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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I think when everyone has a really fast connection, most people would rather watch stuff on the net rather than on Dish because the bitrate and picture quality on Dish Network's regular definition channels is just incredibly bad. I mean I saw this trailer on my computer, and even though the source material is not that great, it still blows away anything on Dish Network.
The source material is the weak link for this trailer, but for Dish Network the OVERCOMPRESSION Dish Network uses is ALWAYS the weak link.
It had none of the compression artifacts that Dish Network has in dark scenes and in fast motion.
This Quicktime trailer is 47 Megabytes(376 Megabits) so only download it if you have a broadband connection.
It took me many hours to download it on a 56k modem.
This trailer has 480 lines of horizontal resolution(640x480), while Dish Network only has 360 lines of horizontal resolution(480x480).
If I can download quicktime video using a 56k modem that looks better than anything on Dish Network's regular definition channels, then what does that say about Dish Network's commitment to quality? Notice how all the problems with this trailer are really the fault of the source material, and not because of overcompression the way Dish Network has overcompression.
BTW, right click and choose save target as if you want to download and watch the trailer.

a1328.g.akamai.net/5/1328...2_fscr.mov
 
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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
hmmmm.......My picture quality is fine on Dish Network.
Comparing Quictime to Dish is like apples to oranges.
You could try DirectTV, maybe there quality is alot better. :D
 
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
That's ridiculous. Try watching Dish's picture on your 15 or 17 inch monitor, it'll look much better than on your 27 or 32 or you name the size TV. Not to mention it took you several hours to download it. Who's going to watch video it takes hours to download when it's about 3 minutes of video at the rate that Dish sends it?

Direct's PQ is similar to Dish's. I prefer Dish's slightly overall softer picture than Direct's. When I watch Direct at my Dad's, any bright colored line, like you see on Sportscenter, looks jagged and catches my eye and all I can do is stare at that stupid line. Both companies PQ is a compromise between having more channels and the best posssible PQ. YMMV
 
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
markh
DBSTalk Member
Posts: 11
Posted: 3/16/02 12:37:00 pm
Re: Quicktime video DESTORYS crappy Dish Network video
That's ridiculous. Try watching Dish's picture on your 15 or 17 inch monitor, it'll look much better than on your 27 or 32 or you name the size TV. Not to mention it took you several hours to download it. Who's going to watch video it takes hours to download when it's about 3 minutes of video at the rate that Dish sends it?
Direct's PQ is similar to Dish's. I prefer Dish's slightly overall softer picture than Direct's. When I watch Direct at my Dad's, any bright colored line, like you see on Sportscenter, looks jagged and catches my eye and all I can do is stare at that stupid line. Both companies PQ is a compromise between having more channels and the best posssible PQ. YMMV

It's NOT ridiculous.
That trailer is 376 Megabits, and it's 75 seconds long. That's 5.013 Mbps, and it's 640x480 resolution.
Dish Network's regular definition channels are lucky if they can get 2.5Mbps, and Dish Network's regular definition channels are 480x480 resolution, and a very soft overcompressed 480x480 resolution at that.
BTW, the only reason it took hours was because I downloaded it on a 56k modem. If you have a broadband modem, sometimes you can stream video fast enough to play much higher bitrate streaming video than Dish Network's standard def channels Bitrate.
BOTH Dish and Directv have IMHO horrible picture quality on their regular definition channels. The average person might have very poor eyes for catching bad picture quality.
Analog C-Band has very good regular definition picture quality, and Dish Network and Directv have VERY BAD regular definition picture quality.
Somebody with a trained eye, or a nack for catching these things can see this even on a 20" television.
Somebody who's convinced that Dish's regular definition channels have a perfect picture would require a head to head comparison vs the same channel on Analog C-Band vs Dish Network projected on large 120" or larger screens using PFP Controllers and DLP Projectors for example.
ANYONE(even the biggest supporters of Dish Network) would have no choice but to admit that Dish Network's regular definition channels are PURE GARBAGE when it comes to picture quality once they've seen such a head to head comparison of Dish Network's regular definition picture quality vs Analog C-Band's picture quality on such a large screen.
 
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
You are comparing apples and oranges. Most of selected Dish or DirecTV not because it had better video quality than cable, carried channels that the local cable provider doesn't carry and has no plans on carrying, was cheaper than cheaper than cable, or the local cablecos customer service sucks. However, because of the technology being used, there are trade-offs. But, I don't think any of us expected "Home Theater Quality" from DBS nowadays.

You are apparently ignorant of what goes into providing a DBS signal. Both Dish Network and DirecTV use MPEG compress (or a slight variant thereof). Gee, that's the same compression that is used on DVDs and many videos downloaded from the Internet. However, DBS has to compress the signal "live, real time, and on-the-fly", which the DVD producers have the luxury of taking their time in compressing the signal further while maintaining picture quality. (And, before you point out that DVDs have a higher bit rate, that bit rate includes alternative language tracks (including commentaries) and subtitles).

In addition, while I wasn't able to determine the frame rate of the Planet Of The Apes video, I have viewed other quicktime videos where the actual frame rate was around 15 fps--less than the 24/30 fps used for movies and video.

Dish is also at capacity limits due to the must-carry regulations in regards to local stations. Because of delays in getting E*7 and E*8 launched, all of the channels got extra compressed in order to carry the extra locals. At present the ABC/CBS/NBC/FOX/PBS/UPN/WB stations are carried on both 110 and 119, while other local stations were added to 61.5 or 148, or, in Philadelphia's case, 129. Relief will be coming when E*7 is finished testing and becomes operational and the locals are moved to the spot beams. More relief will occur once E*8 is launched and operational later this year.

As for C-band, for the consumer side, with less than 1 million subscribers, it's practically dead. Many of the channels and wild feeds utilize MPEG compression, and the equipment is not available for the consumer. Many people have abandoned the BUD in favor of the little Dish simply because not everyone in the household wants to watch the same channel. Some of us simply can't install the BUD in our back ya[/i]
 
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Nowhere in my post did I say that PQ was perfect on Dish. I also don't happen to think it's compete garbage either.

If analog C band is that good, then you should watch that. We had a BUD that was pointed at Galaxy 5 and as I remember it, being analog it also had some analog PQ problems. Some channels had wavy lines and others could be snowy at times. I never saw posterization or aliasing though. Pick your poison, I guess.

When I get a 120 inch screen with PFP controllers and DLP projecters then I guess I'll be as upset about Dish PQ as you. Until then it ain't perfect but it gets the job done.

BTW is that you, Jack? ;)
 
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Steve Jay Shem
DBSTalk Moderator/Admin
Posts: 1102
Posted: 3/16/02 6:39:44 pm
Re: Re:
376MB that would take me a few days to download.
Steve
[email protected]

It's 376MegaBITS which is equal to 47 Megabytes.
It takes hours on a 56k modem, but it can be downloaded pretty quickly with a broadband connection.
 
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
My mistake, bits not bytes. That would be about 9 hours for me since it tooks me about 4 hours to download RollerCoaster Tycoon, which is 20MB.
 
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
We have an analog BUD in the back yard and some of the channels come in crystal clear, but other times it's windy and the dish is moving around or it's a low power transponder and the picture gets lots of sparklies. Also, we live near some mountains, so the entire arc is not visible to my location. And there's no onscreen program guide.

Also, we can't get Portland OR locals (or the many other locals avaialable on pizza dishes) on a BUD. And the few networks available the BUD are quite spendy. And the subscription prices keep going up. Right now you would be hard pressed to match a BUD package channel for channel to an E* or D* package and find much if any savings.

And on the premium packages, analog C-Band doesn't even carry all the channels bundled in a D* or E* premium package.
 
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
markh, the reality is, smaller or not, the computer screen will show flaws worse:) Your computer screen is equivilent to 768p 85fps (well mine is, it depends on your res and refresh):)
 
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I never thought of it like that before Gummy, that would make mine 864P and 75FPS
 
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I didn't think of that either. I saw a 2.3" handheld TV at Best Buy, that ought to be small enough to do the trick. :)
 
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Hey if Ned is willing to download all of his programming through his 56K modem then more power to him.

The rest of us that prefer to watch our shows in realtime will continue to watch Dish or DirecTv.
 
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