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· Cool Member
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I have 3 directv receivers: 1 HR 22-100 and (2) HR20-700. My picture quality is not as good as it used to be; just purchashed a new Sony Bravia HD 46" lcd for MBR and PQ is not as good as Great Room where I have a 6 year old Sony grand Wega. Both TV's are 1080P and i use native resolution setting.
Both rooms are using the HR20-700. Don't use the HR 22-100 very much.

Are these receivers outdated? i am usually able to get free upgrades drom DTV as i have been a customer since the early 1990's.
 

· Legend
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"rjhseven" said:
I have 3 directv receivers: 1 HR 22-100 and (2) HR20-700. My picture quality is not as good as it used to be; just purchashed a new Sony Bravia HD 46" lcd for MBR and PQ is not as good as Great Room where I have a 6 year old Sony grand Wega. Both TV's are 1080P and i use native resolution setting.
Both rooms are using the HR20-700. Don't use the HR 22-100 very much.

Are these receivers outdated? i am usually able to get free upgrades drom DTV as i have been a customer since the early 1990's.
Let us know what they say. A lot of us would like a new HR24.
 

· Cool Member
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rjhseven said:
I have 3 directv receivers: 1 HR 22-100 and (2) HR20-700. My picture quality is not as good as it used to be; just purchashed a new Sony Bravia HD 46" lcd for MBR and PQ is not as good as Great Room where I have a 6 year old Sony grand Wega. Both TV's are 1080P and i use native resolution setting.
Both rooms are using the HR20-700. Don't use the HR 22-100 very much.

Are these receivers outdated? i am usually able to get free upgrades drom DTV as i have been a customer since the early 1990's.
Yes, I think they are outdated. We just had our HR20-700 replaced. It worked great for a very long time and I was reluctant to part with it (I've long been of the "if you get a box that works well, keep it" school), but with the huge software changeover earlier this year it simply could no longer handle it. It took forever to respond to commands, and it had recently started losing recordings and recording schedules. Anyhow, both the telephone tech and the installer said they are trying to phase out and replace all of the HR20s because they know they won't handle the latest software and they are getting a ton of calls from people wanting them replaced. I doubt you'll get any pushback. You will get a new two year commitment (which you get whenever you "upgrade" equipment).

Last week they took out our HR20-700 and one of our H25s and put in an HR34 and an HR24 to go along with our other H25 and HR21.

By the way, I didn't expect it but both my wife and I think the picture is actually sharper with the new HR34 (which went in the HR20's spot with our main TV). Maybe we're imagining it, but I don't think so. It's certain though that you will find the new box to be far more reponsive.

Now if they would just fix the HR34's "caller id every 30 mintues" bug, everything would be set.
 

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You can ask for an "upgraded" receiver all you want but DirecTV can't, and won't, guarantee you'll get one. You may even get the exact same model you have now as a replacement.

The only way to guarantee that you get an HR24 would be to get one from a DirecTV reseller.

You could also try to get DirecTV to upgrade you to an HR34, that way you know you'd get an HR34 since they are different from the HR2X models.
 

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RunnerFL said:
You can ask for an "upgraded" receiver all you want but DirecTV can't, and won't, guarantee you'll get one. You may even get the exact same model you have now as a replacement.

The only way to guarantee that you get an HR24 would be to get one from a DirecTV reseller.

You could also try to get DirecTV to upgrade you to an HR34, that way you know you'd get an HR34 since they are different from the HR2X models.
I don't think that's accurate at least with respect to an HR20. It is my understanding they are phasing them out, so you aren't going to get one as a replacement.

And indeed, I knew exactly what new receivers I was going to be receiving before I got off the phone. It wasn't a "whatever the installer happens to bring with him" situation. It was an HR34 and an HR24, which is exactly what showed up.
 

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Zon2020 said:
I don't think that's accurate at least with respect to an HR20. It is my understanding they are phasing them out, so you aren't going to get one as a replacement.
Incorrect, the HR20 is still considered a "current" model and is being sent out to replace others. You'd most likely get an HR20 to replace an HR20 because of the OTA input.

Zon2020 said:
And indeed, I knew exactly what new receivers I was going to be receiving before I got off the phone. It wasn't a "whatever the installer happens to bring with him" situation. It was an HR34 and an HR24, which is exactly what showed up.
You 1, had an installer show up and 2, upgraded to the "Whole Home Server". Big difference between that and just calling to ask if you can swap your HR20 for an HR24.
 

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RunnerFL said:
Incorrect, the HR20 is still considered a "current" model and is being sent out to replace others. You'd most likely get an HR20 to replace an HR20 because of the OTA input.
Well, that's contrary to what a telephone tech, the retention CSR, and the installer all said. They all indicated that they were getting lots of calls to replace HR20s because they won't handle the latest software, and that they are in fact replacing them. The installer indicated they are going to be replacing all the HR20s. But whatever. . .

RunnerFL said:
You 1, had an installer show up and 2, upgraded to the "Whole Home Server". Big difference between that and just calling to ask if you can swap your HR20 for an HR24.
Yes, I replaced one unit with the whole home server, but the other was a simple upgrade from an H25 to an HDDVR, which could have been any model, but I asked for an HR24, was told I would receive an HR24, and was provided an HR24. I've always known what model I was going to be receiving before they showed up, whether by Fedex or in the hands of an installer.
 

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rjhseven said:
Do you guys think the HR24 would give me a better PQ?
Nope, but if you put an external HDD on that 20-700, you'll see a difference in PQ. I've got eight 20-700s, five that I own and the pictures as good on them as it is on my three 24s. All have 2TB HDDs in them or on them.

Now somebody will come along and disagree with this, but I've seen it with my own eyes. Take a five year old HDD out of a 20-700, stick a new 2TB in it and I've always seen a slight uptick in PQ. Or it might be my imagination...naw, I saw it...several times.

If I can't have 24s, the 20-700s are the next best choice, I think. I'd certainly find a way to get rid of that 22-100.

Rich
 

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Zon2020 said:
Well, that's contrary to what a telephone tech, the retention CSR, and the installer all said. They all indicated that they were getting lots of calls to replace HR20s because they won't handle the latest software, and that they are in fact replacing them. The installer indicated they are going to be replacing all the HR20s. But whatever. . .
Read around here if you don't believe me... They are still sending out HR20's. The only reason they're replacing HR20's with something else is for people with a 3D TV that provide them with a code since the HR20 won't do 3D.

Zon2020 said:
Yes, I replaced one unit with the whole home server, but the other was a simple upgrade from an H25 to an HDDVR, which could have been any model, but I asked for an HR24, was told I would receive an HR24, and was provided an HR24. I've always known what model I was going to be receiving before they showed up, whether by Fedex or in the hands of an installer.
Again, you had an installer and they mostly only carry HR24's on their trucks. The CSR's tell anyone what they want to hear as far as what receiver they'll get but they can't promise anything. If you have a receiver shipped to you then you could get anything.

Here's some light reading on the subject for you:

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=192112&highlight=guarantee

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=197630&highlight=guarantee
 

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Rich said:
Nope, but if you put an external HDD on that 20-700, you'll see a difference in PQ. I've got eight 20-700s, five that I own and the pictures as good on them as it is on my three 24s. All have 2TB HDDs in them or on them.
I personally haven't seen this, don't have an HR20 now, but I have heard of others reporting this. Not sure why it would be the case for sure but I have heard that it happens.
 

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Zon2020 said:
Well, that's contrary to what a telephone tech, the retention CSR, and the installer all said. They all indicated that they were getting lots of calls to replace HR20s because they won't handle the latest software, and that they are in fact replacing them. The installer indicated they are going to be replacing all the HR20s. But whatever. . .
Call up another ''telephone tech" (whatever that is) and another CSR and ask another installer and you'll get different answers. There's nothing wrong with the 20-700s. All mine work very well. Those people will tell you anything to pacify you.

Rich
 

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RunnerFL said:
I personally haven't seen this, don't have an HR20 now, but I have heard of others reporting this. Not sure why it would be the case for sure but I have heard that it happens.
Seems as if the original HDD is "duller" in PQ and putting a new one on/in sharpens the picture. Don't even know if that's possible, but I've seen it. I'd think/guess a five year old HDD wouldn't put out the same PQ as a brand new one.

Rich
 

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Rich said:
Seems as if the original HDD is "duller" in PQ and putting a new one on/in sharpens the picture. Don't even know if that's possible, but I've seen it. I'd think/guess a five year old HDD wouldn't put out the same PQ as a brand new one.

Rich
I'm not so sure the HDD itself makes the difference, after all it's just 0's and 1's. The only way I see it would make a difference is depending upon the enclosure you use for the drive. If it somehow takes some of the I/O processing away from the CPU in the DVR that would/may make a difference. None the less others have reported it so I know it's not just something you're seeing with your unit.
 

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RunnerFL said:
I'm not so sure the HDD itself makes the difference, after all it's just 0's and 1's. The only way I see it would make a difference is depending upon the enclosure you use for the drive. If it somehow takes some of the I/O processing away from the CPU in the DVR that would/may make a difference. None the less others have reported it so I know it's not just something you're seeing with your unit.
Five of my 20-700s have the 2TBs installed internally. Can't be the enclosure. Good thought tho. I've also seen it on externals and your reasoning might be valid for them. I dunno, some of this stuff is way beyond me, I just know what I see.

Rich
 

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The make/model of hdd or enclosure can have no effect on PQ. Unless the hdd or enclosure is defective in some way and causing pixellation or some other artifact. SO I guess I should say it on other words, a properly working HDD and/or enclosure cannot affect PQ in any way whatsoever.
 

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Rich said:
Five of my 20-700s have the 2TBs installed internally. Can't be the enclosure. Good thought tho. I've also seen it on externals and your reasoning might be valid for them. I dunno, some of this stuff is way beyond me, I just know what I see.

Rich
Hmmm, well that would really only leave the drive cache as a possibility. The more the cache the less I/O on the DVRs CPU. Other than that I'm stumped.
 

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rjhseven said:
Do you guys think the HR24 would give me a better PQ?
Speaking as a broadcast Engineer who works closely with digital signals daily, I am absolutely certain it would not. Digital signals, unlike analog signals, are totally and completely impervious to a degradation of PQ. They are not impervious to transmission and reception problems, which can be plagued by macroblocking and stuttering, but this is a completely different issue than PQ. Even if the picture is macroblocking or stuttering, the actual quality of the images, although not displayed properly by the transmission/reception issue as far as the integrity of the signal, is identical to the quality when this is not happening. Its a fine distinction, not always easy to understand.

The PQ is represented in its entirety by a set of binary coefficients once digitized. The only thing that can change that information would be a mathematical operation done on purpose, and that never happens inside a DVR or STB (except when converted to analog for component or composite outputs). From the point that final compression is done at the uplink, the PQ is locked and identical for everyone, for all receivers, for all DVRs. Even DVRs from completely different companies (Tivo and DTV, for example) when receiving the same signal (an OTA station, for example) will produce absolutely identical PQ.

The reason is that no matter what happens to a digital transmission, nothing can reach in and change the numbers of those coefficients, which means nothing can degrade or improve PQ. It is fixed at the uplink, and can't be changed, because those numbers can't be changed, and aren't changed, until after the signal exits the DVR (assuming HDMI) and is inside your TV set.

PQ varies a lot from TV to TV, but that is because the numbers are indeed changed, sometimes by digital processing (but rarely) and always by a conversion back to analog, which happens very early on inside virtually every FP HDTV set. Most HDMI receiver chips have a digital to analog converter chip directly on board expressly for this purpose.

But since the digital information is encapsulated from before the uplink, through the DVR, and all the way into the belly of the TV, no, the PQ is locked in the identical state it was in before it ever leaves the uplink, and your DVR has no opportunity to degrade the signal.

DVRs fail, but digital circuitry fails differently than analog circuitry (which can degrade PQ) and does not ever affect PQ. This is one of the two big reasons why digital is used in the first place, the second being it compresses very easily while analog does not hardly compress at all.

If you have a PQ issue, look elsewhere than the DVR; beyond that point in the signal chain. For any device that handles a digital signal totally within the digital domain, and a DVR is a prime example, PQ transits through that device completely transparently. This includes MPEG decoding, which since it is always an exact reverse of the original encoding, is done exactly the same way in all DVRs, even if the decoding chips come from different companies on opposite sides of the planet. A newer DVR may have a cheaper, better decoder capable of more than the older DVR, but it must decode exactly oppositely of how the signal was encoded, so does that exactly the same.
 

· DaBears
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My guess is you just plugged it in and didn't have it calibrated. Every company has different default settings and many environmental details can change PQ as well. I would get it calibrated or at least find some settings that people have that got it calibrated as a baseline.

For the record HR20's are still recoverable and deploy-able receivers.
 
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