[Spoonser]

First, I've always had this problem with my 722, before and after the blasted 5.xx software updates.

I have my 722's audio going through HDMI to my LCD TV. Then I have the TV's optical out hooked up to my Pioneer receiver. When I pause something (recorded or live), it seems that the sound output from the 722 just stops. However, my TV shows that PCM audio is coming in when I pause it- I don't know if it "sees" anything, or if that's just a default assumption when the optical is hooked up.

In other words, rather than staying "active" and telling the receiver "play dead silence", it seems like it's just turning off altogether (or switching to PCM). This matters because it takes a second or two for my TV to "see" the audio coming back on from the 722 and say "Ok, this is 5.1 Dolby", at which point it starts sending the signal to my receiver.

I don't have this problem with my upconverting DVD player, which also sends the audio via HDMI to the TV. In fact when I pause the DVD, my TV tells me it still sees Dolby Digital, and when I unpause it, it's a very short lag before the audio starts again.

I don't want to hook up the 722 directly to my receiver because I'm using the TV as my HDMI switch and also because the lip sync is a little better due to the HDMI lip sync latency feature I'm using.

Does anyone know how to fix this? If not, has this issue ever been brought up with Dish? Thanks to all for your help.

 

[kucharsk]

When I do this on my 722, my surround decoder, which is very sensitive to surround format changes, shows that 5.1 DD is still being sent when the DVR is paused.

Why don't you connect the 722 directly to your receiver as a test?

It sounds as if your TV is regenerating the output in whatever format it believes it's "seeing" rather than simply pass the digital signal to its output as-is.

Personally, I'm surprised it's passing the audio on when routed that way in the first place; most TVs do not pass digital audio and instead only use their optical output to send digital audio from the TV's ATSC tuner…

 

[SaltiDawg]

....
I have my 722's audio going through HDMI to my LCD TV. Then I have the TV's optical out hooked up to my Pioneer receiver. ...

Be aware that your TV's Optical Out is passing only 2 CH to your receiver when the TV is receiving it's audio from other than OTA. When you input the 722's Audio to the TV it will only pass 2 CH to your TV Optical Out. If you are watching TV OTA and 5.1 is available it will pass that 5.1 out via the TV's Optical Out.

This does not address your specific question, but it is important to note and may affect the way you chose to port your audio to the A/V Receiver.

 

[SaltiDawg]

Personally, I'm surprised it's passing the audio on when routed that way in the first place; most TVs do not pass digital audio and instead only use their optical output to send digital audio from the TV's ATSC tuner…

They generally pass on the 2 CH stero via the Optical Out when the (audio) source is other than the ATSC Tuner.

 

[Spoonser]

They generally pass on the 2 CH stero via the Optical Out when the (audio) source is other than the ATSC Tuner.

Actually it's passing through 5.1, according to the receiver (and ears). My receiver shows each channel it's getting (e.g. L, R, LFE, etc.). If it's PCM sound it doesn't show any of those channels. I'm sure what you say is true in most cases, but this is a relatively new TV (bought it in January) and it's Toshiba's top of the line LCD set, so maybe it's even a "luxury" feature.

Also, I should mention that when the sound coming from the 722 is PCM, the lag is almost non-existent, just like when I'm using my DVD player.

Kucharsk, you raise a good point about the TV regenerating the output vs. a true pass-through. When I had the optical straight from the 722 to the receiver, the sound was on almost instantly. And since I'm using the HDMI lip sync latency, maybe it's delayed as it has to figure out where the audio should be relative to the picture. I'll have to try turning that off and on and see if it matters.

 

[Spoonser]

Just tried turning the lip sync latency off, and no cigar. I always end up losing 5.1 when I pause it and it takes the TV a full second or more to start pumping out sound again, via built-in speakers or the receiver (definitely rules out the receiver).

Interestingly, if I have the TV's on-screen display up, it almost instantly recognizes that it's getting Dolby Digital when I take it off of pause. Either the TV is busy with processing or it's something the 722 is doing that's related to getting the Dolby off of the HDMI cable.

I guess the next step would be running the optical in from the 722 to the TV for audio and see what happens.

If that doesn't fix it then it's go to be the TV's fault, because again, I have no problem when running optical from the 722 to the receiver.

Is there anybody else reading this that uses HDMI for sourcing their Dolby Digital 5.1?

 

[Spoonser]

Ok, last post I'll make unless/until I hear from anybody else.

I was going to run the optical straight into the TV, but I realized that since I have the same setup for sound with my DVD player (i.e. 5.1 feeding through TV via HDMI), then this problem has to rest with the 722, or at least the way the 722 talks to the TV vs. my (cheap) upscaling DVD player.

Again, I'd love to hear from anyone else who is getting 5.1 off of HDMI to hear what your experience has been like (whether via TV like me or not).

 

[SaltiDawg]

Actually it's passing through 5.1, according to the receiver (and ears). My receiver shows each channel it's getting (e.g. L, R, LFE, etc.). If it's PCM sound it doesn't show any of those channels. I'm sure what you say is true in most cases, but this is a relatively new TV (bought it in January) and it's Toshiba's top of the line LCD set, so maybe it's even a "luxury" feature. ....

I'd be interested in what specific TV Model you have that will output 5.1 sound with an HDMI Input. TIA

PS If your set is a Toshiba REGZA set (I am not familiar with Toshiba's Lines) then it as I said - "an optical digital audio output for routing off-air HD soundtracks to an AV receiver" is what they have.

 

[Spoonser]

I'd be interested in what specific TV Model you have that will output 5.1 sound with an HDMI Input. TIA

PS If your set is a Toshiba REGZA set (I am not familiar with Toshiba's Lines) then it as I said - "an optical digital audio output for routing off-air HD soundtracks to an AV receiver" is what they have.

I have a REGZA LX177. You got me wondering if somehow I was getting interpolated 5.1 or something since my receiver was clearly showing I'm getting 5.1 (but only for shows that are in HD). The distinction you're talking about (outputting 5.1 for just OTA broadcasts vs. something coming over the HDMI cable) isn't something that I can readily verify in the manual.

However, I've read several posts over at AVS Forum that says it does do a pass-through. Below is a link with the FAQ for this TV (see the 2nd post down for the FAQ)- obviously this isn't from the manufacturer, but I've found that the people over there are usually pretty accurate. And more than anything else, my receiver thinks it's getting 5.1 when I'm watching HD programming, and to my ears it's very different when the receiver says it's getting 5.1 vs. when it's just 2-channel PCM.

In any case I truly appreciate your input.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=11413997

 

[SaltiDawg]

....
However, I've read several posts over at AVS Forum that says it does do a pass-through. Below is a link with the FAQ for this TV (see the 2nd post down for the FAQ)- obviously this isn't from the manufacturer, but I've found that the people over there are usually pretty accurate. ...

I'm one of the "people over there."

I am sure that as you research it you will be able to confirm that the Optical Out of your TV is two channel unless you are decoding a 5.1 OTA signal with its ATSC tuner. This is not a function of "quality" or "Upscale" sets. (I own a new $7500 MSRP set and this is the case on mine, as it is on yours.

 

[Spoonser]

I'm one of the "people over there."

I am sure that as you research it you will be able to confirm that the Optical Out of your TV is two channel unless you are decoding a 5.1 OTA signal with its ATSC tuner. This is not a function of "quality" or "Upscale" sets. (I own a new $7500 MSRP set and this is the case on mine, as it is on yours.

I suppose the FAQ is wrong then, and my receiver is somehow mistakenly registering 5.1. It sounds like 5.1 to my ears and I did some research, so at this point I'll just have to plead blissful ignorance and enjoy my setup. Thanks again for the input.

Now if I could just get this delay issue solved...

Again, if anyone out there is doing what I'm doing with my setup, I'd be keen to hear what your experience has been (even if it's only getting 2-channel sound).

 

[HobbyTalk]

I use my A/V receiver as my HDMI switch. I have a short delay (maybe 1 sec.). I would guess the 722 doesn't "mute" the audio but shuts it off. Since you now have two devices that have decode the audio (first the TV, then the A/V receiver), you have a longer delay.

 

[Spoonser]

I use my A/V receiver as my HDMI switch. I have a short delay (maybe 1 sec.). I would guess the 722 doesn't "mute" the audio but shuts it off. Since you now have two devices that have decode the audio (first the TV, then the A/V receiver), you have a longer delay.

First, thanks for the input.

Seeing as my upscaling DVD player doesn't do this, do you know if anyone has addressed this with Dish? In other words, my DVD player's behavior around this seems to indicate that this doesn't have to happen, so couldn't Dish fix this in a software update?

If so, what's the best way to provide the feedback to Dish?

 

[SaltiDawg]

I suppose the FAQ is wrong then, and my receiver is somehow mistakenly registering 5.1. It sounds like 5.1 to my ears and I did some research, so at this point I'll just have to plead blissful ignorance and enjoy my setup. Thanks again for the input. ...

Sarcasm noted.

Here's some help for you:

I presume you have the owner's manual, pg 18?
Post 2172
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=971015&highlight=optical+pass&page=73

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13686298&highlight=optical+pass#post13686298

Some users discuss:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13298767&highlight=optical+pass#post13298767

I am obviously hijacking this thread, although it is for a reason central to your set-up. I apologize to the readers and I shall not post in this thread again.

Spoonser knows what he knows and I'm not going to be the target of his condescension nor sarcasm. Bye.

 

[HobbyTalk]

First, thanks for the input.

Seeing as my upscaling DVD player doesn't do this, do you know if anyone has addressed this with Dish? In other words, my DVD player's behavior around this seems to indicate that this doesn't have to happen, so couldn't Dish fix this in a software update?

If so, what's the best way to provide the feedback to Dish?

I have not heard anyone else complain abpout this issue. I would guess it isn't an issue for most people that use an A/V reciever because they don't have it hooked up the way you do. Most people want 5.1 and your setup does not provide that.

 

[Spoonser]

Sarcasm noted.

Here's some help for you:

I presume you have the owner's manual, pg 18?
Post 2172
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=971015&highlight=optical+pass&page=73

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13686298&highlight=optical+pass#post13686298

Some users discuss:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13298767&highlight=optical+pass#post13298767

I am obviously hijacking this thread, although it is for a reason central to your set-up. I apologize to the readers and I shall not post in this thread again.

Spoonser knows what he knows and I'm not going to be the target of his condescension nor sarcasm. Bye.

Saltidog, I honestly did not mean to convey sarcasm. What I was trying to say in polite terms was that I had my reasons for my belief, and that we just had to agree to disagree. I am genuinely sorry if that came across as sarcasm. I honestly do appreciate your input, even if it's something I don't necessarily want to hear. If my TV doesn't even do surround through the output, you are right, that's the central issue to my problem, and you would have solved it. But in this case I disagreed (and still do).

However, your references all point to the wrong tv. I have a 42LX177. Your references all point to the xxXF550 line, and page 18 of my manual covers nothing but the IR blaster pass-through.

Here's a few posts from AVSForum. I can't honestly call this conclusive, but like any forum it's based on the experiences of users, so apart from getting word from a Toshiba engineer I don't know how else to get a definitive word.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=11394429&highlight=pass+through#post11394429 (see the 16th post if it doesn't take you there)

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13257961&highlight=pass+through+optical#post13257961
(go to post 1523 if it doesn't for you)

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13102402&highlight=pass+through+optical#post13102402
(go to post 1381 if it doesn't for you)

Yes, I'm afraid this thread has gotten off-track, although it got off track because of your honest desire to help. I won't post on this "sub-topic" again either, but I may start a similar thread in the future. If you still disagree with my conclusion at that point, perhaps you could PM me, and that way we could avoid doing the back-and-forth in the thread itself.

If you convinced me that I'm simply wrong about this, I'd happy to admit it, and I would of course post that in that future thread to close it out. Again, I'm sorry if this felt personal. One of the well-documented problems with email/ forum posts is the inability to transmit non-verbal communication (e.g. tone, body language, etc.).

If anyone else has input on the problem I'm experiencing, I'd love to hear it. Thanks again to all of the helpful people that make this board great, and if you've read this far, I admire your tenacity!