[asjamias]

Ok...I would like to relocate my satellite dish to other side of my house. House sits facing south with the existing ground pole mount just beside the driveway going to the backyard [google pic attached]. Currently, dish is grounded incorrectly and is not cemented so a strong gust of wind will knock it out of alignment. Electric meter is found just beside my driveway with a ground rod inside. I've got a whole house surge protector installed also.

New location would be between my house and a neighbor beside 2 a/c units. I will bury an 8' pole about 2 or 3' below ground level together with a conduit to run some solid copper coax cables. Now here's the big concern...

The nearest source of ground is a small electrical panel for the 2 a/c units. Electric co. who did the wiring said it was ok to tap into that ground. Do you guys think this is ok? or will the ground from the a/c unit carry any static into my feed?

Lastly, when the analog tv transition comes, I want to add an ota antenna to the pole, about a foot below the directv dish using a j-style mount. I would think that this would need grounding as well. Would tapping this into the a/c unit ground work on top of the Directv coax ground? or will I be better off burying a new ground rod and tie it to the main system?

thanks for taking the time to read, I know it's long....

 

[BattleZone]

The ground location should be just fine; the AC box will be grounded to the house ground.

I wouldn't think that using the DirecTV pole would be a good place for an OTA antenna. You want those as high as possible. Mounted to a pole attached to the chimney is usually the best place.

 

[harsh]

The question is whether or not they've created a new bonding point with the A/C remote panel. Chances are pretty good that they have.

Putting the dish on the west side of the house should be fine. If you put the antenna down low, it may well get blocked by your neighbor's home for 119W.

I would question whether or not you even need an outdoor OTA antenna as most of your broadcast towers are within five miles according to the TVFool.com post-transition table. Also note that your CBS, Fox and NBC stations will all be broadcasting in the VHF band (hence the ridiculously low power transmitters) so you'll want to make sure whatever you get is a full-spectrum antenna.

 

[asjamias]

well..I opened the a/c electrical panel and was relieved to see a good ground bus which I can tap into. all I need is a good 10 gauge wire.

as far the satellites are concerned, dishpointer is telling me that I have a better view of it if I place it there. I am going to use an 8' pole that will be buried 2 or 2.5' below ground, so it will leave me a good 6' to play with. I can get a longer pole if need be. you think a 7' pole [finished] should be sufficient enough?

 

[AntAltMike]

You cannot satisfy the NEC mast or coax grounding requirements by grounding the mast or coax outer conductor to the air conditioning shutoff box and you are not allowed to connect a satellite grounding wire to any grounding bus in any electrical box, including the one in the main breaker panel.

The people here who know about grounding requirements no longer participate in grounding threads. You need to call your local electrical inspector and to rely on his recommendations if you really care about grounding to code.

 

[mjtville]

as far the satellites are concerned, dishpointer is telling me that I have a better view of it if I place it there. I am going to use an 8' pole that will be buried 2 or 2.5' below ground, so it will leave me a good 6' to play with. I can get a longer pole if need be. you think a 7' pole [finished] should be sufficient enough?[/QUOTE]

When I put in a poll mount the first thing I take into consideration is hitting the satellites, future growth of trees, and future building of a structure or fence on the property next door. Next would be how much foot traffic / lawn mowing / trimming / etc. is going to happen near the dish. I always try to get it close to the house in plant bed or shrubs and it's normally lower maybe 4' above ground and I always go 24" to 36" deep and wider at the bottom of the hole. If it has to go on the lawn, a little higher so no one wacks their head on it. So it depends on your situation.

I sometimes pound the pole flat on the bottom 12" to 16" to keep it from twisting in the concrete. Most times I drill through the pole (2) about 8" and 16" from the bottom and put a piece of all thread (or a bolt) in it sticking 4" to 6 " out both sides and then nut it on both sides to accomplish the same thing. It depends on the install. I also pour dry (quick set gravel mix) Sakrete into the pole filling it 4' or 5' and then add a little water to make the whole thing more rigid. I personally like less flex in the pole. My poles also get sprayed with a primer and painted gray or the color of the home , coax in pvc, and enclosure boxes on the home to cover my grounds. I like the look of a dish but I don't like to see cables all over the place! (Yes I do a lot of custom work).

 

[asjamias]

AntAltMike...

I've read that the NEC is not the law but merely a guideline. Local codes should always be follow and for my town, they follow the 2003 International building code they say.

On the a/c electrical panel, I see a big strand of wire coming from the inside of the house going to the grounding bus. I would presume this is like the tie in from the main ground coming from the main electrical panel. From there, my 2 a/c units are connected to that ground bus. will post pics later for everybody to see...

You would probably be surprised if I tell you that DirecTV grounded my dish to the gas pipe from outside the house.

I just spoke to a electrical technician who's a vendor for our company and he said that it's ok to tie it there since gas pipes are a good source of ground as well, much better than copper water pipes which I don't have. He further said, using the ground bus in the a/c sub panel is ok too. Unless, I want to spend the money and drive a new ground rod nearby and then tie it in to that big strand, then it would be the same thing...

mjtville...

thanks for the pointers..and yes, all things were considered before I decided where to relocate it. even with the new houses in front, LOS is not an issue. much more, this area of my house is where the least of foot traffic. depth, height of finished pole, distance from wall etc. are all considered.

 

[mjtville]

You would probably be surprised if I tell you that DirecTV grounded my dish to the gas pipe from outside the house.

Have I seen it before, YES. Have I done it before, NO. Am I surprised, NO.
EDIT: :"brand new spanking house" I bet that gas line is some type of plastic. No ground!
We need pics of existing dish set up and ground?

I just spoke to a electrical technician who's a vendor for our company and he said that it's ok to tie it there since gas pipes are a good source of ground as well, much better than copper water pipes which I don't have.

Time to find a new vendor. And not better than cold water pipe.
EDIT: if the cold water pipe is cooper / galvanized ( my bad)

He further said, using the ground bus in the a/c sub panel is ok too. Unless, I want to spend the money and drive a new ground rod nearby and then tie it in to that big strand, then it would be the same thing...

Ground rod AND a/c sub panel maybe.

 

[asjamias]

You would probably be surprised if I tell you that DirecTV grounded my dish to the gas pipe from outside the house.

Have I seen it before, YES. Have I done it before, NO. Am I surprised, NO.
We need pics of existing dish set up and ground?

I just spoke to a electrical technician who's a vendor for our company and he said that it's ok to tie it there since gas pipes are a good source of ground as well, much better than copper water pipes which I don't have.

Time to find a new vendor. And not better than cold water pipe.

He further said, using the ground bus in the a/c sub panel is ok too. Unless, I want to spend the money and drive a new ground rod nearby and then tie it in to that big strand, then it would be the same thing...

Ground rod AND a/c sub panel maybe.

did I mention that I have plastic water pipes? and yes, my house is brand spanking new.

talked to another electrician and both have the same thoughts about grounding to a gas pipe. but then again, I am taking out the gas pipe in this equation since the new location will not have any pipes. this electrician said that it is ok to tie in into the ground bus as well in the a/c panel or just screw it outside the panel box.

one thing he suggested was that burying an 8' ground rod but not tying it to the main ground solely for the purpose of dissipating any current generated by lightning just within the satellite dish system. with this setup he said, you don't backhaul all that current back to the main ground system which will probably destroy the a/c units or other appliances. this suggestion was affirmed by a Dish installer that I know.

 

[Grentz]

The problem with having two separate grounds is you have a floating ground situation in the receivers themselves between the satellite coax and any other connections that make it into your local electrical system.

 

[asjamias]

The problem with having two separate grounds is you have a floating ground situation in the receivers themselves between the satellite coax and any other connections that make it into your local electrical system.

Ok...now whats the difference if I bury a ground rod, tie it into the main ground via the ground wire I found in the a/c panel and then tie my satellite ground block to that VS tying my satellite ground block directly to it?

 

[erict]

One thing to remember is the purpose of grounding your dish is for static build up (discharge) and not for lighting protection. For a direct hit the only thing you need is home owners insurance As Grentz said you don’t want a non bonded system (your service ground and your satellite ground). All ground rods must be bonded with a #6 wire to your service ground. As far as grounding to a gas pipe that’s just like leaving a burning candle next to a gas can:eek2: If your dish took a direct hit and followed that wire back to your gas pipe guess what could happing. I can’t believe they said that:nono2:

 

[IDRick]

Ok...now whats the difference if I bury a ground rod, tie it into the main ground via the ground wire I found in the a/c panel and then tie my satellite ground block to that VS tying my satellite ground block directly to it?

My understanding of the NEC is that if you put in a new ground rod, you must interconnect this ground rod with your main service ground. The interconnect needs to be #6 guage copper wire and it must go directly to the main service ground. I'm not an electrical engineer, so I'll stop here... :grin:

 

[AntAltMike]

The NEC is a Model Code that has been enacted in whole or in part in nearly every state. I have had occasion to look it up in three states. In those three states, it says "The XXXX NEC is adopted with the following exceptions:" and then it excludes or expands upon certain restrictions, usually either for regional or economic reasons.

Once upon a time it was permissible to connect to a gas line. It no longer is. It used to be permissible to connect to a cold water pipe but now that cannot be done in a residential system except within five feet of where the water pipe enters the buildings, but in commercial buildings the cold water pipe can be used as long as the plumbing system is professionally maintained and the interior water pipe is substantially exposed.

Remember when antenna rotor wire used to be flat? It used to have one more conductor than the rotor needed, and the two outer conductors had to be grounded. And 300 ohm twin lead used to have to be stood off at least 3" from the surface of the building.

 

[Grentz]

Ok...now whats the difference if I bury a ground rod, tie it into the main ground via the ground wire I found in the a/c panel and then tie my satellite ground block to that VS tying my satellite ground block directly to it?

Just more grounding capacity I guess.

Ground is such a touchy subject and the fact is that even when done to code, it does not always work as it is supposed to as it is such a touchy thing and can vary so much depending on the conditions.

Also many of the grounding "rules" are more to prevent stupid things from happening. For example, they no longer allow you to ground to cold water pipes because so many people were grounding things by accident to gas lines and other copper pipes that were not good grounds (even cold water pipes do not always serve as a good ground, needs to be tested first). Gas lines were removed from grounding rules because more and more gas lines are now plastic mains and thus are not a good ground either (back in the day they were a decent ground).

Finally, I hate how people associate grounding always with lightning. It is there for many other reasons than that. For example, your desktop computers are not grounded to prevent lightning strikes! It is for static discharge and proper circuit creation in many devices.

 

[asjamias]

ok...pictures to show...

picture 233 is the nearest gound source - a/c panel - see the bare ground wire? that's coming from the main ground.

picture 235 is where the present location of the satellite.

picture 237 is how DirecTV grounded my satellite.

picture 241 is the new location - a shot from the backyard - satellite to be installed beside the a/c units. house is facing south already.

 

[erict]

ok...pictures to show...

picture 233 is the nearest gound source - a/c panel - see the bare ground wire? that's coming from the main ground.

picture 235 is where the present location of the satellite.

picture 237 is how DirecTV grounded my satellite.

picture 241 is the new location - a shot from the backyard - satellite to be installed beside the a/c units. house is facing south already.

How far is your service ground from your new dish location?

 

[asjamias]

How far is your service ground from your new dish location?

it's where the present satellite is located [on the other side of the house]. the bare wire you see on the a/c panel is tied to the service ground accdg. to the electric co. who wired my house when it was built.

 

[Johnnie5000]

You cannot satisfy the NEC mast or coax grounding requirements by grounding the mast or coax outer conductor to the air conditioning shutoff box and you are not allowed to connect a satellite grounding wire to any grounding bus in any electrical box, including the one in the main breaker panel.

The people here who know about grounding requirements no longer participate in grounding threads. You need to call your local electrical inspector and to rely on his recommendations if you really care about grounding to code.

And the actual reasoning for DirecTV telling techs not to ground to AC panels is that some units discharge a bit of electricity through their ground when they start up causing multiswitches and lnb's to go crazy. I say go with it, if your TV's go wonky whenever the AC kicks on, put a new ground rod in and ground it to that (backbonding to the existing rod(s) of course).

But as far as grounding to a gas line goes.:nono: .... Lightening + Grounded to gas line = Boom.

 

[asjamias]

And the actual reasoning for DirecTV telling techs not to ground to AC panels is that some units discharge a bit of electricity through their ground when they start up causing multiswitches and lnb's to go crazy. I say go with it, if your TV's go wonky whenever the AC kicks on, put a new ground rod in and ground it to that (backbonding to the existing rod(s) of course).

But as far as grounding to a gas line goes.:nono: .... Lightening + Grounded to gas line = Boom.

a friend of mine who is a dish tech. said that it's ok to tap into that, except when making the connection use a connector for outside the a/c subpanel case or housing.

also, I talked to a local building inspector here and he said that, for most satellite connections, tying it in to the nearest service ground is ok, specially with newer homes. he even mentioned that small gren little screw which I can use within the ground bus.

I have to mention again that I do have a whole house surge protector installed in the main panel and apc surge protectors in lcd tv, home entertainment system, pc's and laptops.

I still can't see the difference in doing this..

service ground > a/c subpanel ground bus > ground rod > ground block > satellite / mast

VS

service ground > a/c subpanel ground bus > ground block > satellite / mast

pictures below shown as:
1. Main electrical panel when house was being built. Red arrow pointing to ground wire from panel going to a/c subpanel.
2. a/c subpanel, red arrow point to ground that came from main electrical panel.
3. Main electrical panel as of today, right red arrow pointing to wire coming from ground rod outside, left red arrow pointing to a/c subpanel ground which show both ground as tied together via the main electrical panel ground bus.

or am I just mising something?