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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I looked around and have not found out about this subject. I recently hooked up my HR-21 100 to the internet and started downloading some programs. Right off I noticed that there was no CC on the programs. I need CC because I am hard of hearing. I immediately went to TCM to download some movies that I know are CC. The beginning of the movies even say that they are CC.

I downloaded Thunder Road, and Anatomy of a Murder. both showed no CC thruout the movie. I even tried a RBR to see if something was amiss.

Is VOD stripping off the CC data?
 

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There would be no reason to strip CC, as having it can only be an advantage. But programs don't automatically have it unless designed for broadcast or sat/cable distribution. CC is mandated by the FCC on broadcasts, and probably also on cable and sat. VOD is not a broadcast. That means they don't have to include it, and probably don't go to the bother of adding it if it isn't there already. The hearing-impaired have a very strong lobby, but that power means nothing if you don't have a government agency to strong-arm, and VOD is a non-regulated path for content.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
TomCat said:
There would be no reason to strip CC, as having it can only be an advantage. But programs don't automatically have it unless designed for broadcast or sat/cable distribution. CC is mandated by the FCC on broadcasts, and probably also on cable and sat. VOD is not a broadcast. That means they don't have to include it, and probably don't go to the bother of adding it if it isn't there already. The hearing-impaired have a very strong lobby, but that power means nothing if you don't have a government agency to strong-arm, and VOD is a non-regulated path for content.
As I said both of these movies are CC. The VOD info says they are CC, and the movie itself says that it is CC. I have sent e-mail to Direct TV about this problem but have not gotten a reply. As for now, there is no CC on any content either by design or bug.
 

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mscog said:
As I said both of these movies are CC...
What you actually said was that you downloaded movies that "you know" include CC. How might you know that? Movies are not produced with CC, as there is no reason for it in a theatre. CC can be added to a copy that will be pressed as a DVD or made available for broadcast, but that does not mean that whatever copy makes it to VOD comes from that source, so there would be no proof that they include CC simply because certain other versions do contain it. WHile these movies might contain it, I would not expect everything on VOD to comply with regulations that VOD does not need to comply with.

A better test would be to see if there is a "CC" logo on the VOD copy of the movie itself. If so, that implies a captioned copy, and it then indeed becomes an issue for DTV to address. Otherwise, you may just be out of luck. I would complain to them anyway, as they may not even realize there is a problem and they probably do want to provide content that does have CC, just for folks like yourself.

There is another issue, which could be that these movies don't have the correct "flavor" of captioning. "608" captioning is analog, and if a movie is captioned in that way, you may need to use the analog decoder in your TV (which might even just fix your problem). ATSC uses "708" digital captioning, and I believe DVB sat has adopted that as well. 1/10th of the data stream is reserved for carrying the original analog captioning ("608" captions in a form that can be decoded by the "708" decoder), but that does not mean that it has been incorporated in to the "708", even if the "708" is truly there. Or it may be a different flavor of "608" (there are four, service 1 being the most common). Again, since VOD does not have to comply, there may be incompatible captioning even if there is captioning or a CC logo. Hopefully that is rare, or will eventually fall in line.

Many of us are not hearing-impaired, yet we still use CC on occasion. Certain actors (the kid who played "Seth" on "The OC" comes to mind) don't project like stage actors do, and are just mushmouths (although I enjoy his work other than that). English accents seem to trip me up, listening to dialog in "Torchwood" is sometimes an exercise in futility (even though they are supposedly Welsh).

This is why I consider the one-button (well, 3 button-presses, actually) CC on the HR2x to be a huge advantage over the way the HR10 accesses it (which means suspending the playback and pressing up to 20 buttons). If I miss a key word, I just skip back and use that feature.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
TomCat said:
What you actually said was that you downloaded movies that "you know" include CC. How might you know that? Movies are not produced with CC, as there is no reason for it in a theatre. CC can be added to a copy that will be pressed as a DVD or made available for broadcast, but that does not mean that whatever copy makes it to VOD comes from that source, so there would be no proof that they include CC simply because certain other versions do contain it. WHile these movies might contain it, I would not expect everything on VOD to comply with regulations that VOD does not need to comply with.

A better test would be to see if there is a "CC" logo on the VOD copy of the movie itself. If so, that implies a captioned copy, and it then indeed becomes an issue for DTV to address. Otherwise, you may just be out of luck. I would complain to them anyway, as they may not even realize there is a problem and they probably do want to provide content that does have CC, just for folks like yourself.

There is another issue, which could be that these movies don't have the correct "flavor" of captioning. "608" captioning is analog, and if a movie is captioned in that way, you may need to use the analog decoder in your TV (which might even just fix your problem). ATSC uses "708" digital captioning, and I believe DVB sat has adopted that as well. 1/10th of the data stream is reserved for carrying the original analog captioning ("608" captions in a form that can be decoded by the "708" decoder), but that does not mean that it has been incorporated in to the "708", even if the "708" is truly there. Or it may be a different flavor of "608" (there are four, service 1 being the most common). Again, since VOD does not have to comply, there may be incompatible captioning even if there is captioning or a CC logo. Hopefully that is rare, or will eventually fall in line.

Many of us are not hearing-impaired, yet we still use CC on occasion. Certain actors (the kid who played "Seth" on "The OC" comes to mind) don't project like stage actors do, and are just mushmouths (although I enjoy his work other than that). English accents seem to trip me up, listening to dialog in "Torchwood" is sometimes an exercise in futility (even though they are supposedly Welsh).

This is why I consider the one-button (well, 3 button-presses, actually) CC on the HR2x to be a huge advantage over the way the HR10 accesses it (which means suspending the playback and pressing up to 20 buttons). If I miss a key word, I just skip back and use that feature.
Hey Tom,
As I said I am Hearing impaired and I have a lot of experience with CC, but allow me to explain what I am seeing in more detail.

Lets take the movie "Please don't eat the daisies" from turner Classic movies channel.

1)Turner classic movies owns a lot of the old film libraries, so it has taken the liberty to modify many of them (not all yet) i.e. to add CC. When a turner modified film starts playing it tells you in a screen at the beginning of the movie that it has been CC.

2) This movie recently played on TCM and while watching it, it showed CC. I also recorded it and the CC shows up. ( on a Plasma with HDMI)

3) I go to VOD and browse by channel to TCM and select all movies and find "Please don't eat the daisies" If I highlight it and click select, more info about the movie shows up, at the end of this info is VOD CC. Which tells me it is indeed CC.
If I download this movie and start to play it the Turner screen shows up that it has been CC. But their are no captions, so somehow the CC info is being stripped off either during download or before.
 
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