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· Cool Member
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've done alot of reading here but I have not come across a thread about using a slimeline without a SWM so I'm hoping there is someone out there who can shed some more light on this.For now,I will only be hooking up one receiver(HR20-100S).
I'm wondering about the LNB on the slimline itself.Does each of the 4 outputs carry signals from all five sats?
Using 2 of the 4 outputs I go to the BBC and into inputs 1 and 2 on the Hr20 receiver.I'm getting signal on input 1 but not 2,so I'm wondering should I be using a switch or not?
Does a cable less then 50 feet need a power inserter?
Since the rain has brought my signal searching to a hault I will head back to these very informative forums for more research while I wait for your responses.
 

· Godfather
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Each of the 4 outputs of the dish can send any signal you'll need. You only need a multiswitch if you have more than 4 tuners. The way you have it connected should work. I would swap the BBCs and see if the issue is still with input 2. If it is, then swap the cables at the receiver and see if the issue is still with input 2. At the point the issue moves to input 1, whatever you moved will identify the issue. If after all that, the issue is still with tuner 2, you may have a receiver issue.

FYI, the B tuner cable needed to be connected to the receiver on start up. If you connected the 2nd cable after the receiver was powered on, restart the receiver.
 

· Hall Of Fame
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Batem said:
I'm wondering about the LNB on the slimline itself.Does each of the 4 outputs carry signals from all five sats?
yes

Batem said:
Using 2 of the 4 outputs I go to the BBC and into inputs 1 and 2 on the Hr20 receiver.I'm getting signal on input 1 but not 2,so I'm wondering should I be using a switch or not?
No switch needed. Have you tried rebooting. swapping cables between inputs. swapped BBCs. Check connectors.

Batem said:
Does a cable less then 50 feet need a power inserter?
no
 

· Premium Member
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each of the four outputs are the same [this is a multi-switch built in to the dish].
Dish -> BBC--> receiver.
If you're having problems with a tuner, swap cable, reboot, swap BBC, reboot and test your levels between each reboot. If it always stays on the same tuner, then it isn't the cables, dish, BBCs. If it does swap, then you can see which one is bad.
 

· Cool Member
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Thanks guys I will try what you have suggested when this rain stops.
This is by far the most complicated dish I have ever tried to install and this forum has been the one thing that keeps me moving forward.
 

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Batem said:
Thanks guys I will try what you have suggested when this rain stops.
This is by far the most complicated dish I have ever tried to install and this forum has been the one thing that keeps me moving forward.
Actually, once you assemble the first one correctly with the tilt ring bolt nuts facing outward :)) ), and then study what a great improvement the dish mount is over previous designs, you'll probably come to appreciate the fact that when you slide the pre-set assembly smoothly onto an exactly 2", perfectly plumb mast ("thunk"), you can find the 101 every time with just a swing of the dish. Subsequent fine alignment is far superior to the wobbly older dishes. It is a bit heavy and cumbersome compared to those, however, if you have to lug it up a ladder. :eek2:
 

· Cool Member
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Well,after hooking the connections up properly it only took seconds to find signal.After peaking the signal satellite 101 had alot at 100% but 103c was only in the 70's so I gave a little up on 101 to get 103c into the 80's.
I could frig for days but the fact of the matter,when you line up 5lnb's on the same dish you are going to take from one sat and give to another everytime you move the dish.
A big thank you to this forum and all the people who are willing to give advice to those in need of help.Without you guys I doubt I ever tackle this alignment.
 

· Godfather
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K4SMX said:
Actually, once you assemble the first one correctly with the tilt ring bolt nuts facing outward :)) ), and then study what a great improvement the dish mount is over previous designs, you'll probably come to appreciate the fact that when you slide the pre-set assembly smoothly onto an exactly 2", perfectly plumb mast ("thunk"), you can find the 101 every time with just a swing of the dish. Subsequent fine alignment is far superior to the wobbly older dishes.
I agree completely. The complexity of aiming a Slimline is WAY OVERBLOWN. About a month ago, having never owned a satellite system, I completely pulled all the cables, installed the Slimline on a brick chimney and aimed it with absolutely no problems. All you're doing is aiming at a point in space (the 101 sat) and adjusting the tilt to pick up the 119 sat. Your dish "paints a line" in the sky and you're simply moving that line so that it passes through two points in space...the 101 and the 119 satellites, period. Any adjustment you make will move the whole "line", so you have to just "zero-in" on the optimum position. I think this is the aspect that frustrates people but it really shouldn't.

Additionally, aside from initially locating the 101, I think the "plumbness" issue has been blown way out of proportion. I'd venture to say that, with the proper magnetic azimuth and elevation information, I can hold the dish in my arms and "find" the 101.
 

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Tiger62 said:
Additionally, aside from initially locating the 101, I think the "plumbness" issue has been blown way out of proportion. I'd venture to say that, with the proper magnetic azimuth and elevation information, I can hold the dish in my arms and "find" the 101.
I'm glad you brought this up. While a plumb mast will make the "baseline" settings closer to a "drop & play", with the up/down, right/left, & tilt adjustments, there is a fair amount "of play" to compensate & I'd venture a guess that the mast could be 10 degrees off, in any direction, anywhere, and could still be adjusted to the same levels, if one just took the time and understood what each adjustment really did.
 

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Ten degrees? While theoretically possible, aligning a dish which is not on a plumb mast is an exercise in frustration, because every time you move one axis you are simultaneously moving the other two by unknown amounts.

As a practical matter, no one's going to spend the time to do that, so what you get with an out-of-plumb mast is less than optimal signals on some satellites. If you were actually ten degrees off plumb, depending on the direction, it might take you quite a while just to find the 101 so that you could then proceed to pull out the rest of your hair trying to get it properly aligned.

Why bother with all that? Just like in aviation, "Good approaches make good landings."
 

· Godfather
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K4SMX said:
...every time you move one axis you are simultaneously moving the other two by unknown amounts.
That's true no matter WHAT coordinate system you're using. That "point in space" (the 101) doesn't care what you call X and Y. And once you're pointing at the 101, the 119 doesn't care what your "tilt" reading actually is. You're just rotating that "line in the sky" around the 101 "point".
 

· Premium Member
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I knew this was going to happen.
Yes, a plumb mast makes life easier, but it isn't a show stopper [like a missed approach].
While it's not a true three axis trim, there are adjustments that fundamentally compensate for it. [again] it does help to have a good understanding of what/how each adjustment works.
 

· Icon
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I really like the plumb mast approach... When I saw my installer pull out his level, I took that as a very good sign (granted it should be standard procedure, but when I saw it, it made me happy). My old dish, which can be seen in this picture, was mounted on my pseudo-chimmney... The wood used does nothing more than hide the flue inside... It is barely structural and not only moves quite a bit in wind, but is subject to quite a bit of warping... Several times I've had to tighten/lengthen the lags, which barely bit the old/soft wood.

I was very happy to see the new dish get mounted on the roof, in a place that is easy to access.
 

· Godfather
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Praise the Lord for diversity. It makes the world such an interesting place. Here we have the clash of the plumb vs the unplumb schools of thought (again).

All the plumbers should concede to the unplumbers now that it is absolutely possible to mount the dish mast at any angle within the dish adjustment limits and get a perfectly good signal. Unplumbers, aka the WTF school, are the free thinkers among us as they cast aside instructions, experience and the meaning of those cute little number scales on the dish. They love a challenge, God bless them.

Me, I prefer the dullish and conservative plumb school of thought. The extra 10 or 15 minutes getting the mast carpenter plumb pays off. I like presetting the elevation and tilt on the ground, approximate as they might be. I like plopping the dish on the mast, nudge-nudge-nudge, ah! 101, first time. I like adjusting tilt for 119 knowing there will be virtually no change to 101. (101 LNB is not moving in a small circle as I change tilt.) Now when I have 101/119, tune new fangled Ka/Ku meter to 103 and tweek left, tweek right, tweek up, tweek down. Ah! 103. Lock 'em all down. 10 minutes or less.

Now, you unplumbers, please don't corrupt the minds of the more disadvantaged among us who do not have signal meters. There could be health issues as there is the risk of untold number of heart attacks by causing them to go up and down the ladder so many times to read their signals from the TV. Also, think of the harm to their kid's vocabulary with all the four letter words they'll hear.
 
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