DBSTalk Forum banner
301 - 320 of 384 Posts

·
Beware the Attack Basset
Joined
·
25,427 Posts
Are you assuming that people are paying $75 more for DIRECTV without ST than any other provider?
I'm assuming only that most people who are interested and can afford NFLST don't qualify for the non-DIRECTV version so the likelihood is high that a qualifying DIRECTV DBS subscription is required. The average cost of that will likely be well in excess of $1,200 per year when you include either the second year or the $240 ETF. For the few that do qualify, I doubt they'll tip the average substantially.

It doesn't make a bit of difference what other providers one may subscribe to this season (2022-23).

What happens going forward is a mystery. It seems certain to me that there won't be thousands of DIRECTV DBS subscribers being gifted NFLST in the 2023-24 season as appears to be the case for the coming season.

It is certainly possible that the DIRECTV DBS ARPU has plummeted but I doubt it.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
53,881 Posts
The point is that ST is a $300 annual purchase, $400 if one wants max. Lumping in the cost of DIRECTV service to claim that the cost of ST is $1200 is deceitful. One gets other benefits for that $75 per month charge. And now you want to lump in the ETF for the second year? Why not add in the cost of electricity for the entire home for the full year? Why not add in the cost of other utilities? While one is exaggerating the cost of viewing ST one might as well add in their rent or mortgage payments and property taxes. And why stop there? Add in the cost of food and beverages. Take the entire household budget and claim that it is the cost of having Sunday Ticket.

The other costs that would have been paid whether or not the subscriber has Sunday Ticket should not be included in one's estimate of how much it costs to have Sunday Ticket. While this year and for the past several years a DIRECTV subscription has been required for most subscribers to get Sunday Ticket that subscription has stand alone value and replaces other MVPD subscriptions. That $75/mo you are adding would still be paid to DIRECTV or another service if one didn't subscribe to ST.

Honest debate is good but it begins with being honest when presenting information. ST does not cost $1200 per year.
 

·
Legend
Joined
·
159 Posts
The point is that ST is a $300 annual purchase, $400 if one wants max. Lumping in the cost of DIRECTV service to claim that the cost of ST is $1200 is deceitful. One gets other benefits for that $75 per month charge. And now you want to lump in the ETF for the second year? Why not add in the cost of electricity for the entire home for the full year? Why not add in the cost of other utilities? While one is exaggerating the cost of viewing ST one might as well add in their rent or mortgage payments and property taxes. And why stop there? Add in the cost of food and beverages. Take the entire household budget and claim that it is the cost of having Sunday Ticket.

The other costs that would have been paid whether or not the subscriber has Sunday Ticket should not be included in one's estimate of how much it costs to have Sunday Ticket. While this year and for the past several years a DIRECTV subscription has been required for most subscribers to get Sunday Ticket that subscription has stand alone value and replaces other MVPD subscriptions. That $75/mo you are adding would still be paid to DIRECTV or another service if one didn't subscribe to ST.

Honest debate is good but it begins with being honest when presenting information. ST does not cost $1200 per year.
You have to count the Direct TV subscription though. Not everyone who wants Sunday Ticket has or even wants a pay tv package. And many who do want a pay tv service can get a lower tier cable tv plus internet service package for the same price or lower than Direct TV by itself. And then there is just internet with a streaming pay tv service which is whole lot cheaper. So a Direct TV subscription is currently the cost of entry to get Sunday Ticket. Having an Apple TV+ subscription would be a much better entry point to sub to Sunday Ticket.
 

·
Legend
Joined
·
439 Posts
You have to count the Direct TV subscription though. Not everyone who wants Sunday Ticket has or even wants a pay tv package. And many who do want a pay tv service can get a lower tier cable tv plus internet service package for the same price or lower than Direct TV by itself. And then there is just internet with a streaming pay tv service which is whole lot cheaper. So a Direct TV subscription is currently the cost of entry to get Sunday Ticket. Having an Apple TV+ subscription would be a much better entry point to sub to Sunday Ticket.
And that is why they will charge more...
 

·
Beware the Attack Basset
Joined
·
25,427 Posts
Honest debate is good but it begins with being honest when presenting information. ST does not cost $1200 per year.
Yet to get it this season will require an average $1,200 investment (regardless of what you get out of it) and that's a high bar.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,368 Posts
It is not like you are writing DirecTV a $1,200 check just to be able to buy NFL ST. You are actually getting a very good service for that $1,200. Yes a premium service at a premium price. The majority of DirecTV subscribers pay for that premium service and don't buy NFL ST. I imagine you could count on one hand the number of people that only buy DirecTV and not use it just so they can also buy NFL ST.
 

·
Mentor
Joined
·
553 Posts
While you guys are trying to figure out what something "actually" costs, here's some an article from Front Row Sports that includes a tidbit of information that I wasn't aware about. Maybe you were, but it's news to me:

Contractual agreements with Fox and CBS prevent the eventual owner of Sunday Ticket from reducing the price too much below the current $300 annual cost.
Based on the article's information, it sounds like NFLST will still be somewhere near, or above, that $300 base package price.
 
  • Like
Reactions: NashGuy

·
Godfather
Joined
·
855 Posts
I think it is a safe bet it will be more than that if Apple pays what is rumored. LOL at people that thought their $4.99 per month for Apple TV+ would give them NFL ST.
Apple already said they were charging for the MLS package next year. However, it’ll be free for season ticket holders.

I’m guessing that Apple may offer promotions like a discounted or free season with purchase of an iPhone, or other hardware. If that’s the case, people could upgrade a phone in their family every year to keep the promotion. People used to upgrade with that frequency anyway.

The other issue is application of the cost of a DirecTV subscription to get Sunday ticket… my approach would be difference between the cost of a DirecTV package and comparable package from another provider… my suspicion is the majority of ST subscribers would be pay TV subscribers regardless. The fair comparison is between what someone would pay total for the service with and without ST. More of a marginal cost for ST approach. DirecTV is more expensive than cable, but not $100 a month more. It may be $10-20 a month more, but I doubt it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
53,881 Posts
While you guys are trying to figure out what something "actually" costs, here's some an article from Front Row Sports that includes a tidbit of information that I wasn't aware about. Maybe you were, but it's news to me:

Contractual agreements with Fox and CBS prevent the eventual owner of Sunday Ticket from reducing the price too much below the current $300 annual cost.
Based on the article's information, it sounds like NFLST will still be somewhere near, or above, that $300 base package price.
Assuming their unnamed insiders are correct and there is some sort of collusion to set a minimum rate. :) The concept has been mentioned before and that makes me wonder if unnamed sources are hearsay from the Internet.

In any case, I doubt that more than an insignificant number of subscribers would not continue to subscribe to DIRECTV or some other MVPD to watch other content once Sunday Ticket leaves DIRECTV. And even if one assumes that a person exists who never watches anything else on DIRECTV except Sunday Ticket and they maintain a subscription that costs $900 per year and never watch any other content we are certainly speaking of a unique case. (And that person should pause their account during the non-NFL months and subscribe to the minimum DIRECTV service - which would add up to less than $900.) The bar that must be cleared is to pay DIRECTV instead of another MVPD.

And if there is a "must charge $300 per month" rule how does DIRECTV get away with giving away ST for free? It has been a new customer offer for many years and free Sunday Ticket has also been given to existing customers. It seems that the facts present conflict with the claim made.
 

·
Beware the Attack Basset
Joined
·
25,427 Posts
(And that person should pause their account during the non-NFL months and subscribe to the minimum DIRECTV service - which would add up to less than $900.)
Pausing the account isn't the answer for those under a programming commitment:
  1. Any commitment you may be under extends by the duration of the pause
  2. The promotional discount clock doesn't stop when you pause so if you're on for six months and suspend for six months, your discounts are exhausted when you come back.
I think #2 may be new as I recall that the promotional discounts used to be removed upon an account suspension. I think the $7/month suspension fee may be new as well.
 

·
Hall Of Fame
Joined
·
5,238 Posts
Assuming their unnamed insiders are correct and there is some sort of collusion to set a minimum rate. :) The concept has been mentioned before and that makes me wonder if unnamed sources are hearsay from the Internet.

In any case, I doubt that more than an insignificant number of subscribers would not continue to subscribe to DIRECTV or some other MVPD to watch other content once Sunday Ticket leaves DIRECTV. And even if one assumes that a person exists who never watches anything else on DIRECTV except Sunday Ticket and they maintain a subscription that costs $900 per year and never watch any other content we are certainly speaking of a unique case. (And that person should pause their account during the non-NFL months and subscribe to the minimum DIRECTV service - which would add up to less than $900.) The bar that must be cleared is to pay DIRECTV instead of another MVPD.

And if there is a "must charge $300 per month" rule how does DIRECTV get away with giving away ST for free? It has been a new customer offer for many years and free Sunday Ticket has also been given to existing customers. It seems that the facts present conflict with the claim made.
I think the one article was clear the 300 dollar rule came from a stipulation from there new broadcast contracts
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
53,881 Posts
[*] Any commitment you may be under extends by the duration of the pause.
So your two year commitment becomes a four season commitment. One gives up $240 in discounts with a six month pause but end up saving the rest of the cost of a subscription package ... and DIRECTV isn't stingy with the discounts!

So year one ... Sign up for Choice with free NFL ST and $40 per month discount. Pause after six months. Six months later restore service and if DIRECTV doesn't offer free NFL ST drop down to the lowest possible package. Repeat the process. Instead of doing the math to see how much one can pay without allegedly watching ANY other content than NFL ST do the math to see how little one could pay.

This year (since there are not four seasons left on DIRECTV) sign up with a "Free NFL ST" deal for $70 per month - make sure you cancel any of the free HBO or other promos before they add to the bill. Then pay the $360 ETF six months from now. Total cost $780 ... not $1200. Unless you're claiming that DIRECTV will charge $70 per month in fees.
 

·
Beware the Attack Basset
Joined
·
25,427 Posts
So your two year commitment becomes a four season commitment.
The hitch with this reasoning is that there's little reason to believe that DIRECTV will be necessary (or even desirable) for NFLST beyond the coming season. I'm pretty confident that DIRECTV won't be giving away NFLST come next year (as opposed to giving it away to many this year).
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
53,881 Posts
Sure ... Now read the rest of the post instead of cherry picking.

The claim that people are paying $1200 just for NFL ST is obnoxiously false.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,257 Posts
If the NFL doesn't fetch the crazy billions they're hoping to land from deep-pocketed tech gods for the next NFLST contract, could they drop a nuclear bomb on the American TV landscape and offer NFLST via their own DTC NFL+ app? Might they even drop the local blackout rule and include local games as MLS just did in their historic deal with Apple?


I'm not looking for such an outcome to happen. But if it did, boy, that would fast forward us at least a couple years on our current trajectory toward the inevitable demise of the linear channel pay TV bundle system.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
53,881 Posts
In support of that suggestion I am reminded that in market streamed games were allowed via Verizon's service. But as streaming grows it has a greater impact on broadcast and cable TV. I assume that the broadcasters who just renewed their agreements have seen the current marketplace and would see such streaming as a threat. Blocking in market streaming of games would be higher on their list now than it was 20 years ago.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,257 Posts
In support of that suggestion I am reminded that in market streamed games were allowed via Verizon's service. But as streaming grows it has a greater impact on broadcast and cable TV. I assume that the broadcasters who just renewed their agreements have seen the current marketplace and would see such streaming as a threat. Blocking in market streaming of games would be higher on their list now than it was 20 years ago.
Oh, if the NFL included in market streaming of games in NFLST, I have to think there would be a big fat lawsuit filed against them by Paramount/CBS and Fox. The NFL's lawyers have to know this. Maybe there's some clever out that they left themselves in the new contracts they signed with those two broadcasters? (But then we have to assume that Paramount and Fox have good lawyers too.) More likely, should this scenario happen, the NFL would just pony up some amount to pay off Paramount and Fox to share in-market streaming rights for their local games, so that the games can be sold and streamed on their own NFLST/NFL+ as well as CBS/Paramount+ and Fox/Tubi. But out-of-market games would be exclusive to NFLST/NFL+. (And then there's the separate issue of those existing contracts for the national Sunday, Monday and Thursday night games; I can't imagine that any of those would end up becoming available on an exclusive or shared basis inside NFLST/NFL+ this decade as opposed to remaining exclusive to NBCU, Disney and Amazon, respectively. But the further we peer into the future, the more difficult it is to make predictions about how any of this might shake out, so who knows.)
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
53,881 Posts
The good news is we only have a few more months to look. The final DIRECTV exclusive season starts soon. I expect an answer before the end of the season.
 
301 - 320 of 384 Posts
Top