No guide data for Fox 35 Orlando OTA

4841 Views 76 Replies 13 Participants Last post by sthor, Mar 23, 2007

sthor

Discussion Starter · Dec 30, 2006

4

While programming the bowl games into my 622 yesterday I realized I am not getting guide data for OTA WOFL 35-01 Fox in Orlando Florida. This shows in my guide as 35-01. I subscribe to locals from Dish. Dish WOFL 35 Fox shows as 35-00 in my Dish Guide and I do receive programming data for 35-00. (See attached screenshots of guide)

I receive program data OK for the OTA versions the local ABC,CBS & NBC affiliates WESH 2, WKMG 6 and WFTV 9 as well as most of the PBS and independents.

Channel 35-01 OTA has a signal strength of 93% and a beautiful HD picture; just no guide data.

I called Dish Tech Support last night and spent about an hour with them. They elevated it to a 2nd tier tech who could not figure it out. She said she would notify engineering and maybe they could fix it. They did not offer to let me know if they find the answer.

I called engineering at WOFL Channel 35 this afternoon. They were interested and listened carefully and said thay would call me back.

This is a major problem for me with Dish if it cannot be resolved. Since Dish does not offer HD locals in the Orlando market I need WOFL 35-01 OTA to get Fox HD for sports programming, in particular NASCAR.

I can manually set timers (ala VCR programming) for 35-01 but it is a major PITA. I have also read here at DBS Talk of problems with corrupt recordings when there was no guide data on OTA's. That would be a deal killer for the 622 if true.

Is anybody else experiencing this?

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1 - 20 of 77 Posts

saltrek

· #2 · Dec 30, 2006

Yes - it's been like this for some time - over a year, i would say. Don't know what the problem is. I hope your efforts yields some results.

sthor

Discussion Starter · #3 · Dec 31, 2006

saltrek said:
Yes - it's been like this for some time - over a year, i would say. Don't know what the problem is. I hope your efforts yields some results.

Did you complain to Dish or WOFL 35 at the time? Did they have any response?

Hall

· #4 · Dec 31, 2006

There's no point complaining to WOFL, is there ?? The 622 doesn't read PSIP data. That guide data is "filled in" by Dish Network, not WOFL.

sthor

Discussion Starter · #5 · Dec 31, 2006

Hall said:
There's no point complaining to WOFL, is there ?? The 622 doesn't read PSIP data. That guide data is "filled in" by Dish Network, not WOFL.

Neither Dish nor WOFL seemed to understand the problem. Both said they would check it. Perhaos there is some linkage that must occur?

Hall

· #6 · Dec 31, 2006

The people at WOFL, if they're unfamiliar with the 622, probably assume it reads the PSIP data that they send with the broadcast. I'm guessing they checked that their setup is up and running, maybe even rebooted it, and are wondering why no one else has complained, not to mention that their in-house digital receiver has the guide data filled in.

tammyandlee

· #7 · Dec 31, 2006

It's my biggest issue with the 622. When the price increases hit I am going to cancel locals and just do manual timers. No point in paying 5.99 for incomplete guide data.

sthor

Discussion Starter · #8 · Dec 31, 2006

Hall said:
The people at WOFL, if they're unfamiliar with the 622, probably assume it reads the PSIP data that they send with the broadcast. I'm guessing they checked that their setup is up and running, maybe even rebooted it, and are wondering why no one else has complained, not to mention that their in-house digital receiver has the guide data filled in.

Do you think the problem is at Dish then? I am new to Dish although I had a DirecTivo for 6 years until switching to the 622 earlier this month.

What is Dish not doing that they need to do so I will get the guide data for OTA WOFL 35-01 ?

Thanks for your patience!

tammyandlee

· #9 · Dec 31, 2006

Support PSIP or get there guide info from the same people as Tivo Zaptoit.com

sthor

Discussion Starter · #10 · Jan 1, 2007

tammyandlee said:
Support PSIP or get there guide info from the same people as Tivo Zaptoit.com

That change sounds larger in scope than what appears to be needed. Probably unlikely.

I don't mind paying for the locals, I just want the guide data for 35-01 WOFL OTA.

Ron Barry

· #11 · Jan 1, 2007

And supporting PSIP EPG is not the answer. Do a search and there are some discussions on that for sure...

I would email Dish and let them know.... Tough to get all things different configurations correct....

Hall

· #12 · Jan 1, 2007

sthor said:
Do you think the problem is at Dish then?

Yes

sthor said:
What is Dish not doing that they need to do so I will get the guide data for OTA WOFL 35-01 ?

The speculation is that Dish matches up the received OTA channels and then downloads guide data for those channels based on the station ID or call letters. They use the same source for guide data for the OTA channels as they do for the satellite-delivered channels.

You need to get AS MANY PEOPLE AS POSSIBLE to report this particular problem to Dish. You need to get the TV station's people to do the same. They likely have a different avenue to contact Dish's engineering group, of course.

sthor

Discussion Starter · #13 · Jan 1, 2007

Hall said:
Yes
The speculation is that Dish matches up the received OTA channels and then downloads guide data for those channels based on the station ID or call letters. They use the same source for guide data for the OTA channels as they do for the satellite-delivered channels.

You need to get AS MANY PEOPLE AS POSSIBLE to report this particular problem to Dish. You need to get the TV station's people to do the same. They likely have a different avenue to contact Dish's engineering group, of course.

Thanks,

I received an email from Dish Tech support this morning but I think they misunderstood the problem. In reply I restated the problem clearly and attached my screenshots with notations showing the problem.

I will also followup with WOFL 35 tomorrow. The tech I spoke to in their engineering dept Saturday afternoon seemed interested in resolving the problem. It would be in WOFL's interest to make it as easy to view their channel as possible for as many viewers as possible.

virgilw

· #14 · Jan 3, 2007

sthor said:
Thanks,

I received an email from Dish Tech support this morning but I think they misunderstood the problem. In reply I restated the problem clearly and attached my screenshots with notations showing the problem.

I have a similar problem and have begun a discussion with tech support at Dish. In my case, being the the Raleigh NC area, channels 005-01 and 050-01 lose their guide data. However, they sometimes have it. For instance, right after a reboot or a check switch they will have guide data. But at some point in the next day or so they will revert to "Digital Service". When I notice this, if I do a reboot, the guide data will restore. On another forum, another person reports that a reboot or check switch does not restore his guide data.

Note that this problem only exists for these two OTA channels. The other OTA channels are fine. Also note that Dish provides HD versions of the local stations in this area, with the exception of channel 5 and 50... So the only HD option for channels 5 and 50 are via OTA (which constantly reverts to just "Digital Service").

The first reply I got from Dish began as:

"Thank you for your e-mail. Are you referring to the OTA broadcast of these channels and the resulting PSIP data from them, or the DISH broadcast and the EPG information? Either way, please provide me with some more information:"

Why they are asking about PSIP, I don't know..... Not a good start.

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sthor

Discussion Starter · #15 · Jan 3, 2007

virgilw said:
I have a similar problem and have begun a discussion with tech support at Dish. In my case, being the the Raleigh NC area, channels 005-01 and 050-01 lose their guide data. However, they sometimes have it. For instance, right after a reboot or a check switch they will have guide data. But at some point in the next day or so they will revert to "Digital Service". When I notice this, if I do a reboot, the guide data will restore. On another forum, another person reports that a reboot or check switch does not restore his guide data.

Note that this problem only exists for these two OTA channels. The other OTA channels are fine. Also note that Dish provides HD versions of the local stations in this area, with the exception of channel 5 and 50... So the only HD option for channels 5 and 50 are via OTA (which constantly reverts to just "Digital Service").

The first reply I got from Dish began as:

"Thank you for your e-mail. Are you referring to the OTA broadcast of these channels and the resulting PSIP data from them, or the DISH broadcast and the EPG information? Either way, please provide me with some more information:"

Why they are asking about PSIP, I don't know..... Not a good start.

This is what Dish Support sent me:

"Thank you for your e-mail. The guide information is received from your local station and transmitted to you. The digital signal can be broken up into smaller sections, technically called multi-casting. This is where the suffix on the high definition channels comes from. Up to four channels can be broadcast on channel 35. these will be named 35-01, 35-02, 35-03 and 35-04. When combined into one high definition signal, these will display as 35-00. We carry the signal for only one channel of these four channels, so when the broadcast is broken into multicast, we carry the signal and guide information from what would be channel 35-00."

I do not see how that is related to the problem I submitted. I asked again but have not heard back yet.

Ron Barry

· #16 · Jan 4, 2007

I think they are confused.... Because the problem you are pointing out looks like it has nothing to do with sub-channels. Not sure where they would get sub-channels as the issue? Also, if Dish has the info to feed it will map more than just one sub-channel as your picture clearly show.

Is there anything unique about your area in regards to FOX? Example: is there two FOX affiliates in your area or something like that?

From past experience with these type of issues.

1) Something in the PSIP stream is incorrect and is confusing the 622 when it is trying to do the mapping.
2) There is a issue with the Dish Map tables that results in incorrect mapping.

sthor

Discussion Starter · #17 · Jan 4, 2007

Ron Barry said:
I think they are confused.... Because the problem you are pointing out looks like it has nothing to do with sub-channels. Not sure where they would get sub-channels as the issue? Also, if Dish has the info to feed it will map more than just one sub-channel as your picture clearly show.

Is there anything unique about your area in regards to FOX? Example: is there two FOX affiliates in your area or something like that?

From past experience with these type of issues.

1) Something in the PSIP stream is incorrect and is confusing the 622 when it is trying to do the mapping.
2) There is a issue with the Dish Map tables that results in incorrect mapping.

Fox affiliates in Florida:
Cape Coral (Fort Myers) - WFTX 36
Jacksonville - WAWS 30
Miami - WSVN 7
Ocala (Gainesville) - WOGX 51
Orlando - WOFL 35
Panama City - WPGX 28
Tampa - WTVT 13
West Palm Beach - WFLX-TV 29

If you extended a line 35 miles NW from my house through the WOFL 35 antenna location at Bithlo another 100 miles NW it would end up in the vicinity of Gainesville. That would be the next closest Fox affiliate. Do you think that could be related?

Thanks for the help!

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sthor

Discussion Starter · #18 · Jan 4, 2007

This is the reply I got from Dish in response to my request for clarification of their first answer. It is hard to believe that Dish really intends that the only way you will get OTA guide data is by it "leaking into your receiver"

It is really bad here because even though I subscribe to Dish locals they are only SD from Dish in the Orlando market. The only way I can get HD locals here is through the OTA antenna connected to my 622.

Dish response below:

"Thank you for your e-mail. Most off air channels do provide a form of guide information in their transmission. It may be possible that some of this information is "leaking" into your receiver from the channels 02-01, 06-01 and 09-01from the over the air multicast. It is not designed to do so. Most over the air multicast do include programming data that is decodable by some high definition tuners as it is transmitted over the air, but it is in a different format than the guide information which Dish Network uses. These formats are not supposed to be compatible.

We consider that the other local channels in your area being able to provide the information to your guide which does not originate from Dish Network to be a fortunate bonus. The receiver is not supposed to be able to do this.

Dish Network does not transmit multicast. When the local channels are not transmitting in high definition and have sufficient bandwith to transmit more than one set of programming, the signal that is relayed to dish is one channel, one set of programming. The networks indicate to us what they plan to broadcast on this one channel, and that becomes the guide information we send to your receiver. We do not send information for more than one set of programming per network to your receiver. We also make no editorial changes to the information.

The information for channels 02-01, 06-01 and 09-01 is not transmitted from Dish Network to your receiver. I do not know what is different about the signal 35-01 that is not also "leaking" into your receiver. It may be that 35-01 does not carry PSIP data.

We hope we have properly addressed your concerns. If you have further questions you can respond to this e-mail or access our online technical support at the following link: "

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saltrek

· #19 · Jan 4, 2007

What a bunch of hogwash. I guess you should call a plumber to stop the "leaking".

Hall

· #20 · Jan 5, 2007

That support rep needs to let engineering know that the 622 has holes in it....

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