY problems. [EDIT:] Our home is 3,436 Sq. Ft. and is two stories.


TimeLord04

 

[TimeLord04]

No, my mention of ethernet "between the nodes" earlier was not meant to refer to any daisy-chaining of the nodes. But each satellite node having a direct ethernet backhaul link to the main router/node that connects to the modem or gateway.

But let me ask you this ...

If you could have conveniently run ethernet backhaul from those AC1300 satellites to the main AC2200 router/node, you wouldn't have chosen it over wireless?

As I myself live in a "very" old two-story home originally built in 1912 with (obviously) no ethernet of course and the interior walls made of old style lath and plaster construction. Which, and somewhat to my surprise, don't pass WiFi signals so great.

So I have a three node Asus XT8 mesh system with ethernet backhaul for two satellite nodes by means of D-band MoCA 2.5 adapters as it is comparatively easy to run coax cable throughout the house. ...

For the record: the main router/node then connects to an AT&T BGW-320 gateway set in "IP pass-through" mode to AT&T Fiber's 1gb up/down service. ....

Sent from my LM-V600 using Tapatalk

9-3-2022 at 4:36 PM - PDT

@HoTat2

IF I had access to Wired Ethernet throughout our home, I'd have NO reason for a MESH System at all.... HOWEVER; now knowing your home's limitations of WiFi signals and their 'lack of penetration' of the walls due to the original construction materials - I DO, now, see your need to do this.

Our MESH System seems to NOT have interference patterns in our home as it is of more modern construction, (drywall), than yours.

As to Fiber, (AT&T), we, here, in our city are STUCK waiting for the city to 'permit' trenching of the Fiber Cables to the homes in our developments. We are stuck in a Duopoly, whereby the city ONLY allows AT&T U-Verse, AND COMCAST, (now XFINITY), as 'Cable Services'. TV options beyond these two entities rely on Satellite services; so DISH Network, and DirecTV are allowed - with exceptions and bylaws of each community's HOA rules. (NOT having a Sat Dish visible, and so on....) As to Broadband Internet, we are DEFINITELY stuck by the city's Duopoly rules/laws.

Until AT&T Fiber gets the permits, only the 'old' section of our city has been retrofitted with AT&T Fiber via routing the fiber optic cables over the power line poles. AND, the newer construction zones are automatically permitted for trenching, so, they too get to have AT&T Fiber to the homes. Again, with our developments having been built in the 70s and 80s are just stuck in the middle waiting for the damned city to get off its duff and permit AT&T to trench the Fiber lines to the homes. So, we're stuck on the older VDSL model, and stuck at the 'maximum' of 50Mb Broadband. Thankfully, AT&T VDSL is 'Dedicated', so the Max Broadband Speed is 'True' and honest and DOES NOT dip below the 50Mb speeds.


TimeLord04

 

[TimeLord04]

So if I'm understanding you correctly there's really no functional or performance difference between a mesh system with direct ethernet backhaul (i.e., from each satellite node to the main router/node) and simply having multiple independent WAPs backhauled the same way?

Sent from my SM-S908U using Tapatalk

9-4-2022 at 3:41 AM - PDT

@HoTat2

I don't know about DirecTV's WAPs; but DISH Network's original WAPs, (they've just introduced a new model for the Wireless 4K Joey, which I do NOT have), were TERRIBLE, and introduced much interference and HIGH pixelations, usually full screen pixelations. So, in my current MESH Setup, I've eliminated, entirely, the need for DISH WAPs for our four, (4), Wireless Joeys. BUT, yet again, if I had access to Wired Ethernet in the walls, then I could have still Wired the Wireless Joeys just like I've got currently by wiring them to each respective MESH Node, and STILL completely eliminate the need of WAPs.

[EDIT:] However; going back to the fact that your home's construction far differs from mine with you having full plaster walls, and MUCH older electrical wiring with poor shielding and HIGH 'noise' levels - I see how you would need to modify how a MESH Network functions in your home by 'back hauling' the Nodes to the Parent/Primary Router Node. In your setup, this guarantees that you have solid WiFi connection for guests' wireless devices, and your own, throughout the home. More modern homes with drywall, and better insulated power lines, reduce noise and allow WiFi signals to more easily penetrate walls and such.


TimeLord04

 

[TimeLord04]

You mean you don't really have WiFi access for wireless clients (Smartphones, tablets, notebooks, etc.) to your home network?

Those AC1300 mesh nodes only function as wireless bridges for ethernet connected devices to backhaul them to the main AC2200 router/ node?

Oh, and to note: While my home's original frame, siding and interior walls were indeed built in 1912. All electrical and plumbing is relatively new. Having been replaced back in '05 ....

Sent from my SM-S908U using Tapatalk

7:36 AM - PDT

@HoTat2

I do have wireless devices. All three of my computers are WiFi on the 5GHz Band, my dad's two computers, (one Desktop and one Laptop), are also on the 5Ghz Band. My mom uses her iPad, and sometimes a spare Laptop that runs on 5GHz Band. We also, all, have iPhones on 5Ghz. My dad and I, each, have Kindles on 2.4GHz Band. All of these devices used to connect to the U-Verse Gateway, and at that time, (prior to our MESH Network), the Gateway was an NVG-599.

My three Desktop Systems all reside in the Attic/Office on the East side of the house. Dad's computers reside in the Master Bedroom, (2nd Floor), on the West side of the home. On the NVG-599, the 5GHz Band of the 599 DID have trouble reaching the Master Bedroom, and periodically and intermittently dad's computers would drop connectivity. Mom's iPad is NOT used as much as her iPhone, her iPad seemed to keep connection in the downstairs Family Room on the East side of the house. Her Laptop; however, had a 'weaker' connection to the Gateway, and DID intermittently drop connectivity.

Now; since implementing the MESH Network, these connections, (on WiFi), have 'stabilized' and are more solid, and do NOT drop connectivity any longer. More recently, AT&T has upgraded our Gateway to the BGW-210-700. Only our Ring Doorbell resides on the Gateway on the 2.4GHz Band; all other wireless devices are on the MESH Network.

All I'm saying is that had we originally had Wired capabilities throughout the home, we'd NOT have invested $450 into the Linksys MESH Network that we now have. Wired Networking is still FAR superior to ANY Wireless connection.

The AC-1300 'Child' Nodes 'Hop' wirelessly, (from various points throughout the home), to connect to the AC-2200 Router Node in the Attic/Office on the second floor, East side of the home. Access to the Attic/Office is through the upstairs Spare Bedroom, (Bedroom 3), NOT in my Schematic Diagram, previously attached to a prior Post in this Thread. AND each AC-1300 Node has Wired Ports, ("Gigabit"), to take the 'Wired' Devices that connect to each respective Node and transmit the data wirelessly back to the AC-2200. IF this is defined as a 'bridge' then, yes, that is the function of our AC-1300 'Child' Nodes. (Four, (4), of them throughout the home.) So, I'm NOT saying that the MESH WiFi hasn't had benefit for us, just that IF we'd had Cat-5 or Cat-5e in the walls, it would have been more beneficial for the TV equipment, which was/is our priority.

[EDIT:]

Except for the new BGW-210 Gateway, this entire DISH Network and MESH Setup has been running since Feb 24, 2021. (OH, and the HIC Device in the schematic was installed in August of 2021 to resolve the 'incompatibilities' between the DISH Hopper3 and U-Verse Gateways.)


TimeLord04

 

[TimeLord04]

Were you trying to run the DISH WAPs at the same time as a mesh system or another Wi-Fi system?

10:48 AM - PDT

@James Long

In our first 24 Hours of use on DISH, we had NOT yet implemented the MESH Network. The DISH Installer Tech stated that "...there are issues with DISH WAPs, which is why we don't recommend Wireless Joeys. If you have connectivity issues, we'll have to come back out and install a MESH system."

Well, into the first evening, the Master Bedroom location DID have MAJOR pixelation issues. We called the next day, they immediately came out and installed the AC-2200 Router Node and two of our AC-1300 Nodes. They moved one WAP downstairs to the Family Room to 'better stabilize connectivity to that room', AND the other WAP to the Master Bedroom. EACH WAP was connected by Ethernet, (Cat-5), to each respective AC-1300 Node, one Node in the Family Room and one Node in the Master Bedroom.

We STILL had issues with pixelations, (Full Screen Pixelations), on ALL TVs in the house. I came up with the idea of removing the WAPs ENTIRELY, purchasing TWO MORE AC-1300 Nodes, (for a total of 4 AC-1300 Nodes), and then connecting EACH Wireless Joey to EACH AC-1300 Node. With this setup, NO MORE pixelations nor connectivity issues on ANY of the four, (4), Wireless Joeys. ONLY the troublesome NIC issues of the Hopper3 remained, which after 6 Months of HELL, again I found the solution of the Hopper Internet Connector, (HIC), Device to FINALLY resolve the communication/connectivity issues of the H3 and the U-Verse Gateway.

It's been a year and a week since installing the HIC, and just about a year and a half since the MESH Network, and NOW we have 'Bulletproof' TV in the house.

[EDIT:] Since the DirecTV patrons here, (most likely), may not have ventured into the DISH area of DBSTalk, I'll state here, (and again for those whom have read my prior Posts in the DISH area), we COULD NOT make use of Wired, (COAX - RG-6), Joeys as our home has DECREPIT COAX cabling. According to the last U-Verse Tech/Installer that was out here when we were still on U-300 TV Service, "...Somewhere in your walls is at least one 90 Degree bend in your cabling. This is where your TV issues and pixelations are coming from." So, when we switched over to DISH for TV Services, I INSISTED on Wireless Joeys.


TimeLord04

 

[TimeLord04]

Ok, but if you had ethernet throughout house then what type of system would you have chosen to distribute WiFi access over the house if Mesh systems like the Linksys you bought there would now be unnecessary?

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11:19 AM - PDT

@HoTat2

We would just have remained on the WiFi of the U-Verse Gateway. For the computers could all have been Wired, except mom's Laptop that resides downstairs. However; she rarely uses the thing; instead, using her iPad or her iPhone - both of which had NO wireless connectivity issues with the U-Verse Gateway.

Likewise, my iPhone and dad's iPhone, and both of our Kindles never had connectivity issues with the U-Verse Gateway, either. So, again, had we had proper Cat-5 or Cat-5e in the walls, the MESH System would have been moot. We could just have installed a couple of Gigabit Switches at the Wired locations in the house and Wired ALL TV Equipment, (STBs and the H3 DVR), without issue. The results would have just about been the same as what we now have. In fact, IF we had had Ethernet in the walls, we'd most likely STILL be on U-Verse U-300 TV Service; as all the U-Verse STBs CAN connect via Ethernet.


TimeLord04

 

[TimeLord04]

Wow, I'm envious then ...

As your home's construction is indeed a very "RF friendly" environment (at least to WiFi frequencies). That is if only the one WAP built into the gateway would be sufficient to cover your entire house if it were wired for ethernet.

I could never get away with that here, for instance while typing this post right near one of the XT8 nodes in my bedroom at the west end of the house. Looking at my network analyzer app naturally shows a good signal strength in the -25 to -40 dbm range on the 5 GHz band for the nearby node.

But the other two nodes, one in a centrally located dining room (main router/node) and the other in the upstairs hallway are both within 50 ft. of my bedroom. And even with the bedroom door open are way down in the -70 dbm to -85 dbm range.

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9-5-2022 at 7:54 AM - PDT

@HoTat2

Well, don't get me wrong here.... I didn't say that the U-Verse Gateway's 'reach' was perfect. It's 5GHz Band DOESN'T reach the full West end of the house. For, again, as I stated in an earlier post that my dad's two computers, (one Desktop and one Laptop), DID have trouble keeping wireless connectivity at that West end of the home. It's just that IF we had had Wired Ethernet in the walls, that his computers would have been Wired, thus eliminating the need for the MESH System. Mom's Laptop, IF used more often, would also have had issues IF the home had been Wired, for even though the Family Room is on the East end of the house, the 5GHz Band of the Gateway, (also on the East end of the home), had issues reaching from the upstairs attic down through the attic floor to the Family Room, and the proposed Wired Cable would have been in the East Northeast corner of the room for the TV Equipment - NOT allowing her Laptop to connect Wired.

ONLY the 2.4GHz Band of the Gateway could reach the West end of the home. BUT, the computers kept trying to connect to the 5GHz band, regardless.... No, the Gateway is NOT the perfect solution, either, BUT, in a mostly Wired environment in our home, (again, had we had Wired Ethernet throughout), I don't think dad could have justified the need to spend $450 on the MESH we now have. HOWEVER; because of the GREAT need to have the Wired Ports of the MESH at EVERY TV location, the $450 was more than justified, because it became a requirement and a necessity for ALL TV locations in the home.

[EDIT:] The added benefit of GREATLY improved WiFi 'reach' was just 'gravy' or 'icing on the cake'. For, now, dad's computers connect at the MESH Node in the Master Bedroom on the 5GHz Band without issue. Then, that Node 'Hops' back to the Router Node at the East end of the home, most likely with another 'Hop' at my Bedroom 1's MESH Node, which is in between the Router Node and Master Bedroom.... So, everything has just worked out, as it should, by having the MESH Network in place.

[EDIT 2:] AND, I'm VERY glad to have the MESH Network. However; dad owns the house, and he makes the decisions on how and where his money is spent. If it hadn't been for the basic 'requirement' to have the MESH Network to complete and resolve the TV Equipment issues, he would NOT have justified to himself the need to spend $450 on the MESH 'just to improve the WiFi connectivity' in our home. He's VERY frugal with his money, and he's also a non-technical person. IF something works at all, even if it's NOT perfect, (like the WiFi of the U-Verse Gateway), he'll keep using it until he feels justified in going another, better but more expensive, route.

[EDIT 3:] Had I had the money myself, we would have had MESH over 2 & 1/2 years ago. MOST likely would have been an EERO Pro System. However; now that the cheaper Linksys System is installed, I'm MORE than pleased in how it operates and is maintained by an App on my iPhone. There, also, is a 'Web' Login when I'm at my Hackintosh on Firefox. In the year and a half of operation on the Linksys MESH Network, we've had ONE issue with the Family Room Node. It lost connectivity to the Router Node after a Linksys Firmware update. ALL other Nodes were lit in blue, including the AC-2200 Router Node, BUT when turning the Family Room TV on, there was a message at the top of the TV screen stating, "...Reboot Router." It was then that I noticed the Family Room Node was lit in red.

I rebooted the Family Room Node, first, and found no change.... I then rebooted the AC-2200 and then went back down to the Family Room Node to find it FINALLY lit in blue. The easily visible lights at the top of each Node on Linksys MESH Systems is MUCH better than the EERO Pro Nodes. Setup via the App is virtually identical in the way that both Linksys and EERO are set up at initial installation. Both resolve weak WiFi connectivity pretty evenly.


TimeLord04

 

[TimeLord04]

will live steaming tv get multicast? Maybe for some ISP's?? Satellite feeds for the sports bookies / bar's to show live sports (maybe even an commercial only service?) Let's say down the road netflix / hbo / etc add's sports well right now you can't get HBO / netflix at commercial public view locations

9-8-2022 at 7:33 AM - PDT

@JoeTheDragon

I don't know when this went into effect; but, Amazon Prime Video NOW has 'Sports' and will be broadcasting baseball and football games. My parents have Prime and WILL be watching games through Prime that WON'T be broadcasting on our DISH Network satellite services. (Since we are in California, any 'blacked out' 49ers Games will now be viewed by my parents on Prime.)


TimeLord04

 

[TimeLord04]

Yeah I noticed that but still a pain to switch from channel 2 to 671. The box/remote would be a must.

9-12-2022 at 1:02 PM - PDT

On DISH, with the Hopper3, (H3), and our Wireless Joey STBs, (we have four, (4), of these), we use the Model '54' Remotes on each Joey and one '54' on the H3. (Actually, the H3 sits in our Attic/Office NOT being viewed as a TV Source in our home. I initially wanted the H3 to be 'headless'; (like the U-Verse ViP-2550 DVR on our old U-300 TV Services), BUT, since the H3 is more 'computer' than a DVR/STB, it really MUST have at least a computer monitor attached for 'diagnostics' and such. We have an ASUS VE-228 22" Monitor attached to the H3 for 'diagnostics' and when we have the need of Customer Service for arisen issues of lack of service.) The '54' Model Remotes have a 'Recall' Button almost dead center on the remote. When you want to 'flip' between two different channels, (once your desired channels have been entered), you just hit 'Recall' to immediately switch to the other chosen channel.


TimeLord04

 

[TimeLord04]

Well right now I don't need 14. Once the new shows fire up I pretty much record everything I want to watch and watch later so I can FF through commercials. Of course with the quality of shows these days I may be able to do with fewer tuners than what I previously needed.

1:10 PM - PDT

We DON'T really need the 16 Streams of the H3, either; BUT, this is a MARKED IMPROVEMENT over U-Verse Uxyz TV Services. The U-Verse TV packages, (and we were on the U-300 Package, before switching to DISH), ARE LOCKED at a MAXIMUM of Four, (4), Streams.... SO, on U-Verse, you can record 3 Shows and watch one live, or record 4 Shows and watch one of the recordings, 'live'-while being recorded.... OR, force someone in the house to have to KILL a Stream to free up one, (1), Stream Band.

The day we switched to DISH, ALL this changed for the better! While we don't get up to recording 12 Streams and then can watch 4 others anywhere in the house with a Joey, we have managed to get to 8 Streams recording while watching two, (2), other Streams live. Also, recording space seems more flexible on the H3 than the U-Verse ViP-2550, and we don't have to erase recorded shows until WE WANT to erase them. PLUS, the advantage of installing an External Drive to the H3 to increase the recording space up to 7TB of External Drive Space. U-Verse DOESN'T let you connect External Drives.


TimeLord04

 

[TimeLord04]

I think the Hopper 3 looks too big. I think it's about 16" wide, right? Too bad DTV couldn't do one more DVR that would really small not sure how small it could get having something like the PS5's 1 TB SSD drive. It would have at least 5 tuners, HDMI 2.1 output, WIFI 6 and broadband for bad weather backup. Also have the Android TV operator's tier.

1:23 PM - PDT

@CraigerM

I haven't measured the H3 DVR, but at a glance, you are probably close if not exact on the length of the H3. But, again, for us the H3 sits, unused/unviewed directly. It's a box in the Attic/Office and is the central Hub of our DISH Services, but, (like the U-Verse ViP-2550 before it in our home), we only watch TV from one of the other 4 Wireless Joey STBs in the house.

There are three of us in our home; my parents, and myself. If I choose NOT to watch what they want to watch in the family room, I go up to my room and watch what I choose to watch.


TimeLord04