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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I know this subject has been discussed here in the past, but I decided today to try again to see if Dish could add programming for Laff, Cozi, and the Comet. Laff is now carried on 73, so why do we not get the guide info on 12.3? FETV 82 carried COZI, so why do we not get the guide for Cozi on 12.2 (Portland OR). Then The Comet 2.3 we also do not get the guide for. It would be nice to have all three, but in the case on 12.2 & 12.3, the channels are already on Dish. I called the two TV stations to see if they could put in the request on their end too. It is interesting how Dish decides which OTA channels to offer a guide. Decades that we get on 6.3 we get the guide on Dish for that one.
Here is the rundown on what we get OTA with or w/o guide info.
Portland OR
2.1 KATU ABC Guide info
2.2 METV Guide info
2.3 Comet No guide info
6.1 KOIN CBS Guide info
6.2 Get TV Guide info
6.3 Decades Guide info
8.1 KGW NBC Guide info
8.2 Justice TV Guide info
8.3 Estrella No Guide info
10.1 KOPB PBS Guide info
10.2 OPB+ Guide info
10.3 NPR Guide info
12.1 KPTV Fox Guide info
12.2 COZI No guide info
12.3 Laff No guide info

I know representatives from Dish often read these postings, so I thought I might as well cover all bases.
 

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There is the OTa discussion forum. But, DISH rarely adds guide information. I can say there is no guide information for the channels you mention Though, fro some reason we get teh guid
einfor fro MeTV, PBS sub channels, the Ion channels.

So, I use this:

http://titantv.com/default.aspx/

Just enter the Bay Area zip code you live in and you will get all the listings for channels in your area. Not perfect, but it is better than nothing.
 

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DISH would need to add an EPG channel for each local market carrying Laff or Cozi or Comet. They cannot mirror one guide to the many various local subcarriers.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Dish would need to add an EPG channel for each local market carrying Laff, Cozi, or Comet. They cannot mirror one guide to the many various local subchannels.

Well, they do for other channels like Justice, Metv, as well as Decades. Also the local PBS sub channels. I would think adding the EPG for popular channels like Comet, Cozi, & Laff would be of interest. Especially since Laff is already used on the Dish EPG.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thanks for the Titan link. Yes, I do use that, but it is a pain to have to manually set up a manual timer. Having the EPG there, it is easy to click on a program to DVR it too.
 

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Metv is in our local market why some get it in there area others don't, like the Bluefield and Beckley area, This is in West Virginia market, and we live in a very Mountains train area, and you can't pick it up with a outside antenna of any kind. I guess it is who you are or where you live at
 

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mwdxer said:
Well, they do for other channels like Justice, Metv, as well as Decades. Also the local PBS sub channels. I would think adding the EPG for popular channels like Comet, Cozi, & Laff would be of interest. Especially since Laff is already used on the Dish EPG.
DISH has done it for 1049 channels that they do not carry via satellite. Every market has some sub-channels that do not have EPG. Every OTA channel guide takes up space and slows down the guide download from the satellite. There are currently 5723 channels in the EPG. I do not know how many guide entries would be considered a maximum. But the guide download is already several minutes long and covering every sub-channel in every market would add additional time. (Not to mention the back end storage and processing of all the additional sub-channels.)

And if you get all your sub-channel EPGs, then other markets should get all of their sub-channel EPGs. According to RabbitEars.info, there are 9356 OTA sub channels.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Adding any new channels to the EPG can slow down the guide, but then put in a faster processor into the receivers. I remember my old 2700 had a horrible download time after Dish added many new channels, but with newer receivers the storage space and processing speed increased. There are always ways to solve issues.I don't think we need all OTA channels with EPG's, but the more popular ones it would be nice, especially the ones that run classic movies & TV shows. I love having a guide for Decades, Get TV, and MeTV. Cozi, Laff, and Comet are three others.
 

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I would imagine that It's not so much the processor that is the bottleneck, it's the available satellite bandwidth. With an available Internet connection, I suppose the receiver could be instructed to test the Internet connection to see if it is faster than delivery from satellite. But, seeing as how VOD downloads already can't saturate my Internet connection there might not be all that much or any improvement going that route.

Here, DISH already includes the data in the EPG download for The CW, but for whatever reason doesn't mirror that data in the EPG for the OTA equivalent, as DISH does with all the other main OTA channels. The CW is also the only local channel that DISH does not provide in HD. DISH also showed The CW with a Univision logo in the EPG (the reverse is also true) for well over a year despite repeated attempts to have them correct that. Maybe DISH just doesn't care all that much for The CW. :)
 

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mwdxer said:
I did get Dish to add the subs for our PBS channel. So they will add EPG info for requests at times.
Maybe DISH might be more inclined to do that sort of thing for markets that are in the top 100 or because it's PBS. I wonder if top markets like New York or Los Angeles have complete listings?

In addition to not having The CW mirrored in the EPG for OTA, we do not receive the PBS sub-channels, nor do we get listings for Grit (Fox) and METV (MYTV).
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I checked once and there were always some EPG's missing from all large markets. Portland is #24 I think, Seattle is #13. So both in the NW are in the top 100 easily. Eugene & Spokane are smaller markets though. I don't know Dish would bother to add an EPG for misc channels like Shopping ones. That would be a waste. We get the Spanish channel Estrella on 8.3, yet there is not an EPG that that one, but knowing little Spanish, there is no interest for me. I think there is a list of the Dish markets and what OTA channel guides dish has.
 

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Blowgun said:
Maybe DISH might be more inclined to do that sort of thing for markets that are in the top 100 or because it's PBS. I wonder if top markets like New York or Los Angeles have complete listings?

In addition to not having The CW mirrored in the EPG for OTA, we do not receive the PBS sub-channels, nor do we get listings for Grit (Fox) and METV (MYTV).
Dallas has a lot of missing EPG on DISH. On TIVO I've got programming for just about all channels.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
If I wanted a good OTA guide that would be record-able on a DVR, is my only choice a Tivo? They do make DVR recorders, but no guide. Of course with Tivo there is a charge.
 

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mwdxer said:
... but then put in a faster processor into the receivers.
A great idea ... how many millions of receivers are in DISH's 13 million subscriber homes?

It took years to plan and complete the transition to allow DISH to end QPSK transponders for regular services. And the receivers they moved people to were NOT the top of the line fastest processors that ever carried a DISH logo. They were rebuilds of receivers that are adequate for the job of receiving 8PSK transponders. Some customers upgraded to DISH's most recent equipment (the Hopper) but there are still plenty of older receivers designed over a decade ago still running the same processors that they had when released.

mwdxer said:
I think there is a list of the Dish markets and what OTA channel guides dish has.
http://uplink.jameslong.name/locallist.html shows what is linked in the EPG stream.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
There are the favorite lists. We do need to use the whole guide. But of course if we took the attitude that there are always issues in adding more to the EPG, we would still have a hundred channels and no OTA tuners with EPGs. There is always change.
I know in Portland some that do not have the EPG"
2.3 The Comet
12.2 Cozi
12.3 Laff
32.3 This TV
49.2 Escape

I am sure there are others.
 

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Have you not read? The full EPG (all channels) needs to be downloaded in order to get the subset of channels available on your receiver. Your receiver is downloading EPG for the entire country and filtering out channels that will not be shown on your receiver (hidden unsubscribed channels and channels on satellites that you do not receive).

The subset of EPG stored on your receiver is less than the full feed ... but it is every channel that could be in your guide, not just your favorites. After all, if you change your favorites list or search for a show that is not on one of your favorite channels would you not want to see those results?

There are other ways EPG could be handled ... I'd consider Internet download to be an option. But DISH would need to do the math and figure out how many customers would benefit from the expense of designing and supporting such a system. So far, they have declined to move in that direction.
 

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James Long said:
Have you not read? The full EPG (all channels) needs to be downloaded in order to get the subset of channels available on your receiver. Your receiver is downloading EPG for the entire country and filtering out channels that will not be shown on your receiver (hidden unsubscribed channels and channels on satellites that you do not receive).

The subset of EPG stored on your receiver is less than the full feed ... but it is every channel that could be in your guide, not just your favorites. After all, if you change your favorites list or search for a show that is not on one of your favorite channels would you not want to see those results?

There are other ways EPG could be handled ... I'd consider Internet download to be an option. But DISH would need to do the math and figure out how many customers would benefit from the expense of designing and supporting such a system. So far, they have declined to move in that direction.
That is why Tivo charges $15/mo. and downloads from the internet using modem or telephone connections. If you want it you may have to pay for the information. You may want to look into a Tivo with "LIFETIME" subscription.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Okay, right now the guide for 8-9 days does not take a long time to download and the guide is downloaded in the middle of the night or anytime the customer chooses to have the receiver off for updates. So I still do not see an issue with adding some extra EPG info.I don't have any issue downloading mine to the 211k and it does when I am not awake. So does it make any difference? My old 2700 had that issue, as every 6 hours it had to download more guide, but with the newer receivers with an HDD, there is not any issue.
Thanks for the info on the Tivo.
 
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