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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've got several questions as I embark on the path of going from SDTV to HDTV and probably (unfortunately) from TiVo to DirecTV's PVR solution. Since I'm sure a lot of us share the "Dammit D*, don't take away my TiVo" story, I'll skip that part. :) I know this is long, but I wanted to try and think of all the issues I am aware of right now that I would run into with this switch. I'm looking at several here that I'm aware of:

1) Change to HDTV from old school SD stuff.
2) Change from DirecTiVo to HR20, effecting change in the way I watch TV, presumably
3) Possible change in underlying wiring/multiswitch/etc stuff (reinstall, basically)

I've been a DirecTiVo customer for quite some time now. As most people who have been on the same ride as me are finding out, if you want to go HD, there aren't a lot of options available if you're staying with DirecTV and plan on going HD. I have two Hughes "Series 2" DirecTiVo's. One is an HDVR2, and the other is the R10 model. Both work fine. I've been saying I'll go HD for a few years now. The plan was always to buy it with company Christmas bonus money, but something always seems to come up (house, kid, etc), but I think this year is the year I will finally make the leap. One advantage since I did some major research a few years ago - HOLY CRAP, have the prices gone down and the quality up. That's good. I've contemplated going back to cable and getting a "real TiVo" again, but that would be a whole other beast, I'm sure. Plus I'm kind of into NFLST. We live in Dallas, and my wife is from Pittsburgh and I'm from Philly, so as you can imagine, we're not enamored with watching a bunch of Cryboy games. So the NFLST is a lifeline for a football fan. Enough backstory...

Anyway, I currently have the older round dish with a DualLNB output going through a multiswitch. Two lines to the living room, two to the bedroom to handle both dual tuner units I mentioned above. Now I know when I go HD, I will need a new dish to handle the new channels.

---

Question 1: When I get the new tripleLNB/HD (whatever it's called) dish, can I use the existing runs of cable? Or does all that need to be redone, too?

Question 2: Without getting up in the attic and looking at the exact brand, can my old Multiswitch still work with the new dish? That might be an impossible question to answer without specics, I realize. I think (but am not sure, it's a 3x6 - I seem to recall not using all the hookups on it for some reason, but it's been a little over four years since I had all that stuff installed up there.

Question 3: I assume that just because I'd have the TripleLNB/HD dish, that my old SD receiver (HDVR2/R10) will work there, too - I don't HAVE to have a HD DVR just because I have the HD dish, correct? This is probably the dumbest of all my questions. The bedroom TV will remain SD for awhile yet, and I'll be leaving one of my old receivers in that room (undecided which at the moment).

---

Now if I want an HD DVR, I really only have one viable option, that being the HR20. I know the HR10-250 is out there, but there's the mpeg4 issue, and I'd have a hard time buying the hardware that I know is going to need to be replaced soon. Since I'm making major changes, I might as well go straight to the replacement mode, the HR20. While I realize I can technically use the HR10-250 for the time being, I really would rather make the change now. Besides, the less hardware changes I try and make, the less I'll hear about "what's wrong with what we have" from the wife. :)

---

Question 4: What's this I read about leased equipment? That's all new to me. From what I can gather, there's a "Get the HR20 for $99" deal I see, does that mean if I do that I don't have to lease? Or is there some "get it for free" deal where I have to pay (made up number) $5 a month for the "lease"?

Question 5: DirecTV's website seems to imply there's a backorder situation for these things. So even if i wanted to get one today (not ready yet), am I right in assuming that I cannot? Is DirecTV the only place to get the HR20?

---

I have a lifetime free DVR deal on my account from the old days when there were lifetime DVR deals. I got grandfathered in awhile ago, and was told that it would remain so long as my account remains active.

---

Question 6: Has anyone made this move who had one of the old grandfathered accounts? If so, how did all that go? I certainly don't want to have to pay $5.99 a month for DVR when I'm not doing so now.

---

About the move to the HR20 from a TiVo, having been used to the TiVo feature set for years is a bit of a concern. I've read the alarmist reactions on both sides of the camp, and I figure the truth is in the middle somewhere. I'll lose and gain some stuff, I'm sure. I did have a read through the TiVo to HR-20 Survival Guide thread here, and after that I have a few questions about the interface stuff.

---

Question 7: One thing I've been reading about with the HR20 is dropped recordings. Can someone clue me in what this deal is really about? As with anything else, there will be extreme examples on both sides. I can't imagine the problem is as widespread as the naysayers will have you believe it is, but I've seen enough to know it is an issue, that's what I'm trying to find out. Is this really bad, or just an overblown (but real) issue?

---

After thinking about how I use my DirecTiVo, the things that I find myself using all the time which would impact how I use it, and there doesn't seem to be much that I'd lose which would impact me. From reading the Survival Guide above, I can compensate for most of the way I do things. I never used suggestions, so I couldn't care less about that. But some stuff I am curious about..

Question 8: Can I do these things with an HR20?
a) Pad start/end times of recordings? What is conflict resolution like?
b) Come up with some acceptable replacement for 30 sec skip? What is "slip"?
c) Dual buffers. I actually end up using that a lot, I see there's a workaround (in the Survival guide), but I don't see exactly WHAT the workaround actually is.

---

There are some good things that would be added that'd like, not the least of which is more recording space. Would like CallerID, and the picture in guide looks cool, so I know there's some positives to the move, it's not just "Oh god, what am I losing in this deal?" I'm willing to make some tradeoffs, provided the "dropped recording" issue isn't as horrific as some people might want you to believe.

Obviously, I'll come up with other stuff if/when I actually do get one of these things, but for now that's all I can think of.

Thus endeth my novel. ;)

---------------------

And finally, a quote from another thread I was reading...

In the meantime, it sure would be nice if someone from D* stepped up and stated exactly what D* intends to do about adding some of these features.
That won't happen. Been a DirecTV user for ages, and they don't say crap about future stuff like that. Hasn't happened in years - DO NOT expect it to start any time soon.
 

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Question 1: When I get the new tripleLNB/HD (whatever it's called) dish, can I use the existing runs of cable? Or does all that need to be redone, too?If you have four cables from your old dish to the multiswitch location, then you're fine. You'll need a fifth cable for an OTA antenna since you can no longer combine an OTA antenna feed with one of the satellite feed cables.

Question 2: Without getting up in the attic and looking at the exact brand, can my old Multiswitch still work with the new dish? That might be an impossible question to answer without specics, I realize. I think (but am not sure, it's a 3x6 - I seem to recall not using all the hookups on it for some reason, but it's been a little over four years since I had all that stuff installed up there.Probably not. DirecTV will provide a new Zinwell WB68 multiswitch which is required for the new AT9 5-LNB dish. It has 8 outputs.

Question 3: I assume that just because I'd have the TripleLNB/HD dish, that my old SD receiver (HDVR2/R10) will work there, too - I don't HAVE to have a HD DVR just because I have the HD dish, correct? This is probably the dumbest of all my questions. The bedroom TV will remain SD for awhile yet, and I'll be leaving one of my old receivers in that room (undecided which at the moment).Yes, all of your old equipment will work just like it did before.

Question 4: What's this I read about leased equipment? That's all new to me. From what I can gather, there's a "Get the HR20 for $99" deal I see, does that mean if I do that I don't have to lease? Or is there some "get it for free" deal where I have to pay (made up number) $5 a month for the "lease"?This is DirecTV's business model now. If you're a long time customer and are upgrading to HiDef, you can get some pretty sweet deals from DirecTV. But you'll be committed to a 2-year lease agreement.

Question 5: DirecTV's website seems to imply there's a backorder situation for these things. So even if i wanted to get one today (not ready yet), am I right in assuming that I cannot? Is DirecTV the only place to get the HR20?Best Buy, Circuit City and other dealers also have them and can arrange installation for you. DirecTV's shortage should be easing now, though.

Question 6: Has anyone made this move who had one of the old grandfathered accounts? If so, how did all that go? I certainly don't want to have to pay $5.99 a month for DVR when I'm not doing so now.I think this only applies to Tivo-based DVRs. Not sure if anything is "grandfathered" to the new non-Tivo DVRs.

Question 7: One thing I've been reading about with the HR20 is dropped recordings. Can someone clue me in what this deal is really about? As with anything else, there will be extreme examples on both sides. I can't imagine the problem is as widespread as the naysayers will have you believe it is, but I've seen enough to know it is an issue, that's what I'm trying to find out. Is this really bad, or just an overblown (but real) issue?
Well, the HR20 is still a work-in-progress, and still has bugs. I've had mine for over two months and never had a dropped recording, but some folks have. The new software is certainly much improved.

Question 8: Can I do these things with an HR20?
a) Pad start/end times of recordings? What is conflict resolution like?
b) Come up with some acceptable replacement for 30 sec skip? What is "slip"?
c) Dual buffers. I actually end up using that a lot, I see there's a workaround (in the Survival guide), but I don't see exactly WHAT the workaround actually is.
a) Yes, you can pad. Conflict resolution isn't too different from the Tivo's.
b) 30-sec slip is just a slower version of the instantaneous 30-sec skip, sort of like a quick Fast Forward instead of an instananeous jump.
c) The workaround is kludgy. You can adapt to one 90-minute buffer instead of two 30-min buffers. Besides, you should mostly be watching programs from you Playlist instead of Live TV anyway :)
 

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Yo! From Philly. I am not going to try and answer all your questions, since others can do it better (and someone already has). But you obviously can see from the forum that if you move to the HR20, you are gambling to some extent. Mine was acting very goofy at first, mainly the Black Screen of Death, lock-ups. No missed or partial recordings (the main problem others are having). Still have plenty of sound/video dropouts on MPEG4, which may be the local HD broadcasters, because I don't see the same problems on the MPEG2HD channels. However, I do also have an H20, D*'s non-DVR HD receiver, and that seems to not have problems with local HD channels.

About HD locals. PQ is good, with one major caveat. In Philly, two of the network feeds (CBS and NBC) suffer from what is called the 8mm effect. The video has a strange sheen, almost like it's missing some frames, and football games look like they are on film. Both of those stations are 1080i. No problems like that with Fox or ABC (720p). Other cities have it to, but supposedly D* is going to fix that with new equipment in the future. If not, watching those channels just plain sucks. I use MPEG2 feeds for any programming on those networks.

Anyway, some small things to consider. But don't discount the missed recording issue. I haven't had it, but if I did, I'd be really annoyed. And now that D* has apparently limited caller access to retention (there is a thread about it), I hope I can still get issues resolved like I did in the past.

Good luck.
 

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Joe Siegler said:
I've got several questions as I embark on the path of going from SDTV to HDTV and probably (unfortunately) from TiVo to DirecTV's PVR solution. Since I'm sure a lot of us share the "Dammit D*, don't take away my TiVo" story, I'll skip that part. :) I know this is long, but I wanted to try and think of all the issues I am aware of right now that I would run into with this switch. I'm looking at several here that I'm aware of:

1) Change to HDTV from old school SD stuff.
2) Change from DirecTiVo to HR20, effecting change in the way I watch TV, presumably
3) Possible change in underlying wiring/multiswitch/etc stuff (reinstall, basically)

I've been a DirecTiVo customer for quite some time now. As most people who have been on the same ride as me are finding out, if you want to go HD, there aren't a lot of options available if you're staying with DirecTV and plan on going HD. I have two Hughes "Series 2" DirecTiVo's. One is an HDVR2, and the other is the R10 model. Both work fine. I've been saying I'll go HD for a few years now. The plan was always to buy it with company Christmas bonus money, but something always seems to come up (house, kid, etc), but I think this year is the year I will finally make the leap. One advantage since I did some major research a few years ago - HOLY CRAP, have the prices gone down and the quality up. That's good. I've contemplated going back to cable and getting a "real TiVo" again, but that would be a whole other beast, I'm sure. Plus I'm kind of into NFLST. We live in Dallas, and my wife is from Pittsburgh and I'm from Philly, so as you can imagine, we're not enamored with watching a bunch of Cryboy games. So the NFLST is a lifeline for a football fan. Enough backstory...

Anyway, I currently have the older round dish with a DualLNB output going through a multiswitch. Two lines to the living room, two to the bedroom to handle both dual tuner units I mentioned above. Now I know when I go HD, I will need a new dish to handle the new channels.

---

Question 1: When I get the new tripleLNB/HD (whatever it's called) dish, can I use the existing runs of cable? Or does all that need to be redone, too?

Question 2: Without getting up in the attic and looking at the exact brand, can my old Multiswitch still work with the new dish? That might be an impossible question to answer without specics, I realize. I think (but am not sure, it's a 3x6 - I seem to recall not using all the hookups on it for some reason, but it's been a little over four years since I had all that stuff installed up there.

Question 3: I assume that just because I'd have the TripleLNB/HD dish, that my old SD receiver (HDVR2/R10) will work there, too - I don't HAVE to have a HD DVR just because I have the HD dish, correct? This is probably the dumbest of all my questions. The bedroom TV will remain SD for awhile yet, and I'll be leaving one of my old receivers in that room (undecided which at the moment).

---

Now if I want an HD DVR, I really only have one viable option, that being the HR20. I know the HR10-250 is out there, but there's the mpeg4 issue, and I'd have a hard time buying the hardware that I know is going to need to be replaced soon. Since I'm making major changes, I might as well go straight to the replacement mode, the HR20. While I realize I can technically use the HR10-250 for the time being, I really would rather make the change now. Besides, the less hardware changes I try and make, the less I'll hear about "what's wrong with what we have" from the wife. :)

---

Question 4: What's this I read about leased equipment? That's all new to me. From what I can gather, there's a "Get the HR20 for $99" deal I see, does that mean if I do that I don't have to lease? Or is there some "get it for free" deal where I have to pay (made up number) $5 a month for the "lease"?

Question 5: DirecTV's website seems to imply there's a backorder situation for these things. So even if i wanted to get one today (not ready yet), am I right in assuming that I cannot? Is DirecTV the only place to get the HR20?

---

I have a lifetime free DVR deal on my account from the old days when there were lifetime DVR deals. I got grandfathered in awhile ago, and was told that it would remain so long as my account remains active.

---

Question 6: Has anyone made this move who had one of the old grandfathered accounts? If so, how did all that go? I certainly don't want to have to pay $5.99 a month for DVR when I'm not doing so now.

---

About the move to the HR20 from a TiVo, having been used to the TiVo feature set for years is a bit of a concern. I've read the alarmist reactions on both sides of the camp, and I figure the truth is in the middle somewhere. I'll lose and gain some stuff, I'm sure. I did have a read through the TiVo to HR-20 Survival Guide thread here, and after that I have a few questions about the interface stuff.

---

Question 7: One thing I've been reading about with the HR20 is dropped recordings. Can someone clue me in what this deal is really about? As with anything else, there will be extreme examples on both sides. I can't imagine the problem is as widespread as the naysayers will have you believe it is, but I've seen enough to know it is an issue, that's what I'm trying to find out. Is this really bad, or just an overblown (but real) issue?

---

After thinking about how I use my DirecTiVo, the things that I find myself using all the time which would impact how I use it, and there doesn't seem to be much that I'd lose which would impact me. From reading the Survival Guide above, I can compensate for most of the way I do things. I never used suggestions, so I couldn't care less about that. But some stuff I am curious about..

Question 8: Can I do these things with an HR20?
a) Pad start/end times of recordings? What is conflict resolution like?
b) Come up with some acceptable replacement for 30 sec skip? What is "slip"?
c) Dual buffers. I actually end up using that a lot, I see there's a workaround (in the Survival guide), but I don't see exactly WHAT the workaround actually is.

---

There are some good things that would be added that'd like, not the least of which is more recording space. Would like CallerID, and the picture in guide looks cool, so I know there's some positives to the move, it's not just "Oh god, what am I losing in this deal?" I'm willing to make some tradeoffs, provided the "dropped recording" issue isn't as horrific as some people might want you to believe.

Obviously, I'll come up with other stuff if/when I actually do get one of these things, but for now that's all I can think of.

Thus endeth my novel. ;)

---------------------

And finally, a quote from another thread I was reading...

That won't happen. Been a DirecTV user for ages, and they don't say crap about future stuff like that. Hasn't happened in years - DO NOT expect it to start any time soon.
Almost forgot. Do not get rid of your Directivos right away. We have seven lines into the house (6x8 MS) and four of them are hooked into R10s, one in each viewing location. They provide peace of mind for those days a flaky HR20 goes bonkers, if you get one of that bent.
 

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litzdog911 said:
Question 1: When I get the new tripleLNB/HD (whatever it's called) dish, can I use the existing runs of cable? Or does all that need to be redone, too?If you have four cables from your old dish to the multiswitch location, then you're fine. You'll need a fifth cable for an OTA antenna since you can no longer combine an OTA antenna feed with one of the satellite feed cables.
If you've got a Dual LNB dish right now, you would only have two cables coming off of it. If you do get the HR20, you would need the AT9 (or similar?) 5 LNB dish. This dish has four outputs. If you have four or more inputs you need to feed (which you would with two or more DVRs), you need four cables from the dish. If you can receive good OTA reception in your area, you may also want to run the fifth line as litzdog mentions.

Question 2: Probably not. DirecTV will provide a new Zinwell WB68 multiswitch which is required for the new AT9 5-LNB dish. It has 8 outputs.
I agree.

Question 3: Yes, all of your old equipment will work just like it did before.
Again, I agree

Question 4: What's this I read about leased equipment? That's all new to me. From what I can gather, there's a "Get the HR20 for $99" deal I see, does that mean if I do that I don't have to lease? Or is there some "get it for free" deal where I have to pay (made up number) $5 a month for the "lease"?This is DirecTV's business model now. If you're a long time customer and are upgrading to HiDef, you can get some pretty sweet deals from DirecTV. But you'll be committed to a 2-year lease agreement.
The lease model essentially is an up-front cost (the $99 for the deal you mention, for example), and then a monthly fee of $4.99 for each additional receiver or DVR beyond your first one. If you keep your two TiVos and add the HR20, you would be paying two fees of $4.99 a month. For "owned" units, this shows on your bill as an additional receiver fee. For "leased" units, this shows as a lease fee. Just a matter of symantics.

The big difference in the lease model is that you do not own the HR20 and if you cancel service, you need to return it to D* or pay a somewhat substantial "non-return" fee. Otherwise, it's pretty much the same as buying and activating an additional unit.

Question 6: Has anyone made this move who had one of the old grandfathered accounts? If so, how did all that go? I certainly don't want to have to pay $5.99 a month for DVR when I'm not doing so now.I think this only applies to Tivo-based DVRs. Not sure if anything is "grandfathered" to the new non-Tivo DVRs.
I also have the grandfathered "Lifetime DVR" service, and I pay no monthly DVR fee. That still holds true after I got an HR20 unit, but I still have TiVos on my account. I don't know if that would vaporize if all I had was non-TiVo units, but as it stands right now, my lifetime DVR service (zero fee) still applies.

Question 8: Can I do these things with an HR20?
a) Pad start/end times of recordings? What is conflict resolution like?
b) Come up with some acceptable replacement for 30 sec skip? What is "slip"?
c) Dual buffers. I actually end up using that a lot, I see there's a workaround (in the Survival guide), but I don't see exactly WHAT the workaround actually is.
a) Yes, you can pad. Conflict resolution isn't too different from the Tivo's.
b) 30-sec slip is just a slower version of the instantaneous 30-sec skip, sort of like a quick Fast Forward instead of an instananeous jump.
c) The workaround is kludgy. You can adapt to one 90-minute buffer instead of two 30-min buffers. Besides, you should mostly be watching programs from you Playlist instead of Live TV anyway :)
Regarding the dual buffers, the closest I could come with the HR20 is to record one program (a football game, for example) and have the live tuner tuned to a different program (a second football game?). The 90 minute buffer would apply to the live tuner, and you could view the other channel, so to speak, off the recording.

As for the dropped recordings, I have experienced a few of those. Some of the TiVos I have (see sig) are used primarily as back-up units now to hopefully avoid completely missing a program when the HR20 may fail to record (or mysteriously delete, as has also happened) a program. I would think about recording some of the same programs for which you would use the HR20 on one of your SD TiVos just in case and until the "bug" gets worked out.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
litzdog911 said:
You'll need a fifth cable for an OTA antenna since you can no longer combine an OTA antenna feed with one of the satellite feed cables.
I don't do that now - I get my locals over the dish, so I don't much care for OTA, although I will probably do OTA when the software upgrade is made available. I guess that's the cable y'all are talking about?

Probably not. DirecTV will provide a new Zinwell WB68 multiswitch which is required for the new AT9 5-LNB dish. It has 8 outputs.
So multiswitches are automatic now? When I got hooked up, they were NOT - I had provide my own.

Question 4: What's this I read about leased equipment? That's all new to me. From what I can gather, there's a "Get the HR20 for $99" deal I see, does that mean if I do that I don't have to lease? Or is there some "get it for free" deal where I have to pay (made up number) $5 a month for the "lease"?

This is DirecTV's business model now. If you're a long time customer and are upgrading to HiDef, you can get some pretty sweet deals from DirecTV. But you'll be committed to a 2-year lease agreement.
So even if I went to the store, there's no way to avoid the extra receiver fee? I already pay one of those. I have two receivers in my house, and already pay a $4.99 per month fee. Isn't this a renamed version of the same fee - or are you telling me I have to pay another $4.99 fee? I have two receivers, and will still have two receivers when this is all done, just not the same two. This stuff is highly confusing to me. What if I had just the ONE receiver - do I still have to pay that?

Best Buy, Circuit City and other dealers also have them and can arrange installation for you. DirecTV's shortage should be easing now, though.
Looked at Best Buy's site right before posting this - they were out of stock, too. this isn't a huge deal to me, as I probably won't be buying for another 5 weeks anyway, and not hooking up D*'s HD option until after the TV gets here in the first place.

Well, the HR20 is still a work-in-progress, and still has bugs. I've had mine for over two months and never had a dropped recording, but some folks have. The new software is certainly much improved.
Improved from what to what? Can you elaborate?

a) Yes, you can pad. Conflict resolution isn't too different from the Tivo's.
One thing I never liked about TiVo's conflict resolution is if you had two things set to record, and you go to add a third, you are not given a choice as to which of the two you wanted to not record. You were given a choice of ONE. If you wanted to delete the other, you had to back out, go through hoops and come back. Is this any different with the HR20?

c) The workaround is kludgy. You can adapt to one 90-minute buffer instead of two 30-min buffers. Besides, you should mostly be watching programs from you Playlist instead of Live TV anyway :)
Generally yes - but there are a few things I still watch live if I happen to be up for them. Local nightly news, football/hockey/baseball games if I'm around when they're on, and I've run out of recorded buffer.

tstarn said:
Yo! From Philly. About HD locals. PQ is good, with one major caveat. In Philly, two of the network feeds (CBS and NBC) suffer from what is called the 8mm effect. The video has a strange sheen, almost like it's missing some frames, and football games look like they are on film. Both of those stations are 1080i. No problems like that with Fox or ABC (720p). Other cities have it to, but supposedly D* is going to fix that with new equipment in the future. If not, watching those channels just plain sucks. I use MPEG2 feeds for any programming on those networks.
So anyone who broadcasts in 1080i looks odd like that? Is anyone else seeing that, or is just just these ones in Philly?

And speaking of Philly, I'm a Philly boy living in Dallas. No, I still can't stand the Cowboys. Since I can't post URL's yet (don't have 5 posts), I'll have to do this the old way. www dot americasteamsucks dot com. :)

tstarn said:
Almost forgot. Do not get rid of your Directivos right away. We have seven lines into the house (6x8 MS) and four of them are hooked into R10s, one in each viewing location. They provide peace of mind for those days a flaky HR20 goes bonkers, if you get one of that bent.
Don't intend to. In fact, I still have one of my old Philips DSR6000's in the closet now. And my original standalone TiVo survived quite awhile after being deactivated until I sold it on ebay (lifetime agreement on box makes for a good resale :) ) If I make this move, I will likely deactivate the HDVR2, and bump the R10 to the bedroom, for no other reason than it has more recording capacity (70hrs vs 35).

JLucPicard said:
If you've got a Dual LNB dish right now, you would only have two cables coming off of it. If you do get the HR20, you would need the AT9 (or similar?) 5 LNB dish. This dish has four outputs. If you have four or more inputs you need to feed (which you would with two or more DVRs), you need four cables from the dish. If you can receive good OTA reception in your area, you may also want to run the fifth line as litzdog mentions.
Well, I plan on doing HD in the living room, and SD in the bedroom. Bedroom will only need to have SD stuff, so the existing two cables going there will probably be fine. The living room will be a different issue - probably need three there.

The lease model essentially is an up-front cost (the $99 for the deal you mention, for example), and then a monthly fee of $4.99 for each additional receiver or DVR beyond your first one. If you keep your two TiVos and add the HR20, you would be paying two fees of $4.99 a month. For "owned" units, this shows on your bill as an additional receiver fee. For "leased" units, this shows as a lease fee. Just a matter of symantics.
So I was right above? Just a renamed "extra receiver" fee? When this is all over, it will be HR20 & H10. That's it. I already pay $4.99 a month for the second one.

I also have the grandfathered "Lifetime DVR" service, and I pay no monthly DVR fee. That still holds true after I got an HR20 unit, but I still have TiVos on my account. I don't know if that would vaporize if all I had was non-TiVo units, but as it stands right now, my lifetime DVR service (zero fee) still applies.
Good to hear that. Thanks for the confirmation.

Regarding the dual buffers, the closest I could come with the HR20 is to record one program (a football game, for example) and have the live tuner tuned to a different program (a second football game?). The 90 minute buffer would apply to the live tuner, and you could view the other channel, so to speak, off the recording.
Yeah, from what I can gather after reading more and thinking about it, that appears to be my only way out. As I said further up, I don't use that all the time. I do know my wife likes to watch whatever is on QVC at the time, so that gets live watched a bunch. Who the heck records QVC anyway? :)

Thanks to everyone for their input, and helping out a newbie. Gotten some decent info.
 

· Cutting Edge: ECHELON '08
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Many of the questions that you are asking are included in the HR20 Installation Tips and the HR20 Tips & Tricks. The links are below.

Here are some of the instalation tips that have helped others.
+ Have D* run 4 new RG6 cables for you. Try the old and new cables to see which gives better signal strength. Your old cables may have oxidation, less shielding, moisture, kinks, tight bends, a floating ground, or be rated for lower frequency. You may have a crack in the cable skin allowing raw naked electrons to spill out on the floor. You can end up with an Ohmic connection that may not have been much of a problem at lower frequencies but will be with the HR20.

+ D* will replace your old switch for free. Let them. An Attic may be a hot or cold place for a switch.

+ Use component instead of HDMI. No one has Component problems that HDMI sovled. Many have HDMI problems that conponent helped.

+ Turn Native Off. This has solved many problems.

+ Make sure D* alligns the AT9 dish using a meter.

+ Use a good Uninterruptable Power Supply (UPS: 500+ Joules, 500+ V-A). The HR20 seems to be fussy about power dips and spikes. It doesn't have a loud manly power supply. The power in your house dips and sags all day. You may only see the sag with a digial scope. But it is not the sag that gets you. It is the following spike. You may not know it because it waits until you leave. Power is sneaky like that.

See the tips links below for a lot more.

- Craig
 
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