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Cool Member
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ok so I didn't have major issues to start with on the HR-20 but each update is making this thing worse.

1.) I go to watch the shows that were recorded today after the latest release and the audio sync is WAY off on all of them. It is like 3 seconds off. BUT the weird things is that its in the middle of recording one of the shows now and the "live" feed is perfect. Once I go back and start the beginning on the myvod the audio synch is off.

2.) TV is a Panasonic TH-50PX60U w/ Monster Cable HDMI Cable

3.) This problem never really occurred regularly before this release.

4.) It is horrible in this version.

This problem is happening on the local HD channels. I am not sure if they are MPEG2 or MPEG4 here in Folsom, CA. I also noticed the pixelated look on the FF that was not their previously.
 

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Cool Member
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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
the unit proceeded to freeze up on me about 15 mins ago. I reset the system and the recordings from earlier today are fine audio sync wise. So the reset button seems to have fixed the problem so far.

We shall see what tomorrow brings for the HR20!
 

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Legend
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203 Posts
Agreed...new update made things much worse. Is D* even checking to make sure things work? My mpeg4 is worse, standard local channels are now skipping, stopping, no audio
Fast forwarding through a recorded programs commercials and then stopping will not stop it. It stops, but jumps ahead anywhere from 40 seconds to 2 minutes. I had to hit the 7 sec rewind 16 times on one show.

This is not right D*!!!
 

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Godfather
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mjs31 said:
Agreed...new update made things much worse. Is D* even checking to make sure things work? My mpeg4 is worse, standard local channels are now skipping, stopping, no audio
Fast forwarding through a recorded programs commercials and then stopping will not stop it. It stops, but jumps ahead anywhere from 40 seconds to 2 minutes. I had to hit the 7 sec rewind 16 times on one show.

This is not right D*!!!
I have to agree, way more issues with the most recent update then before. Audio sync is off, the FF/RW freeze problem, more pixelation.
 

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Hall Of Fame
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It used to be that these were all signs of a bad hard drive. Now it is just considered buggy software....ugh

:nono2:

mjs31 said:
Agreed...new update made things much worse. Is D* even checking to make sure things work? My mpeg4 is worse, standard local channels are now skipping, stopping, no audio
Fast forwarding through a recorded programs commercials and then stopping will not stop it. It stops, but jumps ahead anywhere from 40 seconds to 2 minutes. I had to hit the 7 sec rewind 16 times on one show.

This is not right D*!!!
 

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Legend
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241 Posts
Preface: I've ordered my HR20 now that HD LiLs are coming to Buffalo by year end. Won't have it for several weeks. However, I've been through a similar experience when I was an early adopter of the R15. I currently have an HR10-250 HDTivo which is a very reliable machine (if you don't let it update to 6.3a, which I haven't), but is slow in the menus and guide, and lacks PIG/PIM. I will keep my HR10 as my primary unit until the HR20 becomes very stable and useable. To me, that means that it never misses a recording unless it can be blamed on the guide data or user error, all recordings can be played back properly and trick play always works - the basics.

That said, my suggestion to D* would be to adopt a staggered update rollout plan similar to what they do with the HR10. I would even take it a step further and suggest that they allow people to sign up to be part of the initial update rollout. I suppose that's pretty much like a beta team, but in any case, I think it could really help here. Folks like myself who don't depend on the HR20 as our main unit would be more willing to accept flawed updates like this latest one and could test it out and give this sort of feedback to D* before they roll it out to everyone and cause major headaches for those who rely on the HR20 for all their viewing. I envision D* continuing with frequent releases until we reach an acceptable level of stability, but I think it should go to the "beta" users first for a week and then to the at-large population. This would mean an update every 2 wks instead of every week, but wouldn't people rather wait an extra week for a potentially more stable update than receive and update that seems to cause more problems than it fixes? That would be my preference anyway. And I think this might help the development team to do a better job by not making them feel so rushed. Hard deadlines suck and often cause less than optimal quality work to be done.

I really feel for those of you who use the HR20 as your primary or only DVR. We all recognize that it's only TV, and yet when your DVR misses a recording or won't properly play back a recording, that's very frustrating. We expect our products to at least perform their basic functions, and that doesn't seem unreasonable to expect. I don't want to get into a debate about whether or not D* should've released the HR20 when they did. It is what it is. I'm simply trying to provide some sympathy. My solution for dealing with it is to own the new technology (satisfying my desire to play with new toys) but only as a backup/test box for now. That way, I won't miss any shows and can limit my frustration level. I know not everyone can have a setup like that, but if you can, I recommend it.
 

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Banned
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eengert said:
Preface: I've ordered my HR20 now that HD LiLs are coming to Buffalo by year end. Won't have it for several weeks. However, I've been through a similar experience when I was an early adopter of the R15. I currently have an HR10-250 HDTivo which is a very reliable machine (if you don't let it update to 6.3a, which I haven't), but is slow in the menus and guide, and lacks PIG/PIM. I will keep my HR10 as my primary unit until the HR20 becomes very stable and useable. To me, that means that it never misses a recording unless it can be blamed on the guide data or user error, all recordings can be played back properly and trick play always works - the basics.

That said, my suggestion to D* would be to adopt a staggered update rollout plan similar to what they do with the HR10. I would even take it a step further and suggest that they allow people to sign up to be part of the initial update rollout. I suppose that's pretty much like a beta team, but in any case, I think it could really help here. Folks like myself who don't depend on the HR20 as our main unit would be more willing to accept flawed updates like this latest one and could test it out and give this sort of feedback to D* before they roll it out to everyone and cause major headaches for those who rely on the HR20 for all their viewing. I envision D* continuing with frequent releases until we reach an acceptable level of stability, but I think it should go to the "beta" users first for a week and then to the at-large population. This would mean an update every 2 wks instead of every week, but wouldn't people rather wait an extra week for a potentially more stable update than receive and update that seems to cause more problems than it fixes? That would be my preference anyway. And I think this might help the development team to do a better job by not making them feel so rushed. Hard deadlines suck and often cause less than optimal quality work to be done.

I really feel for those of you who use the HR20 as your primary or only DVR. We all recognize that it's only TV, and yet when your DVR misses a recording or won't properly play back a recording, that's very frustrating. We expect our products to at least perform their basic functions, and that doesn't seem unreasonable to expect. I don't want to get into a debate about whether or not D* should've released the HR20 when they did. It is what it is. I'm simply trying to provide some sympathy. My solution for dealing with it is to own the new technology (satisfying my desire to play with new toys) but only as a backup/test box for now. That way, I won't miss any shows and can limit my frustration level. I know not everyone can have a setup like that, but if you can, I recommend it.
Well said, and cute kid.
 

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Legend
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222 Posts
eengert said:
Preface: I've ordered my HR20 now that HD LiLs are coming to Buffalo by year end. Won't have it for several weeks. However, I've been through a similar experience when I was an early adopter of the R15. I currently have an HR10-250 HDTivo which is a very reliable machine (if you don't let it update to 6.3a, which I haven't), but is slow in the menus and guide, and lacks PIG/PIM. I will keep my HR10 as my primary unit until the HR20 becomes very stable and useable. To me, that means that it never misses a recording unless it can be blamed on the guide data or user error, all recordings can be played back properly and trick play always works - the basics.

That said, my suggestion to D* would be to adopt a staggered update rollout plan similar to what they do with the HR10. I would even take it a step further and suggest that they allow people to sign up to be part of the initial update rollout. I suppose that's pretty much like a beta team, but in any case, I think it could really help here. Folks like myself who don't depend on the HR20 as our main unit would be more willing to accept flawed updates like this latest one and could test it out and give this sort of feedback to D* before they roll it out to everyone and cause major headaches for those who rely on the HR20 for all their viewing. I envision D* continuing with frequent releases until we reach an acceptable level of stability, but I think it should go to the "beta" users first for a week and then to the at-large population. This would mean an update every 2 wks instead of every week, but wouldn't people rather wait an extra week for a potentially more stable update than receive and update that seems to cause more problems than it fixes? That would be my preference anyway. And I think this might help the development team to do a better job by not making them feel so rushed. Hard deadlines suck and often cause less than optimal quality work to be done.

I really feel for those of you who use the HR20 as your primary or only DVR. We all recognize that it's only TV, and yet when your DVR misses a recording or won't properly play back a recording, that's very frustrating. We expect our products to at least perform their basic functions, and that doesn't seem unreasonable to expect. I don't want to get into a debate about whether or not D* should've released the HR20 when they did. It is what it is. I'm simply trying to provide some sympathy. My solution for dealing with it is to own the new technology (satisfying my desire to play with new toys) but only as a backup/test box for now. That way, I won't miss any shows and can limit my frustration level. I know not everyone can have a setup like that, but if you can, I recommend it.
GREAT IDEA!!! I hope they adopt it. As a former "beta" tester for the D*TV TIVO DVR's (as part of the TIVO community), I would happily volunteer for this!!!! :)
 

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DirecTV does normally have a stagard rollout (See the R15).
But right now the volume of the HR20 is not at that point... based on their stagard metrics, starting at one point and getting to the end... simply doesn't have the user base metrics.

You will eventually see a staggard rollout... and that will followed by the usually... "I didn't get it yet, got it here... why can't they roll it out at once" posts.

The two Known issuses... where just that KNOWN, found by the testing teams... but the decision was made, that the benefits out weighed the problems....
 

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Mentor
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mjs31 said:
Agreed...new update made things much worse. Is D* even checking to make sure things work? My mpeg4 is worse, standard local channels are now skipping, stopping, no audio
Fast forwarding through a recorded programs commercials and then stopping will not stop it. It stops, but jumps ahead anywhere from 40 seconds to 2 minutes. I had to hit the 7 sec rewind 16 times on one show.

This is not right D*!!!
yeah the update gave me my first real problems last night watching Lost. Same thing. Not stopping in the right spots, and jumping around.

Hope they fix that soon. Getting through a commercial ended up taking almost as long as it would have to just watch them all.
 

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Godfather
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267 Posts
I, too, am frustrated with this update. I never had any problems with the HR20 since it was installed 2 weeks ago. Now, it's just flat out annoying. PQ is terrible on HD recording and live broadcasts. The FF function sucks. I don't care about the pixelation, but the fact that it will freeze the picture and/or jump ahead 2 minutes when you press play is just stupid. I also see serious lip synch problems now too. They need to release a better software update pronto!!! My DVR is not supposed to get worse with every software update.
 

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Legend
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241 Posts
Earl Bonovich said:
You will eventually see a staggard rollout... and that will followed by the usually... "I didn't get it yet, got it here... why can't they roll it out at once" posts.
This would be alleviated if they allow a sign-up list to be part of the first group. It could contain a disclaimer.

Earl Bonovich said:
The two Known issuses... where just that KNOWN, found by the testing teams... but the decision was made, that the benefits out weighed the problems....
With all due respect, I don't think the developers should get to make that decision. As the user, I should be allowed to make the decision as to whether I want an update that has known bugs in it. Therefore, I really think they should provide some way to either decline/postpone the update on your box, or provide a rollback function. Clearly multiple people on this forum would say that the assessment of the developers that the benefits outweighed the problems was a faulty assessment in this case.

Just for comparison, consider the recent 6.3/6.3a update to the HR10. Now I realize this isn't by design from D*'s standpoint, but by unplugging my phoneline, I can decline/postpone receiving the update. Let me tell you, this was a huge benefit this time! There are many reports of the update causing very bad audio dropouts, missed recordings, lockups and reboots on a box that previously (at least for me) had not a single problem. Either D* didn't adequately test this upgrade (and this one wasn't even rushed) or they decided that speed outweighed these issues. Either way, I don't want an update that's going to break my perfectly functioning box just so that it's faster. I would be really upset if I had been forced to take this update and then had to deal with these severe problems while they work on an update to fix the update. So I really think there should be an option to upgrade or not. That seems pretty standard for any software.
 

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Banned
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Opting out of updates is a great idea, empowering the user to have control over his equipment. But I will tell you that it will never happen, for one simple reason:

Envision the scenario where either a bug or vulnerability exists in their content access control code. An exploit has been published that either allows people to remove content from the DVR, or access content they have not paid for.

The only way D* can resolve the problem is by immediately pushing out new code that patches the vulnerability, and if users had a way to opt out of this patch, it would be the end of the game for D*.

Unfortunately, this is another instance of content access paranoia taking functionality and control out of the customer's hands.
 

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eengert said:
With all due respect, I don't think the developers should get to make that decision. As the user, I should be allowed to make the decision as to whether I want an update that has known bugs in it. Therefore, I really think they should provide some way to either decline/postpone the update on your box, or provide a rollback function. Clearly multiple people on this forum would say that the assessment of the developers that the benefits outweighed the problems was a faulty assessment in this case.
I can assure you it is not the "Developers" that are makign the decision.
As you would expect, there are multiple people that review the results from the testing teams.... and decided on a go or no go.

One of the problems with the "user" selecting to do updates, is the same you see in computers... If "users" opt to not do updates, you can get to a point that an update that you want... will brake the system... as a previouls update did something to the unit, that the new update is not. (say... restructure the hard drive layout)

Now even though they do give me the release notes, I am certain they don't contain every single fix they did in the system.... Every line of code, ect.
 

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Hall Of Fame
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I am so grateful my brother, he of no patience, does not have a HR-20. By now it would have went out the highest window in his house as a test to see if it could fly, do pigs fly? or to see how high it could bounce. Did I mention no patience on his part?

Maybe they felt they needed this DVR? However If I were a new Subscriber, I'm not, I think my first RCAs had the H card or maybe the one before that? I'd be on the phone telling them to come get their piece of DooDoo and don't even think about a termination penalty since they, D* faild to deliver a working system.

Reading the messages it appears that DirecTV should have held it in the lab longer. OTOH Echostar has had the same type of issues with new hardware models. I believe the 501s when first released had firmware issues that killed the DVR. I suspect their 508/510s had no such problem as they evolutionary and use the same firmware from what I've read.

My policy is never buy the first release of anything, software or hardware. I'm guessing that after 6 months to a year it will work OK.

It seems to me they should have evolved the new unit and avoided all the pain for users, Plus how much bad word of mouth are they generating?
 

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Legend
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241 Posts
Earl Bonovich said:
I can assure you it is not the "Developers" that are makign the decision.
As you would expect, there are multiple people that review the results from the testing teams.... and decided on a go or no go.

One of the problems with the "user" selecting to do updates, is the same you see in computers... If "users" opt to not do updates, you can get to a point that an update that you want... will brake the system... as a previouls update did something to the unit, that the new update is not. (say... restructure the hard drive layout)

Now even though they do give me the release notes, I am certain they don't contain every single fix they did in the system.... Every line of code, ect.
Whether it's the developers or the president or someone in between, my opinion is that the vendor shouldn't get to force an update on the user.

I do understand your point about the downside of giving users the option to decline updates, but IMO that's the only reasonable way to handle software rollouts. I'm a developer myself, and I've been in this situation before. Here's how it works from my experience: I'm given some deadline to rollout a piece of software. The deadline approaches and I tell the business user that by the deadline I will have the software working with x features but that it still has y known bug(s) that I haven't been able to resolve yet. Do I get to tell them that they have to accept the rollout and then I'll provide an update ASAP? Of course not. They get to decide if they want the software as is with updates to come, or if they want to wait until all the issues are resolve, or even somewhere in between (ie - fix issue A and then roll it out and release a secondary update later to fix issue B). In the case of the HR20, we are the business users. If I choose to decline updates and that results in problems, I can only blame myself - that's not D*'s problem. As it is, D* bears all the blame for forcing updates that cause problems. All they have to do is give me a choice and they are no longer liable.

Just to step back for a moment and keep things in perspective...I'm glad D* is working hard on fixing the software and working on the most critical stability issues first. Well done. But given the environment that they've created by releasing software that has some major issues (even if you don't personally experience all or some of them), I think they need a different rollout process.
 

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Up The Irons!
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Damn I guess I've been one of the lucky ones, no problems since the last update.
 
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