[delfuego]

Since my box downloaded 0x10b, I've had the BSB every single day -- really, every single day -- and I'm now pretty fed up. So I decided to call in to DTV today to ask what can be done to give me back my watchable TV, and was kicked up the ladder to the "advanced tech group" who said the only thing that can be done is replace my receiver... which will likely have the exact same version of the operating system, and the same concomitant problems, all the while forcing me to lose all the shows I've recorded and have to reprogram all my season passes and whatnot.

I seriously can't believe that this is the level of support they're giving to this box... I've been pretty patient so far, but this might force me out the DTV door.

 

[hasan]

Since my box downloaded 0x10b, I've had the BSB every single day -- really, every single day -- and I'm now pretty fed up. So I decided to call in to DTV today to ask what can be done to give me back my watchable TV, and was kicked up the ladder to the "advanced tech group" who said the only thing that can be done is replace my receiver... which will likely have the exact same version of the operating system, and the same concomitant problems, all the while forcing me to lose all the shows I've recorded and have to reprogram all my season passes and whatnot.

I seriously can't believe that this is the level of support they're giving to this box... I've been pretty patient so far, but this might force me out the DTV door.

You might try the forced download tonight between 10 pm central and....I can't recall. A new version of firmware is available 0x115.

If it were my box (while I was waiting for the new box), I'd do a full format (Menu > Help & Settings > Setup > Reset > Reset All) and then download the new firmware. You only have a 2 hour window or so to do it this evening, otherwise you'll have to wait until it's released nationally...this is a sort of beta test.

WARNING:

You lose all your settings and recordings if you do a full format. You don't lose anything by upgrading your firmware (during the window tonight)....other than your guide data, which will rebuild on it's own.

 

[delfuego]

You might try the forced download tonight between 10 pm central and....I can't recall. A new version of firmware is available 0x115.

I've thought about that, except for the HUGE caveat that by doing so, I cannot call into the customer support group at all anymore. Which is almost as frustrating to me as everything else -- I'm essentially in the position where if I want to try to solve my problem, I have to be willing to give up all normal channels of support.

I'm happy to see that DTV is willing to try to get its prerelease software in the hands of users, but it's ridiculous that doing so means that you agree to give up "real" support... I mean, hell, it's pretty much true that all us HR20 users are already using prerelease hardware, so why should the software be any different? The whole thing's just a totally ****ty position for DTV to put its customers in...

 

[houskamp]

You can always go back to 10B after the window..

 

[Milkman]

I'm happy to see that DTV is willing to try to get its prerelease software in the hands of users, but it's ridiculous that doing so means that you agree to give up "real" support.

OK, Let me go on record by first saying that I believe DTV has rushed the HR-20, and I think it is piss poor that their ACTUAL RELEASES (i.e. 0x10b) are really still far from a finished product, and I feel that NONE of us should have had to pay for our HD DVR (and I know many didn't, but I unfortuantely did as well as many others).

I wanted to address your quote above though. This is really a standard process in the beta industry. If you want support you have to stay on the supported product. If you want to help a company Beta test something, you do it on your own, and report any problems in the specified manner.

 

[Doug Brott]

Since my box downloaded 0x10b, I've had the BSB every single day -- really, every single day -- and I'm now pretty fed up.

One person has noted the Black Screen Bug on 0x115, but right now it is your best shot.

By observation, it seemed that a great many folks who were experiencing the BSB on a regular basis had their system tuned to ESPN-HD or another MPEG-2HD program overnight and it was locked up in the morning. It didn't seem to be a solve-all, but the following things seemed to help minimize the effects of the BSB:

From my observations, the following things exacerbate the problem:

- Leaving the unit in standby overnight

- Leaving the unit tuned to a Sunday Ticket Channel long after it is removed from the guide

- Leaving the unit tuned to certain OTA channels overnight

There are other cases in which this situation appears to occur while you are simply changing channels. This appearance may be due to the fact that you are watching MPEG4 channels and at the point you change to an MPEG2 channel (either HD or SD), then the MPEG2 channels are black while the MPEG4 channels work fine.

I almost always leave the units on (not in standby) and also almost always leave them tuned to an MPEG4 channel overnight. I've had 2 BSBs hit.

Again, I suspect that this problem will be fixed soon, but I would suggest to everyone that is experiencing this problem with some degree of frequency to be a little proactive and try to find a scenario that keeps your system running overnight. Not the best situation, but its all we have.

 

[Earl Bonovich]

I'm happy to see that DTV is willing to try to get its prerelease software in the hands of users, but it's ridiculous that doing so means that you agree to give up "real" support... I mean, hell, it's pretty much true that all us HR20 users are already using prerelease hardware, so why should the software be any different? The whole thing's just a totally ****ty position for DTV to put its customers in...

The ENTIRE reason on why you can't call the CSR's if you download a release candidate... is simply... they don't have have the details on the new version to help you. In other words... if you call, you are just going to be spinning your wheels...

Not uncommon to just about all other release candidates out there.
Most of them... you are on your own, or have to rely on Newsgroups/Forums.

If it is "really" a hardware problem... then yes... you can call and have the unit replaced, as there is NOTHING that can be done on a phone to help you fix a true hardware problem.

If it is a software problem, then... there is still little a CSR can do to help you... Especially if you are on a software version, they don't have any information on nor have had any training on.

And you don't give up "support" for ever... once the release goes national... feel free to call them.

 

[amallon]

delfuego, I'm not sure what you hoped to accomplish by calling customer support. The BSB is a software defect that can only be fixed by a new software release. Unfortunately, your only real options right now are to either wait until a new software release fixes the problem, cancel D* and switch to cable, or stop using the HR20.

Any "solutions" that customer support can offer you are just placebos until the problem is fixed. You will more than likely experience the BSB bug with a replacement unit, unless there's a new software release by the time the new unit arrives.

 

[linuxworks]

I've thought about that, except for the HUGE caveat that by doing so, I cannot call into the customer support group at all anymore. Which is almost as frustrating to me as everything else -- I'm essentially in the position where if I want to try to solve my problem, I have to be willing to give up all normal channels of support.

I'm happy to see that DTV is willing to try to get its prerelease software in the hands of users, but it's ridiculous that doing so means that you agree to give up "real" support... I mean, hell, it's pretty much true that all us HR20 users are already using prerelease hardware, so why should the software be any different? The whole thing's just a totally ****ty position for DTV to put its customers in...

what a minute - let me get this straight. you're saying that if you volunteer to take on a new test image to help everyone get to a more stable platform faster - they DENY you tech support? uhh, did I hear that correctly? ie, there's no gold level support for the volunteers who are trying to live thru these growing pains DTV is doing to us?

say it aint so!

(now if you had hacked an image of your own, FINE - deny tech support till the cows come home. but if you are trying to test THEIR image - huh - no TS if you do that?)

my jaw just dropped.

 

[linuxworks]

The ENTIRE reason on why you can't call the CSR's if you download a release candidate... is simply... they don't have have the details on the new version to help you. In other words... if you call, you are just going to be spinning your wheels...

how about the other side of it - reporting status and details TO dtv?

Not uncommon to just about all other release candidates out there.
Most of them... you are on your own, or have to rely on Newsgroups/Forums.

that is NOT a way to run a beta test program. I think we all know that.

beta test is feedback and goes both ways. both parties help out and receive something from the deal. I have NEVER heard of a company (that claims to value their customers) release beta code with ZERO support. who else (as a significant company) does such a thing? I'm curious.

maybe the world has gotton worse while I wasn't looking..

 

[Earl Bonovich]

what a minute - let me get this straight. you're saying that if you volunteer to take on a new test image to help everyone get to a more stable platform faster - they DENY you tech support? uhh, did I hear that correctly? ie, there's no gold level support for the volunteers who are trying to live thru these growing pains DTV is doing to us?

say it aint so!

No, they won't "deny" you support.

They simply don't have the information on the CSR tier, to help you with problems related to the release candidate. You can call... say you have 0x115... and well... that would be it... they don't have the information specific to the release. You would be waisting your time, as well as the DirecTV CSRs... plain and simple.

This is a RELEASE CANDIDATE... this is not a national release.. basically.. it is a beta version. And as with pretty much all companies... if you are working with a pre-release, release candidate, what ever name you want to put on it... The customer service tier is not trained and updated on that version.

No different here.

So, then YES... if you are willing to try the release candidate. Until the release goes national... the internet is your resource. If you don't like that... don't force the download. Very simple.

The 0x115 will not auto-install on the unit.
You can't "accidentally" get it... the only way to get it, is to force the software update.

 

[litzdog911]

what a minute - let me get this straight. you're saying that if you volunteer to take on a new test image to help everyone get to a more stable platform faster - they DENY you tech support? uhh, did I hear that correctly? ie, there's no gold level support for the volunteers who are trying to live thru these growing pains DTV is doing to us?

say it aint so!

(now if you had hacked an image of your own, FINE - deny tech support till the cows come home. but if you are trying to test THEIR image - huh - no TS if you do that?)

my jaw just dropped.

That's pretty much true. You get your support right here. And it's probably better than you'll get from DirecTV's typical CSRs anyway.

 

[Dave_S]

<snip>... "advanced tech group" who said the only thing that can be done is replace my receiver... which will likely have the exact same version of the operating system, and the same concomitant problems, all the while forcing me to lose all the shows I've recorded and have to reprogram all my season passes and whatnot.

Delfuego,
Just a comment - I have three of these boxes, and all three have had different results so far. Two have had little or no problems, one I had to do a complete re-format. Just bringing it up, because a new box may help your situation.

 

[linuxworks]

That's pretty much true. You get your support right here. And it's probably better than you'll get from DirecTV's typical CSRs anyway.

no disagreement there! I see HUGE amounts of serious expertise here in the short time I've been on this forum.

and yes, that's par for the course - you often do get better TS info from web forums than actual call center employees

when I called in, yesterday, to cancel my service - I had to go to level1 TS and then to level2 (before she got annoyed at me and hung up on me!). then I called back, did the whole thing again but jumped a bit quicker to level2 and got someone a bit more sympathetic, this time.

when the first L2 tech kept suggesting that I was not willing to cooperate by not accepting 'an occasional lost recording' and having to do partial or full resets on a frequent basis - she was thru with me. that's, uhh, when the phone somehow got disconnected. its really amazing how unreliable the phones are, I guess. (did DTV make the phone system, too?)

when I suggested that I get a swap to an hr10, the L1 guy said only the L2 guys could do it, but it COULD be done. if THEY wanted to. but I guess her highness didn't really agree [grin]. I never could figure a way to get an hr10 from them - so my only other option was to cancel.

but for a while, I was lead on to believe there was -some- hope for an HR10. (ok guys, you can stop laughing now).

 

[Earl Bonovich]

how about the other side of it - reporting status and details TO dtv?

If you read the comments, in the "announcement"
The DirecTV folks DO read the comments reported, here... posting them in the issue thread... is just as good as calling DirecTV..

And again... the ISSUE, is about the CSR tier... not knowing anything about the version. Calling them simply will do you no good.

that is NOT a way to run a beta test program. I think we all know that.

beta test is feedback and goes both ways. both parties help out and receive something from the deal. I have NEVER heard of a company (that claims to value their customers) release beta code with ZERO support. who else (as a significant company) does such a thing? I'm curious.

maybe the world has gotton worse while I wasn't looking..

Your right... this is not the way to run a beta test program.
As it isn't a Beta Test Program...... It is not a formal elaborate beta test program... plain and simple.

It is an opportunity to obtain a Release Candidate.
And from all the Release Candidates I have had access too (for all sorts of products), this is nearly identical to how they are run.

 

[Sharkie_Fan]

That's pretty much true. You get your support right here. And it's probably better than you'll get from DirecTV's typical CSRs anyway.

Probably? How bout most definately.

And as has been pointed out, if you force the download and it blows chunks completely, and you're just DYING to take minutes off your life by talking to a CSR at Directv, you can force another download after the window has closed and it will reinstall the current national release (10b). Then you can go round and round with the CSRs at DirecTV until the cows come home. Or until you've had all that you can take and throw yourself off the nearest tall object....

(no offense to any of you who are D* CSRs. I've been fortunate enough to have a few good ones. I've also had the misfortune of speaking to some who tried my patience.)

 

[linuxworks]

No, they won't "deny" you support.

They simply don't have the information on the CSR tier, to help you with problems related to the release candidate. You can call... say you have 0x115... and well... that would be it... they don't have the information specific to the release. You would be waisting your time, as well as the DirecTV CSRs... plain and simple.

so there is no status or 'debug data' they could gather from you?

man, when I put test images out in the field, I 'instrument' them and I LOVE to scoop up the results and analyze them. you tellin' me they just don't CARE about instrumenting test code and collecting the printfs'??

 

[Earl Bonovich]

so there is no status or 'debug data' they could gather from you?

man, when I put test images out in the field, I 'instrument' them and I LOVE to scoop up the results and analyze them. you tellin' me they just don't CARE about instrumenting test code and collecting the printfs'??

Nope... there is no "status" or debugging data they you can access from the GUI. So there is nothing you could "give" the CSR tier if you called.

One of the problems with a unit like this, is resources.
If you, run some sort of data gatherer in the background... it takes up resources... which could lead to other issues...

So while it would be "optimal" if there was some sort of dump log, or other sort of mechanism... simply is there on the consumer level.

 

[linuxworks]

Your right... this is not the way to run a beta test program.
As it isn't a Beta Test Program...... It is not a formal elaborate beta test program... plain and simple.

It is an opportunity to obtain a Release Candidate.
And from all the Release Candidates I have had access too (for all sorts of products), this is nearly identical to how they are run.

alright - you have a point.

I see the 'throw it over the wall' type of RC as applying to toys and stupid things (LOL). if your mp3 player locks up, well, go buy another one or something. but dvr's aren't cheap, they aren't a simple thing to just repurchase (etc) and given the current bad situation of their software, they should be staffing UP to support a real beta program (for those willing to commit to time on the phone or even allow remote net or 'console' (if there is one) access).

I suppose if you label it as 'use at your own damned risk' or to that effect, all bets are off. my point is that this is NO way to run a serious business. its fine for disposable mp3 players and MAYBE for things like cameras (a next step up). but dvr's are a step or two up. they should really be staffing up on development and even create a special tiger-team (as they call it at some companies) to get to the bottom of this mess.

perhaps a RC that has no support, but there SHOULD be another level where there's more committment from both sides and a more direct line to support for that level of customer.

 

[Earl Bonovich]

But they are "throwing" this at people that are willing to take that risk.

Don't think they haven't tested these versions before putting them out there. They are fairly confident that "these" will be the next release.

However, they simply need a bigger pool. As, for as much automated testing... and internal beta testing... there are just scenerios that can't reproduce.

So instead of "forcing" it onto people... they are giving an opportunity for those people that are very "into" this stuff, to try it... and be part of the solution.

Since #1, you needed to know about this forum (or one of the others that have semi-linked to this information)... #2, still have to do a manual process to get the software.

If the machine totally hosed... flat out fried because of the release... they wouldn't leave you at to dry. One of the benefits of the lease.. it is still "their" machine, and they are letting you apply the software to it.