[HoTat2]

More and more people are choosing to implement increasingly complex Wi-fi configurations rather than stringing CAT6.

But even there while the increasingly complex WiFi such as in home mesh systems may be used for fronthaul traffic (between wireless clients and nodes). The preferred method for handling the backhaul traffic (between the mesh nodes) is still by ethernet cable.

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[harsh]

The preferred method for handling the backhaul traffic (between the mesh nodes) is still by ethernet cable.

Preferred by whom (the product designers or the consumers)? The optimal method isn't the typical method and the RJ45 jack(s) may be used for hardwiring rather than backhauling. The Google Nest satellites don't include an RJ45 port.

How forum members connect their satellites might be an interesting poll question (assuming the forum software stills supports polls).

 

[NashGuy]

Given that the DIRECTV Stream Device doesn't support DECA, this would be a fairly radical departure and not a drop-in replacement for a Genie Mini.

Maybe it's more accurate to say that this forthcoming box will be more of a direct replacement for the current Wireless Genie Mini (C41W) than the Genie Mini (C61).

 

[NashGuy]

Are there any A21KW-500 units in the wild?

Don't think so. It was submitted to the FCC for approval awhile back. There are specs and a stock photo out there but I think that's just based on what we know between the hardware platform that Humax announced (which we've figured out is the platform the A21KW-500 uses).

https://www.androidtv-guide.com/pay-tv-provider/att-tv-2/

 

[harsh]

Don't think so. It was submitted to the FCC for approval awhile back.

It was submitted in late June 2021 and apparently approved almost immediately.

The A21KW-500 ("A" for AT&T) manual specifically says "The box and remote control are not compatible with any older DIRECTV or AT&T U-verse® equipment" but that might be worked around with a suitable DIRECTV app.

A survey question is not a particularly authoritative source of what's in the queue -- I would have thought that a survey would precede a product, not come after the product has received FCC approval. I'm inclined to believe that this isn't something designed around AT&T TV and is (or will be) a new product that includes MoCA functionality. Something very much like DISH's new Joey 4.

 

[James Long]

Looks like the first mention was in January 2021:

ATT TV (DIRECTV Stream) - a little review

Yup. Apple has a notorious history of pushing updates and not giving the app developers time to test and patch I am sure there will be a TVOS 14.4.1 or a ATT TV app update sometime in the next week here Eh the one thing I can't really bash Apple over is how quickly the update the software and...

www.dbstalk.com

 

[HoTat2]

Preferred by whom (the product designers or the consumers)? The optimal method isn't the typical method and the RJ45 jack(s) may be used for hardwiring rather than backhauling. The Google Nest satellites don't include an RJ45 port.

How forum members connect their satellites might be an interesting poll question (assuming the forum software stills supports polls).

Should be preferred by anyone using a mesh system. I mean it's obvious (if it can be conveniently done of course). ...

As one downside to mesh Wi-Fi systems is that data travels from node to node to the router and then back again using the wireless backhaul, meaning each packet of data must make multiple stops in each direction of its journey of your mesh network drastically reducing the connection speed per hop.

Using an Ethernet backhaul means that outgoing traffic can travel directly back to the router via a high-speed LAN port, faster and more reliably than any current wireless technology could match.

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[James Long]

It depends on what one is doing with the system. Mesh systems have enough throughput for most use cases. That being said, wired backhauls are a common feature. The Google Nest that harsh noted does not have wired connections to the "WiFi Point" that they use as extenders for their "WiFi Router". Fortunately they do have a LAN port on the router (otherwise I would need to find a different solution). I have a Nest system with a router connected via WAN port to my ISP's gateway device and a GB switch connected to the LAN port on that router. The GB switch feeds the things I want wired (or that don't due wireless). The WiFi mesh works fine serving local users on the router and the point.

 

[TimeLord04]

But even there while the increasingly complex WiFi such as in home mesh systems may be used for fronthaul traffic (between wireless clients and nodes). The preferred method for handling the backhaul traffic (between the mesh nodes) is still by ethernet cable.

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9-2-2022 at 8:10 PM - PDT

@HoTat2

So, let me get this straight, in plain English.... You're saying that one 'should' connect EACH MESH Node in a Daisy Chain, Node to Node to Node in order to perform your 'back haul' scenario....

This presumes that one has Ethernet in the walls to accommodate the Wired Connections from Node to Node to Node.... NOW, IF a person had Ethernet in the walls already, this makes a MESH System 'kinda moot', as you already have a superior Wired Connection throughout the home. In my family's situation, (which I've mentioned in many other Threads here in the DBS Forum), we CANNOT accomplish this as our home DOES NOT have Ethernet in the Walls. Our home was built in 1978, and while dad did major remodeling in 1996 he DID NOT put Ethernet in the walls, even then. Our solution to obtaining 'Wired' capabilities at EVERY STB, (Wireless Joey for our DISH Setup), we implemented our Linksys MESH Network.

With our MESH Network, we Wired ALL TV equipment at each TV location, (some Gigabit Switches were needed), and then connected said equipment by Cat-5 to EACH respective Node. The 'Child' Nodes, (we have four, one at each TV location), then communicate Wirelessly to the main Router Node. The Router Node then connects by Cat-5 to our U-Verse Gateway. We implemented this Network this way in order to obtain 'Wired' Ethernet connections to ALL TV Equipment. However; this means that we are GREATLY over provisioned with our MESH System's Wireless.

Even though we are over provisioned, we have NO issues on WiFi Connections via the MESH System; nor do we have any issues on the now Wired devices.

Our Main Router Node is a Tri-Band Linksys AC-2200, and our four 'Child' Nodes are all Dual Band AC-1300 models. DISH sold us the Tri-Band and two, (2), AC-1300 Nodes, and we added two, (2), more AC-1300's to eliminate the DISH WAPs that were getting in the way and causing HUGE pixelation issues on the Wireless Joeys. Our Hopper3 DVR required the use of DISH Network's Hopper Internet Connector to replace the stock NIC in the H3; as the H3's NIC was INCOMPATIBLE with our U-Verse Gateway. ALL DISH Equipment, therefore, is 100Mb Ethernet Connected by Cat-5, again, to each respective TV Location's MESH Node.

We even added a ROKU Ultra 4K and Wired it to the Node. We've had NO issues streaming Disney+, Paramount+, Prime Video, nor with Netflix. All streaming services run smoothly, no buffering, stuttering nor freezes. The DISH Network Equipment, likewise, has no issues in viewing live nor recorded TV shows. IF there's ANY issues with 'Hops' from Node to Node to Node to Router Node, we are NOT experiencing anything dramatic nor noticeable in our viewing experiences on any of our equipment. Speed Tests throughout the home on Wireless Devices show FULL 50Mb VDSL Broadband Speeds, and Wired Devices are communicating at FULL Gigabit, (100Mb on the Joeys), LAN Speeds over the entire Network. We've had NO noticeable 'bottlenecks' of any kind.

I'm NOT disputing that these 'bottlenecks' from 'Hop' to 'Hop' DON'T exist, but in our setup, we're NOT experiencing ANY problems. [EDIT:] Our home is 3,436 Sq. Ft. and is two stories.


TimeLord04

 

[PMA]

Saw the heading for this thread so I quickly scanned all of the inputs. I don't understand all the engineering protocols being discussed but wanted to ask a question about whether any new hardware from DirecTV might offer improved audio such as Dolby Atmos. Their 4k channels are limited but it would also be great to get more HDR content as well. My AppleTV can do both so I generally will watch content on that box to get higher quality audio and video. Seems that DirecTV is falling behind in that regard.

 

[HoTat2]

9-2-2022 at 8:10 PM - PDT

@HoTat2

So, let me get this straight, in plain English.... You're saying that one 'should' connect EACH MESH Node in a Daisy Chain, Node to Node to Node in order to perform your 'back haul' scenario....

This presumes that one has Ethernet in the walls to accommodate the Wired Connections from Node to Node to Node.... NOW, IF a person had Ethernet in the walls already, this makes a MESH System 'kinda moot', as you already have a superior Wired Connection throughout the home. In my family's situation, (which I've mentioned in many other Threads here in the DBS Forum), we CANNOT accomplish this as our home DOES NOT have Ethernet in the Walls. Our home was built in 1978, and while dad did major remodeling in 1996 he DID NOT put Ethernet in the walls, even then. Our solution to obtaining 'Wired' capabilities at EVERY STB, (Wireless Joey for our DISH Setup), we implemented our Linksys MESH Network.

With our MESH Network, we Wired ALL TV equipment at each TV location, (some Gigabit Switches were needed), and then connected said equipment by Cat-5 to EACH respective Node. The 'Child' Nodes, (we have four, one at each TV location), then communicate Wirelessly to the main Router Node. The Router Node then connects by Cat-5 to our U-Verse Gateway. We implemented this Network this way in order to obtain 'Wired' Ethernet connections to ALL TV Equipment. However; this means that we are GREATLY over provisioned with our MESH System's Wireless.

Even though we are over provisioned, we have NO issues on WiFi Connections via the MESH System; nor do we have any issues on the now Wired devices.

Our Main Router Node is a Tri-Band Linksys AC-2200, and our four 'Child' Nodes are all Dual Band AC-1300 models. DISH sold us the Tri-Band and two, (2), AC-1300 Nodes, and we added two, (2), more AC-1300's to eliminate the DISH WAPs that were getting in the way and causing HUGE pixelation issues on the Wireless Joeys. Our Hopper3 DVR required the use of DISH Network's Hopper Internet Connector to replace the stock NIC in the H3; as the H3's NIC was INCOMPATIBLE with our U-Verse Gateway. ALL DISH Equipment, therefore, is 100Mb Ethernet Connected by Cat-5, again, to each respective TV Location's MESH Node.

We even added a ROKU Ultra 4K and Wired it to the Node. We've had NO issues streaming Disney+, Paramount+, Prime Video, nor with Netflix. All streaming services run smoothly, no buffering, stuttering nor freezes. The DISH Network Equipment, likewise, has no issues in viewing live nor recorded TV shows. IF there's ANY issues with 'Hops' from Node to Node to Node to Router Node, we are NOT experiencing anything dramatic nor noticeable in our viewing experiences on any of our equipment. Speed Tests throughout the home on Wireless Devices show FULL 50Mb VDSL Broadband Speeds, and Wired Devices are communicating at FULL Gigabit, (100Mb on the Joeys), LAN Speeds over the entire Network. We've had NO noticeable 'bottlenecks' of any kind.

I'm NOT disputing that these 'bottlenecks' from 'Hop' to 'Hop' DON'T exist, but in our setup, we're NOT experiencing ANY problems. [EDIT:] Our home is 3,436 Sq. Ft. and is two stories.


TimeLord04

No, my mention of ethernet "between the nodes" earlier was not meant to refer to any daisy-chaining of the nodes. But each satellite node having a direct ethernet backhaul link to the main router/node that connects to the modem or gateway.

But let me ask you this ...

If you could have conveniently run ethernet backhaul from those AC1300 satellites to the main AC2200 router/node, you wouldn't have chosen it over wireless?

As I myself live in a "very" old two-story home originally built in 1912 with (obviously) no ethernet of course and the interior walls made of old style lath and plaster construction. Which, and somewhat to my surprise, don't pass WiFi signals so great.

So I have a three node Asus XT8 mesh system with ethernet backhaul for two satellite nodes by means of D-band MoCA 2.5 adapters as it is comparatively easy to run coax cable throughout the house. ...

For the record: the main router/node then connects to an AT&T BGW-320 gateway set in "IP pass-through" mode to AT&T Fiber's 1gb up/down service. ....

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[harsh]

So I have a three node Asus XT8 mesh system with ethernet backhaul for two satellite nodes by means of D-band MoCA 2.5 adapters as it is comparatively easy to run coax cable throughout the house. ...

How is it "comparatively easy" to run coax versus CAT6?

 

[HoTat2]

How is it "comparatively easy" to run coax versus CAT6?

Well, while I'm a bit embarrassed to say ....

The truth is whereas I still have no problems with stripping and attaching coax connectors to RG-6 cable at my near senior citizen age. I seem to be all thumbs at attaching RJ-45 connectors to cat cable ends ...

Sign ....

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[harsh]

The truth is whereas I still have no problems with stripping and attaching coax connectors to RG-6 cable at my near senior citizen age. I seem to be all thumbs at attaching RJ-45 connectors to cat cable ends ...

They have connectors for that. Search Amazon for "RJ45 EZ". Many of these products will work with either stranded or solid conductor cable.

CAT6 has too many advantages (and possible uses) compared to RG6.

 

[b4pjoe]

I can attest that the "RJ45 EZ" plugs are easier than old type of plugs but as someone with arthritis in both hands they are still no picnic.

 

[harsh]

I can attest that the "RJ45 EZ" plugs are easier than old type of plugs but as someone with arthritis in both hands they are still no picnic.

Terminating any kind of cable is no picnic if you're plagued with arthritis. The feed-through plugs can solve problems with both dexterity and visual acuity.

 

[HoTat2]

They have connectors for that. Search Amazon for "RJ45 EZ". Many of these products will work with either stranded or solid conductor cable.

CAT6 has too many advantages (and possible uses) compared to RG6.

I can attest that the "RJ45 EZ" plugs are easier than old type of plugs but as someone with arthritis in both hands they are still no picnic.

Yeah I switched to those type of "pass-through" connectors and bought the highly rated $50 pass-through crimper tool from Klein Tools (VDV226-110).

But admittedly I still struggle to keep those eight little wires to lay straight and flat and stay in the correct order before insertion into the connector.

Also on the large roll of solid core cat-6 cable I have, has a spline with an "x" shaped cross-section running through the cable with the wires that make it difficult to get the wires to lay completely flat even when I trim the spline back as far as I can with nipper cutters.

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[harsh]

Sounds like it might be time to teach someone else to terminate cables for you. It is a handy skill and you know what needs to be done.

 

[NashGuy]

I'm inclined to believe that this isn't something designed around AT&T TV and is (or will be) a new product that includes MoCA functionality. Something very much like DISH's new Joey 4.

Anything's possible but I don't see DTV making a new dedicated piece of hardware to bring Android TV to DTV satellite customers just so that it can have built-in MoCA. I think they'll just dual-purpose either the existing DTV Stream box (C71) or roll out a next-gen replacement for that box to serve both use cases. So on the satellite side, the box would work very much like DISH's Wireless Joey 4, which runs Android TV Operator Tier and connects via wifi to a full-blown Hopper DVR to fetch live satellite TV streams as well as DVR recordings. The Android TV OS and its apps reside directly on the Joey.

https://www.androidtv-guide.com/pay-tv-provider/dish-wireless-joey-4/

 

[TimeLord04]

No, my mention of ethernet "between the nodes" earlier was not meant to refer to any daisy-chaining of the nodes. But each satellite node having a direct ethernet backhaul link to the main router/node that connects to the modem or gateway.

But let me ask you this ...

If you could have conveniently run ethernet backhaul from those AC1300 satellites to the main AC2200 router/node, you wouldn't have chosen it over wireless?

As I myself live in a "very" old two-story home originally built in 1912 with (obviously) no ethernet of course and the interior walls made of old style lath and plaster construction. Which, and somewhat to my surprise, don't pass WiFi signals so great.

So I have a three node Asus XT8 mesh system with ethernet backhaul for two satellite nodes by means of D-band MoCA 2.5 adapters as it is comparatively easy to run coax cable throughout the house. ...

For the record: the main router/node then connects to an AT&T BGW-320 gateway set in "IP pass-through" mode to AT&T Fiber's 1gb up/down service. ....

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9-3-2022 at 4:36 PM - PDT

@HoTat2

IF I had access to Wired Ethernet throughout our home, I'd have NO reason for a MESH System at all.... HOWEVER; now knowing your home's limitations of WiFi signals and their 'lack of penetration' of the walls due to the original construction materials - I DO, now, see your need to do this.

Our MESH System seems to NOT have interference patterns in our home as it is of more modern construction, (drywall), than yours.

As to Fiber, (AT&T), we, here, in our city are STUCK waiting for the city to 'permit' trenching of the Fiber Cables to the homes in our developments. We are stuck in a Duopoly, whereby the city ONLY allows AT&T U-Verse, AND COMCAST, (now XFINITY), as 'Cable Services'. TV options beyond these two entities rely on Satellite services; so DISH Network, and DirecTV are allowed - with exceptions and bylaws of each community's HOA rules. (NOT having a Sat Dish visible, and so on....) As to Broadband Internet, we are DEFINITELY stuck by the city's Duopoly rules/laws.

Until AT&T Fiber gets the permits, only the 'old' section of our city has been retrofitted with AT&T Fiber via routing the fiber optic cables over the power line poles. AND, the newer construction zones are automatically permitted for trenching, so, they too get to have AT&T Fiber to the homes. Again, with our developments having been built in the 70s and 80s are just stuck in the middle waiting for the damned city to get off its duff and permit AT&T to trench the Fiber lines to the homes. So, we're stuck on the older VDSL model, and stuck at the 'maximum' of 50Mb Broadband. Thankfully, AT&T VDSL is 'Dedicated', so the Max Broadband Speed is 'True' and honest and DOES NOT dip below the 50Mb speeds.


TimeLord04