DBSTalk Forum banner
1 - 20 of 52 Posts

· AllStar
Joined
·
99 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
O.k. I understand that directv customers will not need anything related to the feb 09 conversion. However, there are a few questions that maybe some one here could answer for me.

1) Are standard def and high def signals all be the same then? Or will there still be 2 different broadcasts for the networks.

2) If the above is true then half of the bandwidth used by directv to send 2 channels of tnt for example (one sd one hd) would no longer be needed, right? Would this release additonal capacity?

Would the SD duplicates go away? If not, at what point do the various networks stop sending SD signals.

I do realize there is a difference between HD and digital television, I am just wondering how much difference there is.

Why do I ask and how does this relate to directv? I want that band width back so that we can get more and more and more channels instead of 2 channels of identical shows per network.
(On a side note, if the SD's become obsolete and are no longer carried, then would the HD surcharge also go away?!?!? (pretty sure i know the answer to that one)
 

· Hall Of Fame
Joined
·
3,682 Posts
You'd still need duplicates. Since many people still have SD equipment. And new SD equipment is installed daily. I don't see SD disappear for another 5 years if not even more.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
5,670 Posts
DirecTV will continue to provide SD versions of the various networks for some time to come - whether that's via a SD feed from the provider or a converted HD feed doesn't matter as SD will continue to be supported. They have way too many SD boxes to convert everyone at once.
 

· AllStar
Joined
·
99 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
say-what said:
DirecTV will continue to provide SD versions of the various networks for some time to come - whether that's via a SD feed from the provider or a converted HD feed doesn't matter as SD will continue to be supported. They have way too many SD boxes to convert everyone at once.
So if I plug a HD receiver in to a SD tv there would be no picture, from a HD channel at least? Even if I used a coax, or RGB cable to connect it? This makes some sense, and a solution would be a downstep conversion in the box. O.k. I can see that, and the current boxes don't do it.

I know we don't need them, but what about the converter boxes that best buy is selling. It will receive the digital signal off the air, from the locals, but will the locals still need to broadcast in SD and HD, or would THAT converter do the conversion. And if that is the case then would directv have to do the conversion at there end (since our boxes would not convert HD to SD) and still carry that local as 2 discrete channels?

Does this make any sense or am I completely asking stupid questions.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
8,035 Posts
SD & HD have nothing (well very little anyway) with the conversion to Digital transmissions (ATSC).

You can have SD transmitted by NTSC (analog)
I *don't think* you can have HD transmitted by NTSC, but not %100 sure.
You can have SD transmitted by ATSC
You can have HD transmitted by ATSC
 

· Mentor
Joined
·
55 Posts
boufa said:
So if I plug a HD receiver in to a SD tv there would be no picture, from a HD channel at least? Even if I used a coax, or RGB cable to connect it? This makes some sense, and a solution would be a downstep conversion in the box. O.k. I can see that, and the current boxes don't do it.

I know we don't need them, but what about the converter boxes that best buy is selling. It will receive the digital signal off the air, from the locals, but will the locals still need to broadcast in SD and HD, or would THAT converter do the conversion. And if that is the case then would directv have to do the conversion at there end (since our boxes would not convert HD to SD) and still carry that local as 2 discrete channels?

Does this make any sense or am I completely asking stupid questions.
There would be a picture. All you have to do is set the output signal to 480I (which is SD).
 

· Registered
Joined
·
5,670 Posts
DirecTV's mpeg-4 HD receivers (HR2x series and H2x series) will output SD. They do not have a coax output, but do output via S-Video, Composite, Component (RGB) and HDMI. DirecTV's HD boxes are capable of providing SD output for all channels received.

If you have older SD boxes from DirecTV, they will continue to work as they always have.
 

· Legend
Joined
·
177 Posts
All of the Current DirecTV HD set top boxes will simultaniously output an HD signal and a down converted SD signal from the same HD source. Because of the massive number of SD only equipment installed don't expect DirecTV to eliminate the SD versions of channels any time soon.

The set top boxes you are seeing at Best Buy and Walmart also down convert an HD signal to SD when received. While some local broadcasters are simultaniously broadcasting an HD and SD version of their channels digitally most don't and the set top box will do the down conversion. Separate sub-channels for SD and HD are just wasting bandwidth.
 

· Godfather
Joined
·
336 Posts
As far as I know the FCC will not allow any broadcasts on an analog frequency after that date so Directv will take the digital signal and translate it to the "SD" box. In this case it will free up transponder room, but I don't know what they could do with it.
 

· AllStar
Joined
·
99 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
BkwSoft said:
Separate sub-channels for SD and HD are just wasting bandwidth.
SO, when my local FOX station stops broadcasting SD in Feb, will Directv cut off that channel? and what would that do to me on my old SD TV in the spare room? (running on a R10 DTivo).

What happends to the other locals what directv carries. They are off air as HD digital or SD analog, but directv only carries the SD. If the SD goes away does that force directv to broadcast in HD?
 

· Godfather
Joined
·
336 Posts
boufa said:
SO, when my local FOX station stops broadcasting SD in Feb, will Directv cut off that channel? and what would that do to me on my old SD TV in the spare room?
Nothing as I stated they will do the conversion at their main transmission facility.

(this is a very educated guess)
 

· Hall Of Fame
Joined
·
12,954 Posts
boufa said:
So if I plug a HD receiver in to a SD tv there would be no picture, from a HD channel at least? Even if I used a coax, or RGB cable to connect it? This makes some sense, and a solution would be a downstep conversion in the box. O.k. I can see that, and the current boxes don't do it.
Right, the issue is not with the new boxes (or any of the HD ones). The problem is with the existing SD equipment that DirecTV has been deploying since the 1990s. Those boxes would not understand HD signals nor, for that matter, the satellites that have the HD content.

boufa said:
I know we don't need them, but what about the converter boxes that best buy is selling. It will receive the digital signal off the air, from the locals, but will the locals still need to broadcast in SD and HD, or would THAT converter do the conversion. And if that is the case then would directv have to do the conversion at there end (since our boxes would not convert HD to SD) and still carry that local as 2 discrete channels?
The OTA conversion boxes will take whatever is on the digital channel and render it to an analog TV. Remember, the switch over is about going digital, not going HD. HD is just a by-product for most stations (some will stay SD but digital for some time). The boxes downrez the signal if necessary to be analog complete with letterbox, stretch or zoom settings as needed.

boufa said:
Does this make any sense or am I completely asking stupid questions.
No, you are trying to understand a complicated issue and came to the right place.
 

· Godfather
Joined
·
336 Posts
boufa said:
What happends to the other locals what directv carries. They are off air as HD digital or SD analog, but directv only carries the SD. If the SD goes away does that force directv to broadcast in HD?
One would HOPE SO! Is we don't get CBSHD due to our stupid local management stubborn policies!
 

· The Shadow Knows!
Joined
·
36,634 Posts
It's not clear exactly how DIRECTV will get the content, and it may vary by market. Some markets may continue producing an SD feed for satellite and cable companies, while others may rely on the cable or satellite provider to downsample the over-the-air signal.

Either way, DIRECTV will continue putting out an SD signal for some time. If they were planning to upgrade 16 million SD receivers that are currently in the field, we would know about it by now.

Most likely they will follow a strategy similar to what was done with TiVo, where the older MPEG2 stations are phased out over time, but it will have to be a slow process, considering how many receivers will have to be replaced.
 

· Hall Of Fame
Joined
·
2,050 Posts
The mandate is to discontinue over-the-air analog broadcasts. Television stations will broadcast in digital. Stations have the choice as to whether to broadcast in HD, SD, or both. Most stations make use of subchannels (e.g., 4.1, 4.2, 4.3, etc.), so you could see stations broadcasting on HD on their X.1 channel, and simulcasting in SD on their X.2 channel.

People who have SD televisions with digital tuners will have HD broadcasts downconverted to SD pictures by their television. People who have SD televisions with analog tuners will need to get a converter box which will convert digital HD and digital SD broadcasts to analog SD signals for their television.

All of the above applies to Over-The-Air broadcasts and does not apply to the signal that DirecTV sends to its customers.

Currently DirecTV only sends special digital signals which can be received by special DirecTV receivers. Some DirecTV receivers are capable of receiving SD signals and some are capable of receiving HD and SD signals. If DirecTV were to eliminate sending SD signals, they would need to replace all of their SD receivers with receivers capable of receiving the HD signal. It is unlikely that will happen in the next year.

(As far as what DirecTV receives from the station, if DirecTV only receives a digital HD signal, they would need to convert it to a DirecTV HD signal and a DirecTV SD signal to send out to DirecTV HD receivers and DirecTV SD receivers.)
 

· Registered
Joined
·
1,210 Posts
boufa said:
So if I plug a HD receiver in to a SD tv there would be no picture, from a HD channel at least? Even if I used a coax, or RGB cable to connect it? This makes some sense, and a solution would be a downstep conversion in the box. O.k. I can see that, and the current boxes don't do it.

I know we don't need them, but what about the converter boxes that best buy is selling. It will receive the digital signal off the air, from the locals, but will the locals still need to broadcast in SD and HD, or would THAT converter do the conversion. And if that is the case then would directv have to do the conversion at there end (since our boxes would not convert HD to SD) and still carry that local as 2 discrete channels?

Does this make any sense or am I completely asking stupid questions.
You can plug an HD receiver into a SD tv and it will work. If every DIRECTV subscriber had MPEG4 capable receivers then it would be possible to discontinue the SD duplicates as the HD versions would be accessible to be downconverted by SD customers. The problem is that there are literally millions of SD only boxes out there that can't pick up the HD signals and downconvert them.

DIRECTV has shown that they plan to consolidate their receiver base down to one MPEG4 capable system for all installs in the near future. That doesn't upgrade the subscriber base that they already have though. Those most likely will have to be replaced by attrition which will take a long time and hasn't even been hinted at starting. They have added a few SD local markets that are MPEG4 only. So in a small way that transition has begun.
 

· AllStar
Joined
·
99 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Stuart Sweet said:
It's not clear exactly how DIRECTV will get the content, and it may vary by market. Some markets may continue producing an SD feed for satellite and cable companies, while others may rely on the cable or satellite provider to downsample the over-the-air signal.

Either way, DIRECTV will continue putting out an SD signal for some time. If they were planning to upgrade 16 million SD receivers that are currently in the field, we would know about it by now.

Most likely they will follow a strategy similar to what was done with TiVo, where the older MPEG2 stations are phased out over time, but it will have to be a slow process, considering how many receivers will have to be replaced.
From a cost point of view I am glad that they wouldn't convert everyone. That would be expensive, and as a constomer of theirs, I would be paying a part of that bill!

I think I understand now....

Locals, broadcast whatever type of signal they want (sd, HD or both) but it has to be digital by Feb 09.

No matter what format it comes in to Directv, it will be sent down from the satilite as both SD and HD since older receiver units units cannot even see the HD channels.

O.k. that answers the questions, there would be no bandwidth savings to directv for many years to come.

2 last questions.... spawned from the answers above..

1) Are there "Sd" and "HD" satalites? One person sugested that the older sats could not even transmit the HD signals.

2) How does the local TV signals get to directv in the first place for uplink to the satalites?
 

· Hall Of Fame
Joined
·
12,954 Posts
Some day they will probably bite the bullet and move to all MPEG4 and eliminate SD channels where HD exists but that is a long way off. They could do that without upgrading the old dishes by limiting the old-SD users to 101 only but just replacing the boxes themselves will be costly. They would have to come out with a cheap replacement box for legacy installs. But, as they have not shut off ANY boxes they ever sold or leased from a technology point yet (and we are talking over a decade of legacy boxes), this is not going to happen soon. Nor will attrition be a big player here.

As DirecTV was creating legacy (by doing single satellite installs with MPEG2 only boxes until fairly recently), the plans to shift are not imminent.
 

· Charter Gold Club Member
Joined
·
22,099 Posts
Re: Thread Title
Standard Def and the Feb 09 cutoff
SD is not the same as analog. Please stop saying SD when
you mean analog. You are contributing to all the confusion.
 

· Godfather
Joined
·
447 Posts
I believe some locals markets supply D* their "analog" feed via fibre. If so, the FCC does not really care what is on those fibre "wires", just OTA
Those stations / markets may contine sending D* their signal just as they are today.
 
1 - 20 of 52 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top