Preparing for new HD install (LOS questions)

1953 Views 30 Replies 15 Participants Last post by carl6, Aug 22, 2008

ck42

Discussion Starter · Aug 15, 2008

I've currently been in this house 3 yrs and installed my own dish when I moved it. Unfortunately, the back yard is pretty full of trees (did a little pruning when I first moved in to thin it out a little tho). This was a standard SD channel setup. I can't even recall what the angle was that I was suppose to point to, so I don't know which SAT I'm even pointing to right now.

To compensate for the not 100% clear LOS, I upgraded the dish to a 22" model. This helped. I now have a range of about 70-90%, depending upon which TP I'm looking at. I only get rain fade in the worst of conditions.

My question now though is that since I'm going with an HD setup, which satellites will I need to be pointing at...so I can check the LOS now. It seems that 99 and 103 are the ones that will be feeding me all my HD channels, right?
Do 99 and 103 provide any SD content too?

Other question, since there are like 99, 101, 103, 110, and 119, which ones do I actually *NEED* to be able to point to in order to get my HD and SD channels?

I've done a quick eyeball test using a compass and it looks like 119 is going to be a real problem (It's just pointing into a bunch of trees). So, for my new HD setup, do I actually *NEED* to be able to receive from 119? Apparently, I don't need it right now to get any of my standard SD channels

...and if my HD is coming in on 99 and 103, then not getting 119 would not seem to be an issue. Am I missing anything here?

So, I'm a little confused about WHICH sats I need to actually see in order to get the channels I'm suppose to get.

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Mertzen

· #2 · Aug 15, 2008

ck42 said:
It seems that 99 and 103 are the ones that will be feeding me all my HD channels, right?

Yes

ck42 said:
Do 99 and 103 provide any SD content too?

No

ck42 said:
Other question, since there are like 99, 101, 103, 110, and 119, which ones do I actually *NEED* to be able to point to in order to get my HD and SD channels?

99,101,103. Since you seem to currently get all your SD from 101.

ck42 said:
Am I missing anything here?

So, I'm a little confused about WHICH sats I need to actually see in order to get the channels I'm suppose to get.

Unless you want spanish/asian programming you can do with 99.101.103. But the tech might now want to install without 110/119.

ck42

Discussion Starter · #3 · Aug 16, 2008

Mertzen:

Thanks much for the clear, concise answers!

I've read in other posts about installers possibly not wanting to do the install if they couldn't get 110, 119 too. I hope I don't run into that problem. :nono2:

Another thing that just occurred to me:
I have a VOIP service at my house. I've tried a couple times in the past to get my S1 Directivo to dial home, but it appears that my particular VOIP service (ViaTalk) doesn't do too well with data calls. As such, My S1 hasn't made a call in several years.

So, my next question is - Is there going to be an issue with the installer insisting that there be a working phone line to hook up to the receiver to complete the install?

If so, could I substitute hooking up an Ethernet connection to my network?

jlancaster

· #4 · Aug 16, 2008

ck42 said:
Mertzen:

Thanks much for the clear, concise answers!

I've read in other posts about installers possibly not wanting to do the install if they couldn't get 110, 119 too. I hope I don't run into that problem. :nono2:
/quote]
You may still run into this problem depending on the installer because if the 119 fails they may not get paid for your job. The same may apply as far as the network/phone line is concerned as well. My suggestion: if an installer does the work and cannot get the 119 tip him/her very well as he may not get paid otherwise.

Good Luck!

texasbrit

· #5 · Aug 16, 2008

ck42 said:
Mertzen:

Thanks much for the clear, concise answers!

I've read in other posts about installers possibly not wanting to do the install if they couldn't get 110, 119 too. I hope I don't run into that problem. :nono2:

Another thing that just occurred to me:
I have a VOIP service at my house. I've tried a couple times in the past to get my S1 Directivo to dial home, but it appears that my particular VOIP service (ViaTalk) doesn't do too well with data calls. As such, My S1 hasn't made a call in several years.

So, my next question is - Is there going to be an issue with the installer insisting that there be a working phone line to hook up to the receiver to complete the install?

If so, could I substitute hooking up an Ethernet connection to my network?

You also could call the installer beforehand and ask them to use an SL3 dish instead of the SL5. Many installers (not all) now have them available and it allows you to do an installation without 119. It also solves the guide problem you will have if you have an installation where you can't see 119.

ck42

Discussion Starter · #6 · Aug 16, 2008

jlancaster/texasbrit,

Very good info and advice. I'm glad I came here with my questions!
Regarding calling the installer beforehand though - will I at some point have their number? If I will, I will certainly see if I can talk to them about just using an SL3.

Regarding the phone line - That's definitely not going to happen.
Can having a network connection be a substitute for the phone line connection? I can certainly take care of getting that done, no problem.

tkrandall

· #7 · Aug 16, 2008

ck42: magnetic azimuth to 101 is about 211 degrees for north atlanta area. 110 is 225 and 119 is at around 235 deg. just wanted to make sure you had the orientation right. as already noted, we only need 99/101/103 now in this market, but the slimline 3 dish is not out yet for our area as far as I know, so you will likely have to deal with an installer with only the sl5 in stock

ck42

Discussion Starter · #8 · Aug 16, 2008

tkrandall said:
ck42: magnetic azimuth to 101 is about 211 degrees for north atlanta area. 110 is 225 and 119 is at around 235 deg. just wanted to make sure you had the orientation right. as already noted, we only need 99/101/103 now in this market, but the slimline 3 dish is not out yet for our area as far as I know, so you will likely have to deal with an installer with only the sl5 in stock

Yep....those are the mag azs I was using when walking around in the back yard with the compass.
I've been doing more googling regarding the SL3 and guide issues and installers and what not....and it REALLY seems that I need to ensure that I *somehow* get an SL3 installed. If I have to, I could even postpone the installation until one is available. Don't want to have to wait, but it seems like I either 'should' or may HAVE TO whether I like it or not.

Is there a way for me to contact my installer? It's scheduled for next Friday.

miketorse

· #9 · Aug 16, 2008

Call D*, they will give you the name and number of the company doing the upgrade.

I have the HD service without a LOS to 119, but I got lucky with the installer I received. I was too impatient to wait until the Slimline3 was available though...

ck42

Discussion Starter · #10 · Aug 20, 2008

OK....problems.

Called and got the # for my HSP (AeroSat?)

Described the situation to a lady there. She simply said contact DTV at a number and said they could modify the work order.

So, called DTV...went up two levels to someone else who didn't even know what a 'slimline' was. They know nothing about a SL3 (says she's been there 2 yrs).

Pose the hypothetical scenario to her: Installer comes and can't get 119. Will they complete the install with the SL5? She swears they will complete the install and that it's not an issue. She even spoke with her supervisor a couple of times.

Called AeroSat back and spoke to someone different. He had never heard of a SL3.
Posed the same hypothetical scenario to him. He says NO...they cannot complete the install w/o signal to 119.

:nono2: :nono2: :nono2:

What do I do?

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Mertzen

· #11 · Aug 20, 2008

Try ti obtain a SL3 LNb. Which will be very hard since it is still in limited field trials.

You can try to find a local dealer to do the upgrade without 110/119 but since you are not their customer there is little in it for them. Or persuade a tech to do it.

ck42

Discussion Starter · #12 · Aug 20, 2008

What, if any, technical issues will I possibly have even *if* they proceed with the install?

It seems like I've read somewhere that if I have a SL5 installed and it can't see 119, I won't be able to get guide data...since it tries to get it's data from 119 when using an SL5 dish.
Is this true?

davring

· #13 · Aug 20, 2008

ck42 said:
What, if any, technical issues will I possibly have even *if* they proceed with the install?

It seems like I've read somewhere that if I have a SL5 installed and it can't see 119, I won't be able to get guide data...since it tries to get it's data from 119 when using an SL5 dish.
Is this true?

If you can get a tech to align your dish using 99c/103c you should be good to go. As far as guide data, I have read that if you leave your receiver tuned to any channel coming from the 101 overnight, your data will remain current, if left on any other sat for long periods your data will not be updated. Again, this is what I have read, I believe from texasbrit, who is very knowledgeable about D* systems.

harsh

· #14 · Aug 20, 2008

If you had to step up to a 22" to get 101W reliably, you're going to have nothing but problems with the Slimline dish if it is mounted in the same location. While the Slimline (either 3LNB or 5LNB version) is much larger than your current dish, it is designed for Ka reception in an obstruction-free environment. If you can't do something about the trees or where the dish is mounted, you're going to need to look into some sort of Alaska/Hawaii dish arrangement and it may still be a fight to get HD signals.

ck42

Discussion Starter · #15 · Aug 20, 2008

Davring....now that you mentioned that, it rings a bell. I'd rather not have to rely upon a kluge of sorts though if possible. That's even assuming that the installer would DO the install.

harsh: What is the Alaska/Hawaii dish arrangement?? :grin:

BattleZone

· #16 · Aug 21, 2008

ck42 said:
harsh: What is the Alaska/Hawaii dish arrangement?? :grin:

It uses a PAIR of 1.2 meter round dishes, one with a 99/101/103 LNB, and one with a 110/119 LNB. IIRC, due to the stack plan in the switch, both have to be used. Cost for the set of dishes runs around $800, and you'll have to pay for installation. Realize that virtually no installer in CONUS has ever even seen these dishes, so it would be custom all around.

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ck42

Discussion Starter · #17 · Aug 21, 2008

IIP: LOL! Okay. Doesn't look like an option, but thanks for the very interesting info on those dishes!

harsh

· #18 · Aug 21, 2008

Your choices are (in descending order of desirability?):

1. The dish needs to go somewhere where it isn't obscured by trees
2. The offending trees need to move
3. You stay with what you have
4. You try your hand with another provider

flipptyfloppity

· #19 · Aug 21, 2008

I don't mean to be a jerk, but just prune your trees. Even if it takes a bucket truck.

If you come up with a plan that works this year for everything but 119, in a year or two more it won't even work for 99/101/103. If you prune it the right amount today, you'll have at least 4-5 years before even 119 is encroached again. And you won't have to worry about the wind moving them around and blocking your signal.

ck42

Discussion Starter · #20 · Aug 21, 2008

flipptyfloppity said:
I don't mean to be a jerk, but just prune your trees. Even if it takes a bucket truck.

If you come up with a plan that works this year for everything but 119, in a year or two more it won't even work for 99/101/103. If you prune it the right amount today, you'll have at least 4-5 years before even 119 is encroached again. And you won't have to worry about the wind moving them around and blocking your signal.

Unfortunately, the trees are in the backyard and there's NO way a truck could get back there. :nono2:
I've already thought though about maybe hiring a tree cutting service to come in and scale the trees and start lopping off branches and trimming things. If it wasn't so high up, I'd attempt it myself :grin:

From what I understand, it's not cheap having trees professionally felled. $200/tree comes to mind. If I took that route, this could end up being one seriously expensive dish installation :eek2: Hence why thinking about just having them trim branches.

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