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Here on the Northern Oregon Coast, we just got two new OTA channels via a translator, 12.1 KPTV FOX and 49.1 KPDX. MYTV. The 211k receiver scanned them in fine, but no guide, just digital service. Hopefully someone from Dish will see this and the program info can be added. Also KGW's 8.3 in Estrella and again just digital service is listed. These are all Portland Oregon stations. Thank you.
 

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DISH apparently doesn't carry the guide info for 8.3 as I don't have it here in Salem either.

Maybe someone else can fill in the blanks on whether or not they deal with translators.
 

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I see that Zap2It (an production of Tribune Media Services) includes guide information for 8.3 so there's a good chance that DISH could carry the information if enough subscribers had a real need for it. Filling in the blanks in guide data is costly because each entry goes out to at least half the nation so you have to be careful what you ask for.
 

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harsh said:
I see that Zap2It (an production of Tribune Media Services) includes guide information for 8.3 so there's a good chance that DISH could carry the information if enough subscribers had a real need for it. Filling in the blanks in guide data is costly because each entry goes out to at least half the nation so you have to be careful what you ask for.
Is guide data really that large? Compared to what it takes to deliver one 24/7 SD channel, I'd think that any channel's guide data would be smaller than a rounding error.

Here in Denver, any digital sub-channel that existed before a certain date (maybe three years ago?) has good data, but any newer ones have nothing. The main reason I care is that channels with data are available on Dish Anywhere, but guide-less channels aren't. So from my hotel room in Las Vegas, I could access my Denver rooftop OTA antenna to watch Denver's version of V-Me but not Antenna TV.
 

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FTA Michael said:
Is guide data really that large? Compared to what it takes to deliver one 24/7 SD channel, I'd think that any channel's guide data would be smaller than a rounding error.
Guide data compressed for any given channel/sub-channel is probably not that large... but the way Dish delivers it, it goes out to everyone who can see the SAT... so imagine your market * the number of markets on that particular arc (east or west) and the data adds up quickly.

Also... it isn't just the amount of data and bandwidth for the uplink... but the receivers have to be able to parse that data and find the relevant portion to your local market. There were some issues in the past with receivers choking on parsing large amounts of data... so there are several issues in play where you'd like to keep the data down.

I have wondered, though, once they moved the bulk of the LiLs to spotbeams... why they couldn't similarly move the LiL EPG data to those same spotbeams... since you can't get the LiL outside of that spotbeam anyway.
 

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Stewart Vernon said:
I have wondered, though, once they moved the bulk of the LiLs to spotbeams... why they couldn't similarly move the LiL EPG data to those same spotbeams... since you can't get the LiL outside of that spotbeam anyway.
Processing data from multiple sources is its own nightmare.

The first problem is communicating when the client needs to be looking at a particular source.

Changing the guide system would necessarily involve across the board software updates and that would surely upset a number of users of "obsolete" receivers.
 

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FTA Michael said:
Is guide data really that large? Compared to what it takes to deliver one 24/7 SD channel, I'd think that any channel's guide data would be smaller than a rounding error.
If you commit to delivering every nickel and dime subchannel, its not a small number. DISH already has channel numbers in the 14000 range. Adding a few hundred isn't a large percentage change, but it may well swamp the RAM capacity of some of the lesser receivers.

It is rumored that DIRECTV may be facing such a problem as we speak (and it is even more important since their OTA tuner lives and dies on guide data availability). As it is, it takes more than a day to fully populate the 14 day guide on their DVRs.
 

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harsh said:
Processing data from multiple sources is its own nightmare.

The first problem is communicating when the client needs to be looking at a particular source.

Changing the guide system would necessarily involve across the board software updates and that would surely upset a number of users of "obsolete" receivers.
I was thinking about it, and it isn't necessarily easy... but aren't receivers already doing this in order to get the LiLs from a spotbeam? I mean... your receiver has to know what DMA it is in and what spotbeam/transponders to tune to for its LiLs... I know the EPG doesn't work that way... but it seems like they could repurpose some of the "locator code" from elsewhere and plug the data into the EPG.

As it is, your receiver has to look at all the data and know to ignore all but its intended LiL info... seems like one method is about as difficult to implement as the other... but the advantage of my thought would be lessening the data impact to each receiver in the field.
 

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Stewart Vernon said:
I was thinking about it, and it isn't necessarily easy... but aren't receivers already doing this in order to get the LiLs from a spotbeam?
Your's is the first mention I've seen of guide data being delivered via spotbeam.
 

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harsh said:
Your's is the first mention I've seen of guide data being delivered via spotbeam.
I just wonder if they have thought about it, and if there is a reason they haven't done it. They used to have a lot of LiLs on CONUS, just like all the other channels... so I suspect the EPG data delivery mechanism just developed in a straightforward way... but whenever they began moving all the LiLs to spotbeams... it seems like the thought would have come up to put the EPG data that goes with the DMA on those same spotbeams. Seems like it would solve some problems that have come up with the ever-increasing data stream.

Not a huge deal really... just something I thought about.
 
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