[430970]

Yay. The guys are here, and they speak (slightly accented) English. Appointment was from 8-12, and they showed up at 8:43. That in itself is a miracle.

I directed them to park in my alley (there's a parking spot where they can work), showed them where I wanted the dish mounted and they got to work assembling the dish.

I have a central wiring closet, and they didn't balk at re-using the existing wiring from the roof (through in-wall conduit) to the machine room, or the wiring from the machine room to the receiver location (in my media room). And I disconnected my old receiver, but left the HDMI cable, coax and phone cable in place. Also even easier for them. Probably they're happy just to have almost no wiring for them.

I also wanted the dish mounted on the roof, in a particular area, and they were fine with that (I have a chimney-mounted dish, but that wasn't going to work for the Slimline + monopoles).

I also greased the wheels a little bit (hint: promise $$$) so they'd take my old OTA antennas (which have given me a bunch of unfortunate grief lately and wife wants them gone) and hopefully keep things clean and nicely sealed up there. They were clearly ready to do a roof install because they've got Bishop's tape and other complete-coverage seal ready for the dish foot and the monopoles. Wonder if it's some kind of standard kit that Ironwood gives installers in the rainy city here.

So far, pleasantly surprised.

 

[430970]

Update: They brought an HR22! Wow. That's doubly-exciting!

 

[430970]

And wow, we're done. In under 1.5 hours.

The roof install looks great - they cleaned up my old dish and antennas and put the dish in a location slightly better than where I had thought (it's more hidden from the front of the house).

If I were more forward thinking I would have figured out a way to have a roofer here to do the whole Commdeck thing, but what they did looks pretty good seal-wise. Plus the monopoles should improve my reception during windy times (my previous chimney mount 3LNB was prone to moving in the wind). If I ever re-roof I'll just get rid of the two pipes that carry the cables and replace it with a Commdeck (re-routing the cables from the attic through the Commdeck and then to the dish, instead of through the pipe and then over to the dish). But that's a while from now.

I've only got two TVs so they didn't use a Zinwell switch at all, just barrel connectors between the 4 cables coming from the roof and the 4 out-bound cables to the rooms with the TVs (in my case right now just the bedroom and our media room).

And yes, I verified the HD channels (HBO, Showtime, locals) from the satellite. And I saw them install the BBCs. I need to call and change my package to get the HD access added for other HD channels.

Overall, very impressed. I think it helped I was prepared and they had to do almost no cabling. The only cabling they did was from the dish to the existing cables on my roof. They even cut off the old connectors and re-did them in a much nicer looking fashion (having taken a look at them it's clear my old installers did only an "OK" job).

+1 for Ironwood in Seattle.

 

[430970]

Quick question about satellite strengths, since i'm new to the 5lnb world. First - all the HD channels (including Seattle locals - ABC, NBC, CBS & FOX) appear to be coming in fine.

1. Satellite strengths for 101, 110, 119, 99c and 103c are all 80s and 90s. There is an occasional 0, but I'm assuming that's something at the satellite level (like a transponder not active kind of thing), right? Are these the satellites for all the national channels, including MPEG-4 HD)?

2. 99(s) has three transponders with readings in the high 90s and otherwise all 0s. Is that OK?

3. 103(s) has six transponders with readings 92, 74, 78, 93, 96 & 36 but otherwise all 0s. Is that OK? That 36 kind of scares me.

 

[houskamp]

Quick question about satellite strengths, since i'm new to the 5lnb world. First - all the HD channels (including Seattle locals - ABC, NBC, CBS & FOX) appear to be coming in fine.

1. Satellite strengths for 101, 110, 119, 99c and 103c are all 80s and 90s. There is an occasional 0, but I'm assuming that's something at the satellite level (like a transponder not active kind of thing), right? Are these the satellites for all the national channels, including MPEG-4 HD)?

2. 99(s) has three transponders with readings in the high 90s and otherwise all 0s. Is that OK?

3. 103(s) has six transponders with readings 92, 74, 78, 93, 96 & 36 but otherwise all 0s. Is that OK? That 36 kind of scares me.

Sounds good.. the "S" ones are spotbeams and you won't get all trasponders on them..

 

[430970]

Sounds good.. the "S" ones are spotbeams and you won't get all trasponders on them..

I pretty much figured that as I was writing the post... But what about that 36? Is that anything to care about or is that a spotbeam for, say, Portland, that I'm somehow getting?

Any way to tell from the transponder which channel that would correspond to?

Also - any quick way to get all my season passes set up? I had about 30 on my HR10. I know the double-record button, but I still have to go through each channel, and each day... blech.

 

[texasbrit]

I pretty much figured that as I was writing the post... But what about that 36? Is that anything to care about or is that a spotbeam for, say, Portland, that I'm somehow getting?

Any way to tell from the transponder which channel that would correspond to?

Also - any quick way to get all my season passes set up? I had about 30 on my HR10. I know the double-record button, but I still have to go through each channel, and each day... blech.

As houskamp says, all the 99s and 103s transponders are spotbeams and so you will see zero or low signals on many of them. Probably only two of the transponders are for you (on 99s as far as I know), the rest are for other cities. Here in DFW I have 100 and 97 on "my" transponders on 103s, and my other 99s/103s signals vary from zero through the 20s, 30s and 40s, a couple of 70s and several 80s/90s.
The spotbeams I see that are not "mine" are probably from Tyler, Oklahoma City, Tulsa, Austin, Waco, Houston and other cities where I just happen to be inside the spotbeams.

 

[430970]

Excellent/Thank you.

 

[1948GG]

Quick question about satellite strengths, since i'm new to the 5lnb world. First - all the HD channels (including Seattle locals - ABC, NBC, CBS & FOX) appear to be coming in fine.

1. Satellite strengths for 101, 110, 119, 99c and 103c are all 80s and 90s. There is an occasional 0, but I'm assuming that's something at the satellite level (like a transponder not active kind of thing), right? Are these the satellites for all the national channels, including MPEG-4 HD)?

2. 99(s) has three transponders with readings in the high 90s and otherwise all 0s. Is that OK?

3. 103(s) has six transponders with readings 92, 74, 78, 93, 96 & 36 but otherwise all 0s. Is that OK? That 36 kind of scares me.

The 99(s), fron Spaceway2 at 99deg, are the Seattle HD locals. Transponders 2/4/6, and should be at or near 100. (Whip out your hot dogs for microwave cooking!) Your SD locals remain, of course, on 101 transponders 18/28 (at or near 100)

A good thing alignment wise to keep your eyes on are the 99(s) transonders 1/3/5, those are Spokane, should be way down in the 20-30's or so, IF the alignment is 'spot on'.

There are no Spaceway1 (103s) beams near us, the transponders 1-6 on that screen. The 15-24 on both the 99s and 103s are the spot beams from the DirecTV10 and 11, and the readings you get off DirecTV10 (103s) in the 15-24 region appear to be 'spillovers' from how that sat is set up.

I used to have an ID on what transponder Portland, OR, used, but that was last summer (2007, confirmed with my RV) but things have moved and I kinda lost track. (was on Spaceway1/103).

Of course, all the 99/103 sats are Ka (18Ghz), with slightly different bands on the Spaceways v. DirecTV10/11, and a bit different allocations spot beams wise, and of course all the 'old' SD stuff on 101/110/119 are Ku/DBS band (12Ghz).

IF your dish is well aligned, you'll notice that rain fade wise, you'll loose the Ku/DBS (even the spot beams) BEFORE you loose the Ka/HD Locals. That's the 'true test' of excellent alignment. You'll also note that the 'center' LNB throat (that has the 99/101/103 lnb's behind it) has a little 'porch' over it. Interesting design, as the other LNB's (110/119) don't have it.

The first good sticky snow you get (1-2 times a winter) you'll note that the readings off 110/119 will be the 'first to go' due to snow/ice sticking on the plastic cover and blocking the microwaves; that little' porch' on the 99/101/103 LNB really helps keep the snow/ice from building up on it in the really lite stuff.

If your dish is, like you described, up on the roof fairly inaccessible (ladder and what not needed), get yourself one of those 'super-soaker' spray guns from a toy store. It'll come in handy (loaded up with some warm water) for those handful of times this winter when old man winter dusts your dish with the fluffy stuff. A few quick shots will hit the LNB's, and get rid of the snow that 'deforms' the dish reflecting surface.

That should do it.

 

[bobnielsen]

I'm pretty sure all of the Seattle locals (KOMO, KING, KIRO, KCPQ and KMYQ) are on the same transponder. When the locals first went up, there was only one of the 99(s) transponders in the high 90s. KMYQ was added when FSNNW moved to a CONUS beam. Since Directv puts up to 5 HD channels per transponder, another one will be needed to add any additional channels.

 

[1948GG]

I'm pretty sure all of the Seattle locals (KOMO, KING, KIRO, KCPQ and KMYQ) are on the same transponder. When the locals first went up, there was only one of the 99(s) transponders in the high 90s. KMYQ was added when FSNNW moved to a CONUS beam. Since Directv puts up to 5 HD channels per transponder, another one will be needed to add any additional channels.

You've confusing the bandwidth of DirecTV10/11 with the Spaceways; the Spaceways (using the Ka 'B' band) are much smaller/narrower spectrum wise. They can carry about two HD signals per transponder, not 5.

There used to be a fair spec readout somewhere on this board, but you can go back and drag out the Boeing specs for each sat, it's somewhere out there. Of course, remember that the Spaceways weren't originally designed for TV use, and had to be retrofitted before launch to do so.

So, with the current channel load 'locally' on the HD-LIL, it's 5, spread out over the 3 transponders. Definitely at least space in there for KSTW/11, and maybe KCTS/9 if they 'squeeze' it a bit more (although the 720P channels like ABC and FOX don't take up quite the bandwidth of the 1080i chans like CBS/NBC).

What's interesting is that transponder 3 (Spokane) seems to come and go 'at will', don't know what exactly is going on there, as DirecTV only carries 4 channels in that market. They may be 'testing' carrying some other channel other than the 'big 4'. Who knows

But it comes and goes; early this morning, it was there (99s/3), now it's not.

But it is a 'good test', like I pointed out, as Seattle is 'off target' more than a bit. Any hint of a good shower and they're bouncing off zero.

 

[1948GG]

A lot of this may seem like 'inside baseball' type of information; with the number of folks asking what the reading SHOULD be, why this site doesn't put a 'sticky' with at least an approximate listing is a bit beyond me.

The 99c/103c (c meaning conus, or continental US) or conversely, for the non-DVR set, 99a/103a, should be in the range of 80-90+. If the conus signals are up at the top, the spot beams (99s/103s or 99b/103b) sigs will be right there. AND, the local-into-local (LIL) HD spots should be bouncing off 100 (98++).

Every little bit helps. The bottom 'brick wall' of signal lock loss (due to rain, snow, etc.) with the Ku/DBS signals is in the low 30's; with the Ka, in the high 30's/low 40's. But the power budget for the Ka's is more expansive, a lot more power coming off those new Ka sats.

If it's a bit less, it probably won't under most circumstances mean a whole heck of a lot come the first big snow, probably not with any large scale rain storm either.

 

[430970]

This was totally helpful, in a really geeky, my wife couldn't care less, kind of way.

I have some huge trees (75+ ft) southeast from my house, but had no problem with reception with the 3LNB. The new dish is slightly higher (different mounting location), but more importantly, is mounted directly to the roof, with the monopoles. Old dish was chimney strapped, and definitely suffered in the heavy rain/wind (as did my OTA antennas). I even had trouble with the MPEG2 HBO and SHO during those heavy rains.

We'll see how it goes this winter for the HD channels. So far everything looks better (transponder wise), but it was nice and sunny today.

If only we could get PBS and CW in HD (especially PBS). I'd be happy.

 

[bobnielsen]

You've confusing the bandwidth of DirecTV10/11 with the Spaceways; the Spaceways (using the Ka 'B' band) are much smaller/narrower spectrum wise. They can carry about two HD signals per transponder, not 5.

There used to be a fair spec readout somewhere on this board, but you can go back and drag out the Boeing specs for each sat, it's somewhere out there. Of course, remember that the Spaceways weren't originally designed for TV use, and had to be retrofitted before launch to do so.

So, with the current channel load 'locally' on the HD-LIL, it's 5, spread out over the 3 transponders. Definitely at least space in there for KSTW/11, and maybe KCTS/9 if they 'squeeze' it a bit more (although the 720P channels like ABC and FOX don't take up quite the bandwidth of the 1080i chans like CBS/NBC).

What's interesting is that transponder 3 (Spokane) seems to come and go 'at will', don't know what exactly is going on there, as DirecTV only carries 4 channels in that market. They may be 'testing' carrying some other channel other than the 'big 4'. Who knows

But it comes and goes; early this morning, it was there (99s/3), now it's not.

But it is a 'good test', like I pointed out, as Seattle is 'off target' more than a bit. Any hint of a good shower and they're bouncing off zero.

Yeah, I did forget although I never have seen any real good description on how they are using the Spaceways (I recall that there is some flexibility in how the transponders are configured, so it may have changed over time). Not that it matters, but the Spaceways use the "A" band and D10/11 use the "B" band (requiring the B band converter).

In any case, the newer satellites are much more complicated than the ones I worked on at Hughes in the mid-1960s

 

[OverThereTooMuch]

A lot of this may seem like 'inside baseball' type of information; with the number of folks asking what the reading SHOULD be, why this site doesn't put a 'sticky' with at least an approximate listing is a bit beyond me.

The 99c/103c (c meaning conus, or continental US) or conversely, for the non-DVR set, 99a/103a, should be in the range of 80-90+. If the conus signals are up at the top, the spot beams (99s/103s or 99b/103b) sigs will be right there. AND, the local-into-local (LIL) HD spots should be bouncing off 100 (98++).

Every little bit helps. The bottom 'brick wall' of signal lock loss (due to rain, snow, etc.) with the Ku/DBS signals is in the low 30's; with the Ka, in the high 30's/low 40's. But the power budget for the Ka's is more expansive, a lot more power coming off those new Ka sats.

If it's a bit less, it probably won't under most circumstances mean a whole heck of a lot come the first big snow, probably not with any large scale rain storm either.

This is great stuff, thanks for posting it here! You should ping one of the moderators to suggest that they put together a FAQ on the signal strength topic. Hundreds of hits when I do a search...I'm glad I searched on something else instead and found your posts! Gave me EXACTLY what I was looking for (and I'm even in the Seattle area).