[hdtvfan0001]

Its "interesting" to see a pattern of a few newbies to this board starting threads or using many of the same terms and/or making the identical statements here on the HR20, including the infamous "Piece of S" or "Piece of C" label.

3 such threads were started by new users (dugmar (user since 12/30/06), islesfan (user since 10/18/06), and mattfro (user since 12/16/06), with 4 others since some time mid-October. The common characteristic of all 6 new memebers here - posts made stating that have had 1 or more problems with the HR20...and based on that, calling it a POS or POC. A couple of others "announced" they are leaving D*TV. In a few cases, only 1 specific problem has resulted in those kinds of statements.

While there is a common frustration being vented, and there is no problem doing so (free country), one has to wonder how this group of the same 6-8 posters, mostly very new, have suddenly appeared for the sole purpose to utter many of the exact same terms / words in their posts - or so it seems. Coincidence? Hmmmmmm....

Perhaps the mods can combine these into one thread (they're easy to spot from their heading). Perhaps one single thread can help narrow down a way to get solutions to some of them.

That's not to diminish or not acknowledge that there are some people who apparently are having 1 or more issues. In the past, some people who had situations had them resolved with a full reset or other recommended help, with no problems since.

It continues to be puzzling and unexplained that while everyone shares the same service, the same box, the same dish, and the same firmware, some folks have such problems while others don't at all. Using simple reasoning, there's got to be more of an explanation to it than "luck".

For the new year (and with the next update coming soon), hopefully all folks get to spend their time productively enjoying their HR20, as opposed to a small contingent spending their time venting.

Best wishes that things work out for everyone. Happy New Year.

 

[paul01463]

Its "interesting" to see a pattern of a few newbies to this board starting threads or using many of the same terms and/or making the identical statements here on the HR20, including the infamous "Piece of S" or "Piece of C" label.

3 such threads were started by new users (dugmar (user since 12/30/06), islesfan (user since 10/18/06), and mattfro (user since 12/16/06), with 4 others since some time mid-October. The common characteristic of all 6 new memebers here - posts made stating that have had 1 or more problems with the HR20...and based on that, calling it a POS or POC. A couple of others "announced" they are leaving D*TV. In a few cases, only 1 specific problem has resulted in those kinds of statements.

While there is a common frustration being vented, and there is no problem doing so (free country), one has to wonder how this group of the same 6-8 posters, mostly very new, have suddenly appeared for the sole purpose to utter many of the exact same terms / words in their posts - or so it seems. Coincidence? Hmmmmmm....

Perhaps the mods can combine these into one thread (they're easy to spot from their heading). Perhaps one single thread can help narrow down a way to get solutions to some of them.

That's not to diminish or not acknowledge that there are some people who apparently are having 1 or more issues. In the past, some people who had situations had them resolved with a full reset or other recommended help, with no problems since.

It continues to be puzzling and unexplained that while everyone shares the same service, the same box, the same dish, and the same firmware, some folks have such problems while others don't at all. Using simple reasoning, there's got to be more of an explanation to it than "luck".

For the new year (and with the next update coming soon), hopefully all folks get to spend their time productively enjoying their HR20, as opposed to a small contingent spending their time venting.

Best wishes that things work out for everyone. Happy New Year.

Excellent post

 

[bret4]

Now you started something. :eek2:

 

[Just J]

I won't address the speculation about new user posts showing a pattern - I'll let someone else

It continues to be puzzling and unexplained that while everyone shares the same service, the same box, the same dish, and the same firmware, some folks have such problems while others don't at all. Using simple reasoning, there's got to be more of an explanation to it than "luck".

I don't find it puzzling at all. As has been explained over and over again, any complicated piece of software is sensitive to how it is used, and can behave very differently depending on the sequence of actions taken by any specific user. So viewing habits (do you bounce back and forth between channels? do you use trick play a lot?), number of series links, number of manual recordings, number of recurring recordings, how -- and how often -- you use the guide, playlist, to do list, and prioritizer -- all of these lead to a unique "state" within the machine for each user.

What we are seeing is evidence that the HR20's hardware and software are "fragile". It is far too easy to stumble across a sequence of actions and conditions that cause it to fail.

There are lots of possibilities as to why. Speculation is meaningless without more data about the underlying operating system and programming language (and compiler) used to create the software. As with most software development, it could range from outright programming errors (such as incorrect pointer usage), poor programming practice (such as failure to free up memory allocated to objects when those objects are no longer needed), poor OS and/or programming tools (such as missing or inadequate garbage collection), or any of a long list of other issues that can bite even experienced and talented programmers if they're not careful and/or if they're using tools that are not up to the task.

For the new year (and with the next update coming soon), hopefully all folks get to spend their time productively enjoying their HR20, as opposed to a small contingent spending their time venting.

Best wishes that things work out for everyone. Happy New Year.

I'm with you there. The holiday period may have slowed deployment of the next release, but it has also provided a wealth of data about the issues that need to be addressed. With luck, over the next few releases (I suspect the very next release may be too far along to fully benefit from all the recent data), D* programmers will be able to make the software more robust and fault tolerant/recoverable.

 

[jheda]

We have to remember that many posters find this site in frustration over hr20 issues, google and find us. Happy users I would think are not googling away looking for answers. That is how i found the site in Sept. So it is a skewed group that we are....

Happy new year to all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[raw6464]

Its "interesting" to see a pattern of a few newbies to this board starting threads or using many of the same terms and/or making the identical statements here on the HR20, including the infamous "Piece of S" or "Piece of C" label.

3 such threads were started by new users (dugmar (user since 12/30/06), islesfan (user since 10/18/06), and mattfro (user since 12/16/06), with 4 others since some time mid-October. The common characteristic of all 6 new memebers here - posts made stating that have had 1 or more problems with the HR20...and based on that, calling it a POS or POC. A couple of others "announced" they are leaving D*TV. In a few cases, only 1 specific problem has resulted in those kinds of statements.

While there is a common frustration being vented, and there is no problem doing so (free country), one has to wonder how this group of the same 6-8 posters, mostly very new, have suddenly appeared for the sole purpose to utter many of the exact same terms / words in their posts - or so it seems. Coincidence? Hmmmmmm....

Perhaps the mods can combine these into one thread (they're easy to spot from their heading). Perhaps one single thread can help narrow down a way to get solutions to some of them.

That's not to diminish or not acknowledge that there are some people who apparently are having 1 or more issues. In the past, some people who had situations had them resolved with a full reset or other recommended help, with no problems since.

It continues to be puzzling and unexplained that while everyone shares the same service, the same box, the same dish, and the same firmware, some folks have such problems while others don't at all. Using simple reasoning, there's got to be more of an explanation to it than "luck".

For the new year (and with the next update coming soon), hopefully all folks get to spend their time productively enjoying their HR20, as opposed to a small contingent spending their time venting.

Best wishes that things work out for everyone. Happy New Year.

Your post has tacit overtones of some sort of "collusion" by less than honest "new" and "suddenly" on the scene posters. Whether that was intended I don't know… but it is there none the less.

It would be very easy to put up a post with similar agenda driven overtones questioning the post of the people praising how great their box performs. But that would not change reality or contribute to the problems at hand.

I'm new and found this forum BECAUSE of the problems I've had with this box. IF the box performed as advertised I would not be here and not have any motivation to post complaints. I've been with D* for 10 years and have never had a reason to join a forum to discuss their services or products.

The number of increased newbies can be explained by the sheer number of people complaining and the number of updates D* has sent down to "fix" the box... many of the issues STILL remain and there is NO light at the end of the tunnel… that I can see? So the dubious intentions of the new and suddenly poster hypothesis really has no significant basis.

I for one don't like to get locked into a 2 year commitment for a service that was not ready for prime time. Albeit I can understand the pressure D* is feeling from the competition in the HDTV delivery market.

Having said that I must say D* CSR has "worked" with me and "accommodating" me to ease the pain. So I'll stay with them… for now.

Happy new year to all.

 

[Wolffpack]

I agree, definitely a conspiracy.

I vote for creating a new H20 forum and everyone posting anything bad about the HR20 create those threads/posts in that forum so the rest of us don't have to bother reading these uncalled for slams against such a fine, well designed piece of equipment. Let's call it "DirecTV HR20 Negative Comments Only".

 

[bwaldron]

I agree, definitely a conspiracy.

Yeah, it's just so obvious.

 

[Tom Robertson]

We have a very interesting dynamic here. Consider:

1. Every day we have either a totally new user joining to express their major issues with the HR20 or we have a long time user who, unfortunately has their first major issue.
2. No one has posted actual percentages of people with or without problems, number of units active, or anything other than surmised "lots", "most" vs. "few" guesses.
3. Yes, the new posters are posting comments others have posted and yet only a very few keep posting the same "rebuttals" that they have posted before.
4. Some of those posting rebuttals go so far as to complain about "tired", "old", "heard before" threads coming from new posters, yet they seem to be ignoring that they themselves are posting "tired", "old", "heard before" rebuttal posts. The newbies have an excuse--it ain't new to them.
5. A number of posters also complain that because someone is having problems, doesn't mean all users are having problems--then apply the same logic that because theirs isn't having problems, "most", "majority", etc. must be good.
6. and there doesn't seem to be a level of users with problems that would be high enough to declare the HR20 being a problem box. Some have suggested that 10% would be high enough, only to be shot down. Others have suggested that where they work 1% would be way too many boxes with problems, yet they too are ignored.

Thankfully, there seems to be a real majority here. Another interesting dynamic, the posters here who just help people with their problems, are sympathetic with those who have problems and those that do not (yet), and brainstorm solutions. We have people like btmoore taking on the enormous challenge to log all the issues since Directv won't publish a list. We have milomindbender2 and brott actively helping Directv feel out users for what is important to us. And there are many others who actively test scenarios to find workarounds or information that will lead to a solid HR20 for everyone.

I almost deleted this posting when I finally realized the real majority here at dbstalk. The very helpful group.

I decided to retitle this post and leave it as it evolved. To celebrate the many helpful people here. Thank you all!

Humbly submitted,
Tom

 

[Wolffpack]

:righton: Celebrate the Majority

 

[thekochs]

You can please some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can never please all the people all the time.

 

[islesfan]

Memo to the secret cabal. Meeting at my place, 11:00, SHARP. Be there, and don't forget the tinfoil hats (it helps the HR20 remain stable throughout the meeting).

Agenda: How to make up some more false claims about the HR20 which will drive the HR20'philes really nuts in the new year.

 

[paul01463]

Memo to the secret cabal. Meeting at my place, 11:00, SHARP. Be there, and don't forget the tinfoil hats (it helps the HR20 remain stable throughout the meeting).

Agenda: How to make up some more false claims about the HR20 which will drive the HR20'philes really nuts in the new year.

Passed coffee through my nose on reading that...

 

[dvelleco]

Memo to the secret cabal. Meeting at my place, 11:00, SHARP. Be there, and don't forget the tinfoil hats (it helps the HR20 remain stable throughout the meeting).

Agenda: How to make up some more false claims about the HR20 which will drive the HR20'philes really nuts in the new year.

LOL :lol:

 

[hdtvfan0001]

Your post has tacit overtones of some sort of "collusion" by less than honest "new" and "suddenly" on the scene posters. Whether that was intended I don't know… but it is there none the less.

In the context of several banned posters who used the exact same terms and tactics recently....if the shoe fits...

I agree, definitely a conspiracy.

Thank you Mr. Stone (Oliver).

Passed coffee through my nose on reading that...

Hope you're OK.....and please....don't sue McDonald's....coffee is supposed to be hot and it says so right on the cup. :lol: :hurah: :lol:

You can please some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can never please all the people all the time.

This actually says it best.

 

[hdtvfan0001]

Memo to the secret cabal. Meeting at my place, 11:00, SHARP. Be there, and don't forget the tinfoil hats (it helps the HR20 remain stable throughout the meeting).

Agenda: How to make up some more false claims about the HR20 which will drive the HR20'philes really nuts in the new year.

BUSTED !!! :eek2: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[harsh]

We have to remember that many posters find this site in frustration over hr20 issues, google and find us. Happy users I would think are not googling away looking for answers. That is how i found the site in Sept. So it is a skewed group that we are....

Googling "HR20 POS" returns "about 2780" links. The top link is to DBSTalk.com.

If you Google HR20, the first listing is Earl's review followed by a bunch of other reviews (some insight into Google, no?).

If you Google HR20 problems, we've been beat out by AVSForum! Must fix that.

We don't even show up for HR20 difficulties.

I'm surprised at the number of people complaining on AVSForum. I'm not at all surprised by the number of people complaining on the DirecTV hosted forums.

 

[houskamp]

anybody even have a count on how many are in service?

 

[harsh]

I think it is pretty easy to spot a whiner:

1. None of the problems are specifically identified (outside of missing features)
2. No specific location (not by itself, but in combination with other factors)
3. Hasn't called DirecTV
4. Isn't going to waste any more time trying to fix the problem

I don't think it is fair to use the low post count without at least a couple other symptoms. For whatever reason, there are quite a few people that are having problems and they're obviously seeking solutions from numerous resources.

 

[harsh]

anybody even have a count on how many are in service?

Between the ones that are in transit and being refurbished, I'd say about 75% of the total production thus far.