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9-3-2022 at 4:36 PM - PDT

@HoTat2

IF I had access to Wired Ethernet throughout our home, I'd have NO reason for a MESH System at all.... HOWEVER; now knowing your home's limitations of WiFi signals and their 'lack of penetration' of the walls due to the original construction materials - I DO, now, see your need to do this.

Our MESH System seems to NOT have interference patterns in our home as it is of more modern construction, (drywall), than yours.

As to Fiber, (AT&T), we, here, in our city are STUCK waiting for the city to 'permit' trenching of the Fiber Cables to the homes in our developments. We are stuck in a Duopoly, whereby the city ONLY allows AT&T U-Verse, AND COMCAST, (now XFINITY), as 'Cable Services'. TV options beyond these two entities rely on Satellite services; so DISH Network, and DirecTV are allowed - with exceptions and bylaws of each community's HOA rules. (NOT having a Sat Dish visible, and so on....) As to Broadband Internet, we are DEFINITELY stuck by the city's Duopoly rules/laws.

Until AT&T Fiber gets the permits, only the 'old' section of our city has been retrofitted with AT&T Fiber via routing the fiber optic cables over the power line poles. AND, the newer construction zones are automatically permitted for trenching, so, they too get to have AT&T Fiber to the homes. Again, with our developments having been built in the 70s and 80s are just stuck in the middle waiting for the damned city to get off its duff and permit AT&T to trench the Fiber lines to the homes. So, we're stuck on the older VDSL model, and stuck at the 'maximum' of 50Mb Broadband. Thankfully, AT&T VDSL is 'Dedicated', so the Max Broadband Speed is 'True' and honest and DOES NOT dip below the 50Mb speeds.


TimeLord04
So if I'm understanding you correctly there's really no functional or performance difference between a mesh system with direct ethernet backhaul (i.e., from each satellite node to the main router/node) and simply having multiple independent WAPs backhauled the same way?

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How is it "comparatively easy" to run coax versus CAT6?
Running cable is running cable, it is a pain in an existing home either way.

My original point was that new homes are being built with cat5 wiring to every room, and without coax. The opposite situation was the rule 20 years ago. So Directv having hardware that's compatible with ethernet instead of insisting on coax would make sense.

That doesn't stop them from continuing to support wireless. That's probably their preference over any wired method, but wireless isn't a solution for every case. Not supporting ethernet in 2022 is just dumb.

They already are to a limited extent - that's how people are connecting their Genie to the internet in many cases. They just have to extend that to supporting clients connected via ethernet.
 
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· Mr. FixAnything
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But admittedly I still struggle to keep those eight little wires to lay straight and flat and stay in the correct order before insertion into the connector.
There is a trick from my own experience - when you made flat all the 8 wires, cur them even, hold it tight and bent all of then while keep it flat and straight, do that a couple times before begin inserting into RJ-45 jack.
 

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So if I'm understanding you correctly there's really no functional or performance difference between a mesh system with direct ethernet backhaul (i.e., from each satellite node to the main router/node) and simply having multiple independent WAPs backhauled the same way?

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9-4-2022 at 3:41 AM - PDT

@HoTat2

I don't know about DirecTV's WAPs; but DISH Network's original WAPs, (they've just introduced a new model for the Wireless 4K Joey, which I do NOT have), were TERRIBLE, and introduced much interference and HIGH pixelations, usually full screen pixelations. So, in my current MESH Setup, I've eliminated, entirely, the need for DISH WAPs for our four, (4), Wireless Joeys. BUT, yet again, if I had access to Wired Ethernet in the walls, then I could have still Wired the Wireless Joeys just like I've got currently by wiring them to each respective MESH Node, and STILL completely eliminate the need of WAPs.

[EDIT:] However; going back to the fact that your home's construction far differs from mine with you having full plaster walls, and MUCH older electrical wiring with poor shielding and HIGH 'noise' levels - I see how you would need to modify how a MESH Network functions in your home by 'back hauling' the Nodes to the Parent/Primary Router Node. In your setup, this guarantees that you have solid WiFi connection for guests' wireless devices, and your own, throughout the home. More modern homes with drywall, and better insulated power lines, reduce noise and allow WiFi signals to more easily penetrate walls and such.


TimeLord04
 

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Discussion Starter · #125 ·
My original point was that new homes are being built with cat5 wiring to every room
I'd be pretty upset if a contractor ran Cat5 in a new home I was paying for. I would want Cat 6a to future proof my new home. And if money was no problem maybe even Cat 8.


Ethernet Cable Performance Summary
CategoryShieldingMax Transmission Speed (at 100 meters)Max Bandwidth
Cat 3Unshielded10 Mbps16 MHz
Cat 5Unshielded10/100 Mbps100 MHz
Cat 5eUnshielded1000 Mbps / 1 Gbps100 MHz
Cat 6Shielded or Unshielded1000 Mbps / 1 Gbps>250 MHz
Cat 6aShielded10000 Mbps / 10 Gbps500 MHz
Cat 7Shielded10000 Mbps / 10 Gbps600 MHz
Cat 8Shielded25 Gbps or 40Gbps *2000 MHz

* 25 Gbps for Cat 8.1 and 40 Gbps for Cat 8.2.
 

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You mean you don't really have WiFi access for wireless clients (Smartphones, tablets, notebooks, etc.) to your home network?

Those AC1300 mesh nodes only function as wireless bridges for ethernet connected devices to backhaul them to the main AC2200 router/ node?

Oh, and to note: While my home's original frame, siding and interior walls were indeed built in 1912. All electrical and plumbing is relatively new. Having been replaced back in '05 .... :)

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You mean you don't really have WiFi access for wireless clients (Smartphones, tablets, notebooks, etc.) to your home network?

Those AC1300 mesh nodes only function as wireless bridges for ethernet connected devices to backhaul them to the main AC2200 router/ node?

Oh, and to note: While my home's original frame, siding and interior walls were indeed built in 1912. All electrical and plumbing is relatively new. Having been replaced back in '05 .... :)

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7:36 AM - PDT

@HoTat2

I do have wireless devices. All three of my computers are WiFi on the 5GHz Band, my dad's two computers, (one Desktop and one Laptop), are also on the 5Ghz Band. My mom uses her iPad, and sometimes a spare Laptop that runs on 5GHz Band. We also, all, have iPhones on 5Ghz. My dad and I, each, have Kindles on 2.4GHz Band. All of these devices used to connect to the U-Verse Gateway, and at that time, (prior to our MESH Network), the Gateway was an NVG-599.

My three Desktop Systems all reside in the Attic/Office on the East side of the house. Dad's computers reside in the Master Bedroom, (2nd Floor), on the West side of the home. On the NVG-599, the 5GHz Band of the 599 DID have trouble reaching the Master Bedroom, and periodically and intermittently dad's computers would drop connectivity. Mom's iPad is NOT used as much as her iPhone, her iPad seemed to keep connection in the downstairs Family Room on the East side of the house. Her Laptop; however, had a 'weaker' connection to the Gateway, and DID intermittently drop connectivity.

Now; since implementing the MESH Network, these connections, (on WiFi), have 'stabilized' and are more solid, and do NOT drop connectivity any longer. More recently, AT&T has upgraded our Gateway to the BGW-210-700. Only our Ring Doorbell resides on the Gateway on the 2.4GHz Band; all other wireless devices are on the MESH Network.

All I'm saying is that had we originally had Wired capabilities throughout the home, we'd NOT have invested $450 into the Linksys MESH Network that we now have. Wired Networking is still FAR superior to ANY Wireless connection.

The AC-1300 'Child' Nodes 'Hop' wirelessly, (from various points throughout the home), to connect to the AC-2200 Router Node in the Attic/Office on the second floor, East side of the home. Access to the Attic/Office is through the upstairs Spare Bedroom, (Bedroom 3), NOT in my Schematic Diagram, previously attached to a prior Post in this Thread. AND each AC-1300 Node has Wired Ports, ("Gigabit"), to take the 'Wired' Devices that connect to each respective Node and transmit the data wirelessly back to the AC-2200. IF this is defined as a 'bridge' then, yes, that is the function of our AC-1300 'Child' Nodes. (Four, (4), of them throughout the home.) So, I'm NOT saying that the MESH WiFi hasn't had benefit for us, just that IF we'd had Cat-5 or Cat-5e in the walls, it would have been more beneficial for the TV equipment, which was/is our priority.

[EDIT:]

Except for the new BGW-210 Gateway, this entire DISH Network and MESH Setup has been running since Feb 24, 2021. (OH, and the HIC Device in the schematic was installed in August of 2021 to resolve the 'incompatibilities' between the DISH Hopper3 and U-Verse Gateways.)


TimeLord04
 

· Beware the Attack Basset
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I just went back and looked at the part with the wireless 4K and it specifies it would connect wirelessly to a Genie/Genie 2. So I guess it will work with the HR54.
I did the same but interpret it differently in that the survey offers five choices of which the respondent picks two as most important. The first (streaming capability) and last (voice remote) would be automatic for an Android/Google TV box. This suggests that they were seeking to prioritize the features of wireless, self-installation and satellite fallback where they might not all be included. It bears a remarkable resemblance to a classic "triple constraint, pick two" question.
 

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Discussion Starter · #129 ·
According to the first screen shot I posted the hardware has already been developed so I assume the hardware is capable on all the functions listed that you mention but they are trying to get an idea of which ones are most important to people. The most important ones to most users may be the only ones included in the first release of the software. Or maybe not. Companies don't always listen to users.
 

· Beware the Attack Basset
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According to the first screen shot I posted the hardware has already been developed so I assume the hardware is capable on all the functions listed that you mention but they are trying to get an idea of which ones are most important to people.
Of the five listed features, it seems like only the self-installation and satellite fallback features are optional from a practical standpoint (unless MoCA is present).
 

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9-4-2022 at 3:41 AM - PDT

@HoTat2I don't know about DirecTV's WAPs; but DISH Network's original WAPs, (they've just introduced a new model for the Wireless 4K Joey, which I do NOT have), were TERRIBLE, and introduced much interference and HIGH pixelations, usually full screen pixelations.
Were you trying to run the DISH WAPs at the same time as a mesh system or another Wi-Fi system?
 

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According to the first screen shot I posted the hardware has already been developed so I assume the hardware is capable on all the functions listed that you mention but they are trying to get an idea of which ones are most important to people. The most important ones to most users may be the only ones included in the first release of the software. Or maybe not. Companies don't always listen to users.
I like that you posted this. Just curious how you got this survey, and I haven't gotten the survey yet?
 

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9-4-2022 at 3:41 AM - PDT

@HoTat2

I don't know about DirecTV's WAPs; but DISH Network's original WAPs, (they've just introduced a new model for the Wireless 4K Joey, which I do NOT have), were TERRIBLE, and introduced much interference and HIGH pixelations, usually full screen pixelations. So, in my current MESH Setup, I've eliminated, entirely, the need for DISH WAPs for our four, (4), Wireless Joeys. BUT, yet again, if I had access to Wired Ethernet in the walls, then I could have still Wired the Wireless Joeys just like I've got currently by wiring them to each respective MESH Node, and STILL completely eliminate the need of WAPs.

[EDIT:] However; going back to the fact that your home's construction far differs from mine with you having full plaster walls, and MUCH older electrical wiring with poor shielding and HIGH 'noise' levels - I see how you would need to modify how a MESH Network functions in your home by 'back hauling' the Nodes to the Parent/Primary Router Node. In your setup, this guarantees that you have solid WiFi connection for guests' wireless devices, and your own, throughout the home. More modern homes with drywall, and better insulated power lines, reduce noise and allow WiFi signals to more easily penetrate walls and such.


TimeLord04
7:36 AM - PDT

@HoTat2

I do have wireless devices. All three of my computers are WiFi on the 5GHz Band, my dad's two computers, (one Desktop and one Laptop), are also on the 5Ghz Band. My mom uses her iPad, and sometimes a spare Laptop that runs on 5GHz Band. We also, all, have iPhones on 5Ghz. My dad and I, each, have Kindles on 2.4GHz Band. All of these devices used to connect to the U-Verse Gateway, and at that time, (prior to our MESH Network), the Gateway was an NVG-599.

My three Desktop Systems all reside in the Attic/Office on the East side of the house. Dad's computers reside in the Master Bedroom, (2nd Floor), on the West side of the home. On the NVG-599, the 5GHz Band of the 599 DID have trouble reaching the Master Bedroom, and periodically and intermittently dad's computers would drop connectivity. Mom's iPad is NOT used as much as her iPhone, her iPad seemed to keep connection in the downstairs Family Room on the East side of the house. Her Laptop; however, had a 'weaker' connection to the Gateway, and DID intermittently drop connectivity.

Now; since implementing the MESH Network, these connections, (on WiFi), have 'stabilized' and are more solid, and do NOT drop connectivity any longer. More recently, AT&T has upgraded our Gateway to the BGW-210-700. Only our Ring Doorbell resides on the Gateway on the 2.4GHz Band; all other wireless devices are on the MESH Network.

All I'm saying is that had we originally had Wired capabilities throughout the home, we'd NOT have invested $450 into the Linksys MESH Network that we now have. Wired Networking is still FAR superior to ANY Wireless connection.

The AC-1300 'Child' Nodes 'Hop' wirelessly, (from various points throughout the home), to connect to the AC-2200 Router Node in the Attic/Office on the second floor, East side of the home. Access to the Attic/Office is through the upstairs Spare Bedroom, (Bedroom 3), NOT in my Schematic Diagram, previously attached to a prior Post in this Thread. AND each AC-1300 Node has Wired Ports, ("Gigabit"), to take the 'Wired' Devices that connect to each respective Node and transmit the data wirelessly back to the AC-2200. IF this is defined as a 'bridge' then, yes, that is the function of our AC-1300 'Child' Nodes. (Four, (4), of them throughout the home.) So, I'm NOT saying that the MESH WiFi hasn't had benefit for us, just that IF we'd had Cat-5 or Cat-5e in the walls, it would have been more beneficial for the TV equipment, which was/is our priority.

[EDIT:]

Except for the new BGW-210 Gateway, this entire DISH Network and MESH Setup has been running since Feb 24, 2021. (OH, and the HIC Device in the schematic was installed in August of 2021 to resolve the 'incompatibilities' between the DISH Hopper3 and U-Verse Gateways.)


TimeLord04
Ok, but if you had ethernet throughout house then what type of system would you have chosen to distribute WiFi access over the house if Mesh systems like the Linksys you bought there would now be unnecessary?

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Discussion Starter · #134 ·
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I like that you posted this. Just curious how you got this survey, and I haven't gotten the survey yet?
I think it is kind of weird too that I got it and no one else here has said that they got the email. I got it at the email address I use for my DIRECTV account. Here is a screen grab of the email with my email address removed.

Font Screenshot Parallel Rectangle Number


If I try using the "CLICK HERE TO BEGIN" link in a different browser than I first completed the survey it still knows I have completed the survey already because of the coded URL in the link.

Rectangle Font Window Magenta Automotive exterior
 

· Beware the Attack Basset
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Running cable is running cable, it is a pain in an existing home either way.
No argument here. I would add that running Ethernet cable is a whole lot easier than running coax as it is smaller, lighter and it doesn't have significant bend radius limitations.
My original point was that new homes are being built with cat5 wiring to every room, and without coax. The opposite situation was the rule 20 years ago. So Directv having hardware that's compatible with ethernet instead of insisting on coax would make sense.
No argument here either other than CAT5/6 is becoming less of a thing in new home wiring in favor of multiple access point Wi-fi and speed advances that weren't economically feasible just a few years ago.
That doesn't stop them from continuing to support wireless.
Support involving someone else's Wi-fi is a GINORMOUS ask relative to the exclusive WVB configuration.
That's probably their preference over any wired method, but wireless isn't a solution for every case. Not supporting ethernet in 2022 is just dumb.
No argument here though I would point out that the majority of the streaming devices in use are probably connected via Wi-fi.
They already are to a limited extent - that's how people are connecting their Genie to the internet in many cases. They just have to extend that to supporting clients connected via ethernet.
Thus far, the live streaming options have been relatively limited and a DVR is typically used to buffer the streams. These clients would obviously use the networking media in a much more time sensitive way than is currently in play. This could be a problem for old school protocols used in the HR series Genies.
 

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I think it is kind of weird too that I got it and no one else here has said that they got the email. I got it at the email address I use for my DIRECTV account. Here is a screen grab of the email with my email address removed.

View attachment 32421

If I try using the "CLICK HERE TO BEGIN" link in a different browser than I first completed the survey it still knows I have completed the survey already because of the coded URL in the link.

View attachment 32422
When do you think the new Genie Mini will be available?
 

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Were you trying to run the DISH WAPs at the same time as a mesh system or another Wi-Fi system?
10:48 AM - PDT

@James Long

In our first 24 Hours of use on DISH, we had NOT yet implemented the MESH Network. The DISH Installer Tech stated that "...there are issues with DISH WAPs, which is why we don't recommend Wireless Joeys. If you have connectivity issues, we'll have to come back out and install a MESH system."

Well, into the first evening, the Master Bedroom location DID have MAJOR pixelation issues. We called the next day, they immediately came out and installed the AC-2200 Router Node and two of our AC-1300 Nodes. They moved one WAP downstairs to the Family Room to 'better stabilize connectivity to that room', AND the other WAP to the Master Bedroom. EACH WAP was connected by Ethernet, (Cat-5), to each respective AC-1300 Node, one Node in the Family Room and one Node in the Master Bedroom.

We STILL had issues with pixelations, (Full Screen Pixelations), on ALL TVs in the house. I came up with the idea of removing the WAPs ENTIRELY, purchasing TWO MORE AC-1300 Nodes, (for a total of 4 AC-1300 Nodes), and then connecting EACH Wireless Joey to EACH AC-1300 Node. With this setup, NO MORE pixelations nor connectivity issues on ANY of the four, (4), Wireless Joeys. ONLY the troublesome NIC issues of the Hopper3 remained, which after 6 Months of HELL, again I found the solution of the Hopper Internet Connector, (HIC), Device to FINALLY resolve the communication/connectivity issues of the H3 and the U-Verse Gateway.

It's been a year and a week since installing the HIC, and just about a year and a half since the MESH Network, and NOW we have 'Bulletproof' TV in the house.

[EDIT:] Since the DirecTV patrons here, (most likely), may not have ventured into the DISH area of DBSTalk, I'll state here, (and again for those whom have read my prior Posts in the DISH area), we COULD NOT make use of Wired, (COAX - RG-6), Joeys as our home has DECREPIT COAX cabling. According to the last U-Verse Tech/Installer that was out here when we were still on U-300 TV Service, "...Somewhere in your walls is at least one 90 Degree bend in your cabling. This is where your TV issues and pixelations are coming from." So, when we switched over to DISH for TV Services, I INSISTED on Wireless Joeys.


TimeLord04
 

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Ok, but if you had ethernet throughout house then what type of system would you have chosen to distribute WiFi access over the house if Mesh systems like the Linksys you bought there would now be unnecessary?

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11:19 AM - PDT

@HoTat2

We would just have remained on the WiFi of the U-Verse Gateway. For the computers could all have been Wired, except mom's Laptop that resides downstairs. However; she rarely uses the thing; instead, using her iPad or her iPhone - both of which had NO wireless connectivity issues with the U-Verse Gateway.

Likewise, my iPhone and dad's iPhone, and both of our Kindles never had connectivity issues with the U-Verse Gateway, either. So, again, had we had proper Cat-5 or Cat-5e in the walls, the MESH System would have been moot. We could just have installed a couple of Gigabit Switches at the Wired locations in the house and Wired ALL TV Equipment, (STBs and the H3 DVR), without issue. The results would have just about been the same as what we now have. In fact, IF we had had Ethernet in the walls, we'd most likely STILL be on U-Verse U-300 TV Service; as all the U-Verse STBs CAN connect via Ethernet.


TimeLord04
 
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