[phrelin]

Am I the only one who thinks the ViP722 already is an out-of-date product with its 2nd output being SD?

As noted in the thread What Recession? TV Sales Soar HD enabled 16:9 TV sets are selling in huge numbers. IMHO Echostar needs to produce a two-HD-output DVR for Dish Network yesterday, preferably one based on the 722 design and hardware since it generally works. No extra frills or attempts to do more than that, just replace the TV-2 output with the same output circuitry as the current TV-1.

I know its not that simple. but rather than creating an established base of 722's out there in homes where new customers already are complaining about the 2nd output being SD (and they are!), wouldn't it have been better to have been able to offer a choice with the TurboHD promo? For an extra $129 up front?

I know, I just keep complaining that Charlie is behind the curve and getting "behinder".

 

[wreck]

Am I the only one who thinks the ViP722 already is an out-of-date product with its 2nd output being SD?

As noted in the thread What Recession? TV Sales Soar HD enabled 16:9 TV sets are selling in huge numbers. IMHO Echostar needs to produce a two-HD-output DVR for Dish Network yesterday, preferably one based on the 722 design and hardware since it generally works. No extra frills or attempts to do more than that, just replace the TV-2 output with the same output circuitry as the current TV-1.

I know its not that simple. but rather than creating an established base of 722's out there in homes where new customers already are complaining about the 2nd output being SD (and they are!), wouldn't it have been better to have been able to offer a choice with the TurboHD promo? For an extra $129 up front?

I know, I just keep complaining that Charlie is behind the curve and getting "behinder".

AMEN! Once you have HD -- you want ALL your TV's HD. It IS the future!

 

[tnsprin]

Am I the only one who thinks the ViP722 already is an out-of-date product with its 2nd output being SD?

As noted in the thread What Recession? TV Sales Soar HD enabled 16:9 TV sets are selling in huge numbers. IMHO Echostar needs to produce a two-HD-output DVR for Dish Network yesterday, preferably one based on the 722 design and hardware since it generally works. No extra frills or attempts to do more than that, just replace the TV-2 output with the same output circuitry as the current TV-1.

I know its not that simple. but rather than creating an established base of 722's out there in homes where new customers already are complaining about the 2nd output being SD (and they are!), wouldn't it have been better to have been able to offer a choice with the TurboHD promo? For an extra $129 up front?

I know, I just keep complaining that Charlie is behind the curve and getting "behinder".

The problem actually starts with the chip makers. The current basic Dish receiver is based on some Broadcom chips which do not support two seperate HD outputs.

 

[James Long]

Am I the only one who thinks the ViP722 already is an out-of-date product with its 2nd output being SD?
...
I know, I just keep complaining that Charlie is behind the curve and getting "behinder".

If DISH had a dual HD output (TV2 HD) receiver or DVR they would be ahead of the curve.

Can you name ANY other HD tuner with two HD outputs? Can you name a second company that also offers a dual HD output tuner. The curve is multiple HD receivers with one HD output. DISH is slightly ahead of the curve by having a second output at all (TV2 in SD).

If the ViP-722 DVR is "already out of date" then so is every other HD DVR on the market.

 

[BattleZone]

I completely agree with the problem: SD outputs will quickly become unacceptable, as they already are for a relative few (but quickly growning number of folks) who have multiple HDTVs.

But duplicating the outputs to the TV2 side is NOT a viable solution.

Customers EXPECT a *free* installation, but there is no realistic way for Dish to provide free installations that require long HDMI cables strung through people's houses. In many cases, HDMI runs will not even be possible, or won't be acceptable due to customer- or landlord-imposed restrictions. And what about TVs that don't have HDMI?

There is currently no solution for running these signals over RG6, and some proposed solutions will be very expensive compared to <$10 worth of RG6 cable that is used to connect TV2 today.

It would be much more practical to go the "one receiver per TV" route, like the 612. The only issue is that Dish will have to adjust their policies and will need to authorize a lot more DPP44 switches.

Then again, the talk in the industry seems to be moving towards having one "whole home DVR" with a small remote "extender" at each TV, with an encrypted link between, with HD support. That may make the whole issue moot.

 

[jclewter79]

Sorry Phrelin, I have to agree with James, I would love to see a receiver that outputs HD to 2 TV's but, I don't think E* is behind the curve by not offering one. Nobody else under the sun offers one. I do think that D* is way behind the curve in not offering a 2 room receiver or any form of MRV. The last real tech chat that we had they let on that they are working on it, once chips become cheaper and they figure out a cheap way to get the inputs to the 2nd room I think you will see it. 2 room receivers are not a fad, and one day you will see a 2 HD output HDDVR, I am sure of it.

 

[Mr-Rick]

Am I the only one who thinks the ViP722 already is an out-of-date product with its 2nd output being SD?

As noted in the thread What Recession? TV Sales Soar HD enabled 16:9 TV sets are selling in huge numbers. IMHO Echostar needs to produce a two-HD-output DVR for Dish Network yesterday, preferably one based on the 722 design and hardware since it generally works. No extra frills or attempts to do more than that, just replace the TV-2 output with the same output circuitry as the current TV-1.

I know its not that simple. but rather than creating an established base of 722's out there in homes where new customers already are complaining about the 2nd output being SD (and they are!), wouldn't it have been better to have been able to offer a choice with the TurboHD promo? For an extra $129 up front?

I know, I just keep complaining that Charlie is behind the curve and getting "behinder".

It's very simple. If a customer wants four rooms of HD and wants DVR on all four, DISH will do it. Customer pays $297 upfront lease fee and they will get installed FOUR model 612 dual tuner HD DVR's. They will have the ability to record EIGHT HD channels at once in that home. What? THe customer doesn't want to pay $297? Too bad. I want a Mercedes Benz for the price of a Chevy Cobalt, guess what? It ain't gonna happen. You get what you pay for.

The 722 is will no longer be the top receiver to have. In my opinion, the 612 will be the new TOP receiver. THe only unfortunate thing is no PIP and the smaller hard drive BUT you can use stand alone HDD's for additional capacity.

Rick

 

[Jim5506]

One dual tuner receiver with two HD outputs would be of great use but to a limited number of subs, because of the hassle to run either HDMI or component to the second TV (especially if it is >30 ft away).

Probably simplest just to use two HD receivers.

 

[Stewart Vernon]

Besides the already-pointed-out fact that Dish can't be behind on this since no one else offers such a device...

How do you get the HD signal to an HDTV in another room? Running HDMI would be expensive, and perhaps not reliable over a long run... same goes for running component cables.

It just isn't as cheap to distribute HD to another room right now as it is to distribute SD... and I'm actually not really seeing the advantage to doing so anyway. IF I had a 2nd HDTV in another room I'd want a dedicated multi-tuner DVR on each TV anyway.

 

[wreck]

Saying Dish is "behind the curve" was probably not the best description because they are actually a little ahead of their competitors -- but the fact is that the "future" is going to be "all" Hd. My guess is that new technology will be transmitting "wireless" HD signals directly from your dish to each TV with no cables whatsoever.

 

[jclewter79]

It's very simple. If a customer wants four rooms of HD and wants DVR on all four, DISH will do it. Customer pays $297 upfront lease fee and they will get installed FOUR model 612 dual tuner HD DVR's. They will have the ability to record EIGHT HD channels at once in that home. What? THe customer doesn't want to pay $297? Too bad. I want a Mercedes Benz for the price of a Chevy Cobalt, guess what? It ain't gonna happen. You get what you pay for.

The 722 is will no longer be the top receiver to have. In my opinion, the 612 will be the new TOP receiver. THe only unfortunate thing is no PIP and the smaller hard drive BUT you can use stand alone HDD's for additional capacity.

Rick

Well, my guess is the 612 was built just for this reason, to put HD in seprate rooms, but, with no PIP and a smaller hard drive it would be hard to call it the top receiver. If I had the money to own 4 HDTV's and was going to pay $297 dollars anyways I would lease two 722's and then buy another two. If I wanted a TOP setup.

 

[James Long]

Not having PIP puts the ViP-612 behind the other models ... it does allow it to have similar features of overlapping recordings or watch while recording something else but one can do that on a ViP-622 or ViP-722 in single mode. Something else exists.

I normally run my 622 in dual mode so my wife has use of TV2 on a small SD set ... except for when I "borrow" her tuner for overlapping recordings (generally I record on TV1 and am forced to watch what is recording and use TV2 for the extra stuff). But for the Olympics that wasn't going to work. Too many recordings that overlap - so since 8/8/08 I've been in single mode and loving it.

I've only used PIP a couple of times in the past week ... but I wouldn't want a receiver without it unless I had no choice (such as single mode or a single tuner receiver). But I can see the utility of having the dual tuner/record even if PIP isn't available.

I believe the next step for the ViP receivers will be sharing content securely between DISH receivers. I don't expect full sharing (where non DISH receivers would be able to pull content) but I've been expecting a ViP-211 to be able to view content off of a ViP-622 DVR since I first heard of the models in 2005.

Content sharing would put DISH on the next curve.

 

[phrelin]

I recognize the problems associated with connecting a second HD TV. But it can be done as I'm doing it and others here are doing it using the TV1 outputs. You just can't watch different things, which in our house is fine. It appears to not be fine in many homes and is likely to get to be a bigger problem. So hence my call for a two-HD-TV output 722.

I did say that "Charlie is behind the curve...." Here's what I see about "Charlie" (a convenient substitute for Echostar/Dish Network).

In 2005 Charlie clearly seemed to realize that HD was the next big thing in TV. In 2006 came the ViP622. More indication that he seemed to be headed in the right direction. But even as late as July 2007 we saw posts (this one for example) that indicated Charlie's phone representatives didn't know a 622 from a microwave oven. (Who care's if Charlie, the person, understands?) And there were the gnawing glitches such as the HDMI plug problems, software issues, etc. But still, in 2006 Charlie was "leading" in HD mostly because he had the hardware lead and, ironically, VOOM.

At that point, the ball was dropped mostly because of lack of HD channel capacity, but also because Charlie was operating like it was still 2005. Yeah, in the hardware arena we saw the 722 and the 712. So Charlie did keep up his lead in the hardware, just not the service the hardware is used for.

In an effort to counter the 2007 "march down the field" by DirecTV, what we're getting now is the TurboHD "hail Mary pass" in an attempt to take back the lead before the clock runs out. All focus is on the too obvious - more channels and cheap all HD packages.

Since TV viewers in droves are replacing their old TV's with new HD models, TurboHD is a good play. Except that it appears that many of Charlie's phone representatives still don't know how the 622/722 works (see this post) and even if they did I'm not sure they could offer nationwide a three-612 reliable installation, the solution Mr-Rick correctly identified as the only current alternative. I know the contract installers who did my HD install couldn't have done it. And right now DirecTV and Comcast can give you a box in every room. So being able to do that certainly doesn't give any points toward the lead. Just getting more stations is just playing catch up, also.

IMHO Charlie needs to have already called that next creative play, that one play that addresses the multi-room HD issue. Maybe it can be done through the Sling system or networked-ViP's content sharing rather than creating a box with more HD outputs. But whatever the solution is, I hope it's in Beta testing right now.

And, yes, IMHO my 722 is yesterday's news. If there's any news today it is that the rollout of 1080p VOD hasn't worked too well.

 

[James Long]

So this is just a "bash DISH" thread for you ... except you missed the mark by basking DISH for not having a product no one else has either?

On the topic of the thread ... where is the 2 HD output ViP? It isn't available. Not from any provider. As far as "hail mary" generic bash of DISH in this thread (considering your "no 2nd HD output" bash didn't meet your expectations) - well I believe you have made your intentions clear.

 

[BattleZone]

I recognize the problems associated with connecting a second HD TV. But it can be done as I'm doing it and others here are doing it using the TV1 outputs.

What you aren't understanding is that if HD outputs were added to, say, TV2 on a 722, you would have lots and lots of customers who would demand to have their second TV hooked up. 150' active HDMI cable needed? The customer would insist that it be free. And, of course, it would need to be wall fished, probably in two walls. You could easily add another $1000 in parts and labor to do that install, plus 6-8 hours for installation. Oops, the tech damaged the $750 HDMI cable. Got to throw it away and get another one.

No, I really doubt that is ever going to be a reality. What is far more likely would be MRV (multi-room viewing) via Ethernet or over coax, and eventually a whole-home DVR with 4 or more sat tuners and a couple of huge hard drives.

 

[phrelin]

So this is just a "bash DISH" thread for you ... except you missed the mark by basking DISH for not having a product no one else has either?

​

I think Charlie needs constant prodding. I do send these rants to investor relations, worded a bit more carefully.

And I did end the original post with

I know, I just keep complaining that Charlie is behind the curve and getting "behinder".

On the other hand I recommend Dish whenever I can.

 

[HobbyTalk]

What I wonder is who he is behind? Who has a dual output HD reciever?

 

[phrelin]

What I wonder is who he is behind? Who has a dual output HD reciever?

He is behind where we need to have him be.:grin:

 

[DishSatUser]

The "cheapest" solution for this issue, will likely be addressed with the future ViP 722s. The "sling" features will allow the use of the Slingbox purchase E* had performed. Simply use broadband networking to deal with the issues of getting quality HD from one room to the other.

So again, E* will be "ahead of the curve"

It's also the ace in dealing with the Tivo issue too, I think. Once the sling features are shown to be the "killer" solution for this problem, E* can do the patent smack down on others that try to do the same approach. Tivo could be pressed to provide the "time warp patent" license for a reciprical "sling feature license". If E* could even show that the value of the sling license is greater, get the time warp license for free and even get revenue streams from Tivo based system providers.

Smokin!!!

 

[James Long]

I suppose a built in Sling and new HD Slingcatchers could play a role in providing HD TV2 ... but I really expect something more tied to a ViP to ViP sharing so DISH can defend their "media sharing" between machines against the content providers that want that kind of thing shut down. Perhaps in the future we'll see more content on DISH because DISH will be better able to protect the rights of that content.

The Sling feature is nice but I don't see it used for more than a SD TV2 via ethernet/internet. Perhaps as an expansion of "remote programming" that will let you see your DVR screen while you're making changes (with non-Sling ViPs still offering "remote programming" but not and interface showing video from home).

Then again, why limit it to just what I expect. Anything is possible, some things are just more difficult.