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Legend
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
We almost never have power failures where I live, but because I wanted to protect my LCD projection TV and also keep from losing recordings in progress, I bought a UPS (battery back-up) for my HR20 and TV.
Tonight we lost our power twice, once for just a few seconds and once for about 20 minutes.
Although it was bizarre to see all the lights go off and this big 50" tv stay lit, it was comforting to know that my HR20 was still recording and that when I turned my TV off, the cooling fans would continue to run as long as they needed to.
BTW, once the TV quit drawing power, the HR20 put almost not load on the UPS and I suspect it would have kept running for at least a couple of hours.
And when the power came on I went into my room to watch the rest of the game on my old TIVO unit, but of course it was still busy re-powering and re-booting and all that stuff.
So I went back into the living room where the HR20 was happily chugging along as though nothing had happened.
The UPS I bought was overkill; can't remember the exact details right now. But it sure was worth it just for the peace of mind.
:)
DBF
 

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AllStar
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I agree. I love my UPS.

I live on the WORST block where I live for power outages. We will get power outages every month for no apparent reason. So, I got a UPS for every computer and my HR20. I should put our LCD TV on the UPS too, except I have a feeling if I do, people will continue watching it once the power goes out :grin:

But we keep the thing cool, so it really shouldn't be a problem...
 

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Agreed. I've got some construction going on around the house, and the power flickers at least once a day. If I didn't have it on a UPS, I'd never have guide data past midnight...
 

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Legend
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I've been wanting to put my equipment on UPS. Can you guys tell me what brand you use and how many watts yours are rated at? I'd like to put my r10,hr20 and tv on a UPS.
 

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506PIR said:
I've been wanting to put my equipment on UPS. Can you guys tell me what brand you use and how many watts yours are rated at? I'd like to put my r10,hr20 and tv on a UPS.
I recommend the APC 1100 (or such)...available at Sams Club for 130 bucks. They have typicaly 1100 or 1200 watt models...and that will run your HR20 for a long time, and also allow the TV to cool down properly (assuming it has a lamp that needs a fan on it to cool down properly, like any DLP)

Any big discount superstore should have the APC units and depending on which one they carry at the time, you should be able to get one of the two ratings above for the price indicated.

I'm overkill here. I have 3 of them:

1. HR20 and accessories (powerd switches/fans/DVD Recorder, etc)

2. Onkyo HT Amp

3. Samsung DLP 56" TV

Each is rated at either 1100 or 1200 watts.

No missed recordings here, and can watch my HT system in a complete power loss for over an hour.
 

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Cutting Edge: ECHELON '08
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506PIR said:
I've been wanting to put my equipment on UPS. Can you guys tell me what brand you use and how many watts yours are rated at? I'd like to put my r10,hr20 and tv on a UPS.
See the Installation Tips and Tricks. At a minimum you want at least:
500 V-A
500 Joules.

Also, this white paper has a lot of good informaiton about why UPS are so important:

The Seven Types of Power Problems

APC is king of the market, consider one like this:

APC - 550VA Battery Back-Up System

at Best Buy.

Again, that is a minimum. If your TV draws a lot of power you need way more than this if it is protected by the same UPS.

The right UPS can protect you from dips and sags, brown-outs, and spikes, as well as a true power outage. I wonder how many of the problems people come home to with partials and locked up units were power related.

At least one person on our forum says that UPS can do nothing for you. He has had many problems but is convinced that a UPS would not help with anything.

For me, $60 is a cheap insurance policy even if all it ever does is once save the 6-10 minute reboot process in the middle of a game or show. Last week in a snow/wind/ice storm in the midwest our power dipped and sagged and spiked for a day. Our HR20 never missed a beat. WIthout a UPS it would have at least reset a dozen times.

Take care,

Craig
 

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I used to be a rocket scientist
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You folks need more than a good UPS - you need to hold your local power utility to account for lousy service. They're regulated monopolies for heaven's sake! They're going to get away with anything they can. Call your utility board and complain. Show up at regulatory commission meetings and raise hell. Jeez, I'd be seriously pissed if I lost power as much as you guys seem to. We haven't lost power (even a flicker) more than three times in five and a half years.
 

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Just last week I got a Cyberpower 485 VA unit from Staples, on sale for $19.99. It should help, especially for the little brown outs in a big storm. I connected my external drive to it as well, and the phone line.

I'm jealous of you guys who could run your tvs and HR20s for an hour if your home loses power, but personally, I wouldn't spend nearly 1/2 price of the unit to do that. Then again, I spent more than 1/2 the price of the unit to nearly double the recording capacity. :)

For me, I want to keep it from getting fried, and not miss any recordings. Connecting my tv is secondary. I could always watch another time.
 

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Rural Iowa Cooperatives...so we are the owners.

Winds, blizzards, ice storms, drunk drivers, trees falling,....I've lived in Iowa the vast majority of my life and while full power outages are rare and typically not more than a couple hours(we have had one last over a week!), power winkies in high winds are quite common.

I would say in the winter we see a couple winkies with every major wind storm, and in the summer with the proliferation of T-boomers, several times per week. These are enough to reset a computer.

Having no other reference, and being geo-centric, I think our power is pretty darn good...(in other words, the outages we get are not bad)...BUT, delicate electronics do require protection in our environment. That is the reality here. The required infrastructure changes to eliminate these would be prohibitively expensive and I WOULD NEVER VOTE FOR THEM! When the simple addition of a UPS that costs between 40 and 130 bucks solves the problem, your proposed cure is worse than the disease it purports to cure. One size doesn't fit all.

You won't find me going to meetings and raising hell...because the problems are not numerous or severe...and making a case of "my TV" or "my DVR" or "my computer" would be laughed out of the room. (and should be). That's what they make UPSs for!

So, if your power is pristine, we're happy for you. The rest of us need UPSs if we care about our equipment at all. (and reside in areas where power interruptions are unavoidable)
 

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mikeny said:
Just last week I got a Cyberpower 485 VA unit from Staples, on sale for $19.99. It should help, especially for the little brown outs in a big storm. I connected my external drive to it as well, and the phone line.

I'm jealous of you guys who could run your tvs and HR20s for an hour if your home loses power, but personally, I wouldn't spend nearly 1/2 price of the unit to do that. Then again, I spent more than 1/2 the price of the unit to nearly double the recording capacity. :)

For me, I want to keep it from getting fried, and not miss any recordings. Connecting my tv is secondary. I could always watch another time.
You obviously don't record programs for your wife. :D )..for fail safe, you need an hour on the recording device. If your TV is a DLP and you don't put it on a UPS, I wouldn't give you a nickel for your lamp life (if you lose power for more than a few minutes)

For nothing more than protection, certainly you only need a few minutes (long enough to run the fan on the DLP), and something to catch the horribly dirty shut down/start up of a utility line that has gone down....it is NEVER pretty.

I will say this: when we have had one of the "big ones" in the summer, and the power goes completely down for a couple hours...there is something "neat" about watching the HT in the dark and waiting for the power to come back up.

I even have a jump pack in the upstairs bedroom connected to a small inverter to run the sat receiver and small tv. Wind howling, complete white out, house fully dark and still (except the damn beeping of the UPSs), watching the local news to see when we get power back and when we will be able to get back out on the roads (yes, they close routinely with snow storms in rural Iowa).

When major snow storms hit our area, it is not unusual to not even be able to get to a paved road for 12 to 18 hours. Ahhhh...country living! My closest paved road is over 2 miles away...and guess which gravel roads get plowed last?
 

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I used to be a rocket scientist
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That's what they make UPSs for!
Meanwhile your Co-op board laughs its way to the bank. Routinely losing service you're paying for is absurd. I've had Co-op utilities in a very rural area before, an area with plenty of old-growth trees subject to ice storms, bad drivers on twisty roads, etc. And STILL only lost power a handful of times in three and a half years. It all comes down to what's acceptable to you. If you want to buy a UPS (that will have to be replaced every couple of years as the battery and internal components wear out) for your home theater, fine. But the real onus is on those who need power for farm operations, home health care (where a $60 UPS won't cut it), and small businesses (same situation). Your utility is fundamentally charging you for a service they are not delivering and you're letting them get away with it. As a monopoly, you have no real alternative unless you have the acreage for a hugely-expensive bank of solar PV arrays and batteries/inverters or a wind farm. How many people here call D* and raise hell when one channel goes dark or they have to reset their HR20 in the middle of a game? And everyone here cheers them on: "You're paying for service . . . blah blah blah." It's even MORE important that a monopoly reliably provide what they are allowed and required by law to provide. At least in D*'s case you can threaten to go to another provider.

It's your money but I'd hate to waste it like that if it were me. Your utility is ripping you off. Or rather, you're letting your member-owned co-op rip you off (and your neighbors, who may have bigger needs than keeping an HR20 and DLP bulb alive).
 

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BTW, be aware that low cost UPS's usually do not produce a true sinusoidal output. Most of them produce a square wave which could damage certain equipment. As far as the HR20, it's hard to say.

Here is an excerpt from the excellent online UPS FAQ located HERE.

Q: How important is the UPS output waveform?

A: That's a good question, and one is worthy of some debate. One school of thought holds that one should always run equipment on the best approximation of sinusoidal input that one can, and that deviations produce harmonics which may either be interpreted as signal if they get through a power supply, or may actually damage the equipment. Another school holds that since almost all computers use switching-type power supplies, which only draw power at or near the peaks of the waveforms, the shape of the input power waveform is not important. Who's right? I don't know. My opinion is that sinusoidal output is worth the extra money, especially for on-line UPS systems that continually provide their waveform to the computer. Also, if you don't know that your equipment has a switching-type power supply, you might want to think twice before buying a low quality UPS.
Basically, you get what you pay for.
 

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Chris Blount said:
BTW, be aware that low cost UPS's usually do not produce a true sinusoidal output. Most of them produce a square wave which could damage certain equipment. As far as the HR20, it's hard to say.

Basically, you get what you pay for.
I agree wholeheartedly.

I have my A/V stuff, all of it including both an H20 and an HR20 as well as a 42" LCD flat screen, on a rather substantial APC Smart-UPS (I can't remember the specs) which does produce a true sine wave and has Automatic Voltage Regulation to boot. In front of the UPS is a Brick Wall surge protector which gives worst case protection to everything. The investment in both of these devices, maybe $700-$800, is in my opinion well worth it.
 

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AllStar
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506PIR said:
I've been wanting to put my equipment on UPS. Can you guys tell me what brand you use and how many watts yours are rated at? I'd like to put my r10,hr20 and tv on a UPS.
I have and recommend the Belkin Pre AV line of UPS. Some people will strongly recommend one with a true sine wave, and this one is a "close" approximation without spending tons of money for a "true" one. Most cheap ones aren't even close to a sine - even if they say they are. And it looks great as an a/v component under the TV.
 

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AllStar
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One word of caution on sizing: 1000 watts is 670 VA (volt-amps). So, if you're figuring load by multiplying amperage ratings by 110 volts, be aware.

Another note is related to run times. Most consumer UPSs are setup to give you enough power to save open documents on your computer and then shut it down - that's something like 10-15 minutes typically.

A final note is these things are not maintanence free. They have sealed batteries in them that need replacing every X number of years. Some higher end UPSs will tell you when the battery life has decreased significantly. On others you won't find out until you try to really use it.
 

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Legend
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Hey guys. Thank you very much for all the help. I appreciate it very much. Not only a good resource but good people here. I guess I will get 2 UPS. 1 strictly for the tv (wega hd tube) and keep my hr20 and r10 on the 2nd. Any suggestions on the minimum watt ups for the 2 recievers?
 

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Legend
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Just as a benchmark:

I have a Sony SXRD 60 A2000 and I put a Tripp-Lite 1500Va ups on the TV and my HR20.

The UPS has a rated run time of up to 3 hours. I got 12 minutes with the TV on.

By my guesstimates, I should be able to run the HR20 fgor at least an hour on the unit.


BTW - I have nad virtually no lockups since I installed a line conditioning UPS on the HR20.

Having said that, I'm sure my HR20 is freezing right now . . . . . :lol:
 
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I use a ups for the HR20 and the LCD TV. It's cheap insurance
 
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