DBSTalk Forum banner
1 - 19 of 19 Posts

· Go Pack Go!!!!
Joined
·
2,805 Posts
He could also read the 2nd post in Gary’s link.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
213 Posts
Could you post details/facts of your research what convince you post such conclusion?
Google is quite easy to use, there are a lot of articles that show this, including the World Series this year.

Fox is broadcasting the Super Bowl in 1080p upscaled to 4K which is not the same thing. Upscaling loses detail and introduces subtle visual artifacts.

 

· New Member
Joined
·
322 Posts
This is another example of FOX really being annoying with the stuff they do and put out there. From the Sports Business Journal article Gary posted after his original message:

Fox Sports executives announced on Tuesday that Super Bowl LIV on Feb. 2, 2020 will be broadcast in ultra-high definition (UHD) and shot at 1080p high-dynamic range (HDR).

Speaking at the Sports Video Group Summit on Tuesday in New York, Fox Sports executives Michael Davies and Kevin Callahan revealed the plan to produce all of Super Bowl Sunday’s live content from Miami in the 1080p HDR format, including the on-location studio set and halftime show.

“Sometimes UHD is used interchangeably with 4K, but there are a lot of good reasons that 4K winds up being not only technically more difficult-slash-impossible to do a show of this size but also there are some real reasons why sports in general look better in 1080p versus being shot natively in 4K,” said Davies, the SVP of field and technical operations.

At 60 frames per second, 4K suffers from “pixel offset,” he added. “The more frames you get, the more times the refresh happens so that if you’re panning from left to right the pixels will not blur quite as much. At 60 frames [per second], with 4K you’ll get more motion blur in action scenes.”
In other words I can go out and buy a pig and dress it up in a dog costume and try to sneak it onto a plane as a dog, but ultimately it's still a pig. 1080p is still 1080p. It's no different than back in the day when stations "upconverted" SD programming to HD. It might look slightly better, but it isn't true 4K.

This reminds me of the days when Fox refused to broadcast in HD and instead used their "FOX Widescreen" 16:9 SD broadcasting. They tried to claim at that point in time that their 480p "Enhanced Widescreen" was superior to real HD. It obviously wasn't.
 

· Icon
Joined
·
2,696 Posts
This is another example of FOX really being annoying with the stuff they do and put out there. From the Sports Business Journal article Gary posted after his original message:



In other words I can go out and buy a pig and dress it up in a dog costume and try to sneak it onto a plane as a dog, but ultimately it's still a pig. 1080p is still 1080p. It's no different than back in the day when stations "upconverted" SD programming to HD. It might look slightly better, but it isn't true 4K.

This reminds me of the days when Fox refused to broadcast in HD and instead used their "FOX Widescreen" 16:9 SD broadcasting. They tried to claim at that point in time that their 480p "Enhanced Widescreen" was superior to real HD. It obviously wasn't.
I disagree. The big difference is that they are shooting in HDR. IMO, the big improvement between HD and UHD is the HDR (or any of the "flavors" of HDR (Dolby Vision, HDR+, etc...)) more so than the increased resolution. The first UHD TV that I had was "HDR-ready", which was really a BS marketing term meaning that it could accept an HDR signal, but didn't actually display anything in HDR. I couldn't understand why people actually cared about 4K. I didn't think that a 4K picture was any better than an HD picture. It wasn't until I bought a UHD OLED TV that actually displayed in HDR that I realized what the fuss was about.

I've really been impressed with the quality of the college football games that Fox has broadcast in upconverted 4K with UHD. However, I prefer to watch using the Fox Sports app than on DirecTV's UHD channels. There are far too many picture "glitches" when watching via DirecTV that just don't exist when watching through the app.
 

· Mentor
Joined
·
224 Posts
I disagree. The big difference is that they are shooting in HDR. IMO, the big improvement between HD and UHD is the HDR (or any of the "flavors" of HDR (Dolby Vision, HDR+, etc...)) more so than the increased resolution. The first UHD TV that I had was "HDR-ready", which was really a BS marketing term meaning that it could accept an HDR signal, but didn't actually display anything in HDR. I couldn't understand why people actually cared about 4K. I didn't think that a 4K picture was any better than an HD picture. It wasn't until I bought a UHD OLED TV that actually displayed in HDR that I realized what the fuss was about.

I've really been impressed with the quality of the college football games that Fox has broadcast in upconverted 4K with UHD. However, I prefer to watch using the Fox Sports app than on DirecTV's UHD channels. There are far too many picture "glitches" when watching via DirecTV that just don't exist when watching through the app.
Can you provide some insight on this? i always watch the NFL games when available on channels 105/106 and never seen or noticed any glitch with the picture, those evens look and sound great actually.
 

· Icon
Joined
·
2,281 Posts
So if Fox is complaining that 4K HDR will feature artifacts and motion blurring, my question would be, what does NBC do with the Olympics and Notre Dame games which they do in HDR as well? Are those true 4K or also upscaled 1080p? I've watched some of that, and I don't notice the issue the Fox people are describing. I don't have a top of the line OLED TV, but not the cheapest 4k TV either.
 

· Icon
Joined
·
2,281 Posts
Looks like they are making another excuse to protect themself from complains future PQ issues.
Yep. And with so many $300 4K TVs out there that don't do a great job with those types of artifacts, they are just trying to play down to the lowest common denominator. I get that, and probably smart on their end. In fact, with all the complaints about "dark scenes" on shows like Game of Thrones, where the production team took NO account about for the fact that only a small subset of TVs have the capability to show the content as it was meant, maybe it's just not a dumb idea after all.
 

· Icon
Joined
·
2,696 Posts
Can you provide some insight on this? i always watch the NFL games when available on channels 105/106 and never seen or noticed any glitch with the picture, those evens look and sound great actually.
I'm not sure how to describe it and I can't speak for NFL games. I only watch college football. I guess the best way to describe the problems as drop outs or quick freezes. Sometimes it's just audio and other times it's both audio and video. Surprisingly, sometimes, there will be a freeze for a second or two and the action will pick up at the exact spot where it froze (where the . Because of this, I've just assumed that the issue is in the transmission between Fox and DirecTV.

It doesn't happen in every game. But in games where it does happen, it usually happens often. It happens often enough that I just find it to be a better idea to watch using the Fox Sports app, where I have never experienced similar issues.
 
1 - 19 of 19 Posts
Top