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Cutting Edge: ECHELON '07
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Sighhh.

Guess my 2 months of good luck is gone.

Ever since I had a lock up during rain fade 2 days ago I keep getting this 771 error. I've red button rebooted twice and pulled the plug once.

Signal meter shows that all odd transponders on tuner 2 are 0. Evens are fine. Tuner 1 is fine.

Both tuners on both other DirecTivo's are fine. So I don't think it's an LNB problem.

BBand converters are not connected, never did.
6x8 switch.

Any ideads? Sighhhhhh.
 

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Godfather
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340 Posts
bonscott87 said:
Sighhh.

Guess my 2 months of good luck is gone.

Ever since I had a lock up during rain fade 2 days ago I keep getting this 771 error. I've red button rebooted twice and pulled the plug once.

Signal meter shows that all odd transponders on tuner 2 are 0. Evens are fine. Tuner 1 is fine.

Both tuners on both other DirecTivo's are fine. So I don't think it's an LNB problem.

BBand converters are not connected, never did.
6x8 switch.

Any ideads? Sighhhhhh.
Do you have 0xEB. I do and I have been getting this too. I am able to clear it though by switching from the HD feed to the SD feed and then back to HD again.
 

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Legend
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239 Posts
It sounds like a hardware failure to me. I had an HTL-HD that failed after 2 months the same way. Even transponders were fine, zero on the odds. Get D* to send a replacement.
 

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Godfather
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bonscott87 said:
No, not EB yet.

I can clear it as well switching around to other channels but with odd transponders being out it's a problem that is still there if tuner 2 needs to tune to a program that happens to be on a 0 signal.
You know what I had a lockup Friday night. I think it was due to Rain Fade. It was pouring down rain and when I turned my box on I got a grey screen. Did a reset. Now it seems I get the 771 when I first turn on my box and select a MPEG4 HD local. But I just checked and both tuners are clear.:shrug:
 

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Hall Of Fame
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I have seen this problem in the last and this version of the software.

I have been able to develop this script that allows me to create a 771 error message with about 80% consistancy.

I have tested this with the following stations: HBOHD, SHOHD and MSNBC, each one will typically, but not all the time, come back with a 771 error message on HBO and SHO this will alternate between a 771 and every so often a 721 message will pop up. This may work with other stations but I have not tested it.

1. Start a recording on any station but the one you want to test. On my last test of this I was recording G4

2. change to station 70, 71 or 346

3. Hit the (active) button

4. select weather

5. soon as your weather pops up use your down arrows and select done

6. hit the exit button

On my system I am guessing ~80% of the time I will get a 1...771 error message maybe some green macro blocking with some left over data from the interactive screen and if it is tuned to HBOHD or SHOHD no macro blocking and I may get a quick flash of 721 channel not purchased eventually it ending with a 721 message or eventuality tuning in to the programming. Once this happens I may have change the station and change back 1 or more times and then it will tune back in and I will no longer have problems.

FYI there have been a few times when this the that script worked as expected but I would say less than 20%.

This script was developed and tested on 0xeb, I don't know if I would of seen the same thing under prior versions. Under 0xeb I have only see the 771 error through executing this script, under the prior software it would pop up randomly when trying to record maybe 4 or 5 times over a 2 week cycle. I was always able to change the channel and go back again to clear the 771.
 

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Mentor
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It would be interesting to map that sequence out into the Sat's and polarities of each of those stations.

Going from memory, it sounds like you lock in a station on tuner 1 to something on the 101 sat.
Then, using tuner 2, you force the unit to switch to another LNB for one of the other sats, then switch to a source on 119 (HBOHD is there) and get your errors.

This is symptomatic of issues with multiswitches that are not getting enough power to switch.

Read this little blurb about the types of multiswitches available and remember that there is already one type A multiswitch in the AT9 dish. Couple that with another Type A, the Zimwell 6x8, and you have TWO unpowered multiswitches plus any losses from cable runs, etc. to deal with.

[A] Non-Powered mechanical multi-switch - Cheapest in price. Has mechanical switching mechanism that is controlled by the power coming off of the DirectTV receiver. The DirectTV receiver changes voltages on the line depending on which transponder group it wants to look at. This multiswitch uses that voltage to move the switch.

(B) Powered mechanical multi-switch* - Mid range in price. Has a mechanical switching mechanism. It uses the voltage changes from the DTV receiver to determine what it should look at, but uses it's own external power to control the switch. Example of these are Channel Master and Terk multiswitches.

[C] Powered solid state multi-switch* - Most expensive. Completely solid state-no moving parts. Reads the voltage changes from the DirectTV receiver and electronically routes the signal to the correct LNB. Examples of these are Spauns, Trunkline, JVI.
*There are variations of and [C] which include signal amplification.


I had many of the same symptoms the OP lists, however, they totally went away when I added a class C multiswitch to the mix. Never seen a 771 in the last two weeks. Using the sequence above, could not reproduce the problem either after a few tries.

Like I say in a thread I started about ensuring one has correct power to the dish, many of our issues might be related to an overtaxed and overcomplicated switching scenario. The sequence listed seems to indicate that.
 

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Hall Of Fame
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JonFo said:
It would be interesting to map that sequence out into the Sat's and polarities of each of those stations.

Going from memory, it sounds like you lock in a station on tuner 1 to something on the 101 sat.
Then, using tuner 2, you force the unit to switch to another LNB for one of the other sats, then switch to a source on 119 (HBOHD is there) and get your errors.

This is symptomatic of issues with multiswitches that are not getting enough power to switch.

Read this little blurb about the types of multiswitches available and remember that there is already one type A multiswitch in the AT9 dish. Couple that with another Type A, the Zimwell 6x8, and you have TWO unpowered multiswitches plus any losses from cable runs, etc. to deal with.

[A] Non-Powered mechanical multi-switch - Cheapest in price. Has mechanical switching mechanism that is controlled by the power coming off of the DirectTV receiver. The DirectTV receiver changes voltages on the line depending on which transponder group it wants to look at. This multiswitch uses that voltage to move the switch.

(B) Powered mechanical multi-switch* - Mid range in price. Has a mechanical switching mechanism. It uses the voltage changes from the DTV receiver to determine what it should look at, but uses it's own external power to control the switch. Example of these are Channel Master and Terk multiswitches.

[C] Powered solid state multi-switch* - Most expensive. Completely solid state-no moving parts. Reads the voltage changes from the DirectTV receiver and electronically routes the signal to the correct LNB. Examples of these are Spauns, Trunkline, JVI.
*There are variations of and [C] which include signal amplification.


I had many of the same symptoms the OP lists, however, they totally went away when I added a class C multiswitch to the mix. Never seen a 771 in the last two weeks. Using the sequence above, could not reproduce the problem either after a few tries.

Like I say in a thread I started about ensuring one has correct power to the dish, many of our issues might be related to an overtaxed and overcomplicated switching scenario. The sequence listed seems to indicate that.


I will bypass my Zinwell 6x8 and run the script.

I have no doubt that my script putting a load on the tuners and switches. My system and cabling is in complete spec, ~80 ft solid copper rg6, with compression connectors, no splices, into the zinwell switch and then the BBC which connect to the hr20.

If this clean configuration taxes the infrastructure, then D* may need to provide better switching equipment.

I will get back with what happens.

Also I noticed that you are on the east coast so you likely do not have the latest code. I have only tested this script on the 0xeb. I don't know what would happen on prior versions such as your code.
 

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Cutting Edge: ECHELON '07
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9,809 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
JonFo said:
I had many of the same symptoms the OP lists, however, they totally went away when I added a class C multiswitch to the mix. Never seen a 771 in the last two weeks. Using the sequence above, could not reproduce the problem either after a few tries.
You have a link to this class C multiswitch? And I thought that only the Zinwell 6x8 or 6x16 switches could be used with the AT9 because of KA sats.
 

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Mentor
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btmoore said:
I will bypass my Zinwell 6x8 and run the script.

I have no doubt that my script putting a load on the tuners and switches. My system and cabling is in complete spec, ~80 ft solid copper rg6, with compression connectors, no splices, into the zinwell switch and then the BBC which connect to the hr20.

If this clean configuration taxes the infrastructure, then D* may need to provide better switching equipment.

I will get back with what happens.

Also I noticed that you are on the east coast so you likely do not have the latest code. I have only tested this script on the 0xeb. I don't know what would happen on prior versions such as your code.
I'm sure that 80' plus the BBC's are taxing your receivers ability to switch both multiswitches (the one in the dish + the zimwell).

As for the version of the code, my improvement has occured with the same release the (the 10/21 version) as was showing all the issues prior to using the Spaun to power the dish.

Look forward to your experiment to bypass the zimwell. But would suspect that the HR20 is deficient in amperage to consitently switch anythign more than 30' downstream.
 

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Cutting Edge: ECHELON '07
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9,809 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
bonscott87 said:
You have a link to this class C multiswitch? And I thought that only the Zinwell 6x8 or 6x16 switches could be used with the AT9 because of KA sats.
Nevermind, I see your other thread and I see you're running the non HR20's with the powered switch. Interesting....

And my cable runs are about 80 feet or so, one is about 120.
 

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Hall Of Fame
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JonFo said:
the zimwell. But would suspect that the HR20 is deficient in amperage to consitently switch anythign more than 30' downstream.
I just tried to do the test but the interactive feature is down right now, I assume because of ST.

If you are correct that would be disappointing as my cabling and equipment is within D* specs and 30' is a ridiculously short distance. I lack the background on how the passive MS work, would having more devices attached to the MS help or have no impact?
 

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I used to be a rocket scientist
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But would suspect that the HR20 is deficient in amperage to consitently switch anythign more than 30' downstream.
I think you're underestimating the basic HR20 design (though I don't doubt there are units that perform both below and above spec). I have a total of perhaps 60' between my HR20, the Zinwell, the grounding block and my dish and no problems with the 771 error (and my BBCs are both installed).
 

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Mentor
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bonscott87 said:
Nevermind, I see your other thread and I see you're running the non HR20's with the powered switch. Interesting....

And my cable runs are about 80 feet or so, one is about 120.
Spaun now has wideband switches, a 12 port and a 16 port.
http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=WBS41202NF

Remember to also order the power adapter that goes with. Unlike the older series (like the 5802) these new ones do not have integrated power adapters.

A cheaper solution to test is to order the Sonoma power locker and use it between the zimwell and the dish. That way the HR20's and other receivers have only one mechanical switch to drive.
But if you want years of trouble-free performance (no stuck switches on port x in the multi) an electronic switch like the Spaun's is recommended.

To address the question of amperage, one would have to actually measure switching performance and do a line chart of amperage and voltage on the wire while switching. I have no doubt many HR20's can handle a switch, a good length of wire and the dish. However, from reports here and personal experience, if people are having difficulties as described in this thread, then supplementary power should be something to look into.

To me, the fact that supplementary power removes the heat load from the DVR's is not just icing on the cake; it's possibly an additional contributor to increased stability.

The HR20 is a computer, and computers hate heat, and like most computers, will glitch if the power supply is taxed.
 
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