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swm issue

1463 Views 22 Replies 10 Participants Last post by  swordsandtequila
Having issue with "searching for signal" after installing swm8. Found a link in this forum that appears to be the DTV handout for techs concerning installation of the swm8 and PI. Here's a portion:

Distance from power inserter to SWM LNB or SWM
Module’s can not exceed 150ft of distance (check)
Power inserter must be installed indoors only (check),

"do not
connect to a power strip
Do not plug the Power inserter into a switched electrical
outlet as this will cause all IRD’s connected to the SWM
equipment to loose signal"

This is directly out of their handout, even the typos. Is this true? I have my home theater equip, including the PI, plugged into a Belkin Pure/AV filter, with both switched and non-switched outlets. None of the switched outlets are used for any audio/video equipment, but it's still a glorified power strip, no? If a direct connection to wall outlet is required, why wouldn't this be mentioned in any of the installation paperwork provided when purchased? I will reroute power inserter and hopefully will solve my problem. Still don't know how I acquired a signal earlier, although very brief. Any thoughts, have you heard this before about the PI? The person from whom I purchased swm/pi says he tested before shipping. Thanks for any input.
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The whole ' do not connect to powerstrip is to prevent customers to turn off the SWM after the tech leaves. And not for anything tech related

I am sure your SFFS has another cause.
We need more info.

Please tell us from dish to IRD(s) how are are cabled.

Which IRD(s) are you using? Etc.
Okay, sorry about that. Setup:

HR21-100, 2+months old
Slimline 5LNB Dish, same

Purchased the receiver from Weaknees, dish ebay; upgrading old SD system strictly for HD (NFL Ticket, I know). Also have cable in the house, and not wanting to run another cable to enable 2nd tuner, diplexed with cable. Aligned dish (own an Accutrak22 MKII Pro), received signal (mid-high 90's on most), everything fine until I tried to record. After much research, realized I couldn't diplex the 5LNB with traditional cable. Tech @ Weaknees said my options were running another line or adding the swm8. Read up, sounded good, purchased.

Additional background; because of large oak tree, dish on one side of house entry point on other; less than 100 feet total, well within guidelines (to my knowledge). Original groundblock on entry side of house, so there is a cable break.

Anyway, connected swm, reset receiver, get signal on all sats. Did receive a message concerning the 103 sat stating there were errors on both tuners, but understand these were common and not necessarily true. Tune espn, works for minute, then locks up, then the infamous "searching for signal". This was a week ago. I've since tested signal strength @ every point from the dish back. Starts @ mid-high 90's, and fades all the way to the mid 40's @ the PI. All cabling and connections are new. I've read about the barrel connectors in groundblocks and wall jacks being too low frequency, so I ordered high freq connectors for the wall jack and am going to rerun the cable, taking out any unnecessary breaks.

Was reading through this forum last night when I came across the link concerning swm setup (dtv version) and the power inserter. As stated earlier, I did get a signal initially, then lost it. I've also connected the dish directly to the receiver, without swm and with bbc, and still no signal. Signal @ dish still strong. Weaknees tech wasn't sure I could use the accutrak with swm, but reading the dtv handout sounds like I can. I apologize for the length of this post, but I'm ready to throw the whole thing out. Hopefully rewiring with good connectors, etc, will fix the problem. I'm starting to think there's some download I need, as I can't even get back to the main menu screen (only options when I hit menu are reset dish info or test signal strength.
I've read quite a few of the posts on this forum, and it seems like there are some knowledgeable people here. Would appreciate any and all feedback. Thanks.

P.S. I've never used DTV to install any equipment, have always done it myself, and never had these problems. Only reason I've kept it was for the football package (sad, I know). Bottom line, I'm no expert but I'm not a novice either. Thanks again.
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Still need more specific info.

If you get signal at the dish, but not on a directly connected, without BBC, IRD, how about trying a new cable?

Removed the diplexing?

Do you have all 4 cables from the dish to the SWM?

Do you have the PI installed properly? How long is the run from the SWM to the PI?

Using splitters, if so how many, what make?
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It would not surprise me at all if your cable signal was intruding on the sat frequencies. Diplexing is pirmarily for OTA antennas, which have a set upper frequency limit. Cable often goes much higher, especially on digital systems, which is just about all of them anymore.
DId you remove the B-Band converters from the DVR? The SWM doesn't use them anymore.
Cmnore said:
DId you remove the B-Band converters from the DVR? The SWM doesn't use them anymore.
The B-band converters don't suddenly jump in the way after a couple of weeks. They would have done whacky things up front.
Okay then:

Is PI going DIRECTLY to the SWM or through a splitter first? IF through a splitter - is it through the power-passing port? Cable TV has been removed from the installation for now?
First, thanks for all the replies. More answers here in an hour than in days on other forums. That said, swm was connected properly, 4 lines from dish, one line from swm port 1 to old ground block (cable break mentioned earlier), to wall jack, to power inserter (proper port), out to receiver. Initially had signal, then lost. No splitters, diplexer out (reason for buying swm). PI is located by receiver, apprx. 75 feet from swm, maybe less. From what I've read, this shouldn't be a problem. I've put in new ground rod on side of swm and removed ground block. All cables are new and connectors are new, compression fittings designed for weather. None the less, I live in Florida so I also used rubber boots to protect fittings. When the high freq barrels show up, I'm rerouting cable through attic (currently runs around house under eave), eliminating any breaks other than @ entry; this will also shorten run somewhat. When I initially tested signal with ka/ku meter, strength went from 90's @ dish (each of 4 lines) to 89 @ swm, to mid 60's @ old break (apprx 60 feet or so, before and after block), to mid 50's @ wall jack, mid 40's @ PI. Don't know how accurate this is, as there's some question about using the accutrac with swm. Just don't understand how I had signal @ first, then nothing, with swm and without. Only used bbc without swm, and cable (tv) is completely out of the equation. I've read everything I can find, so I feel pretty comfortable as far as working knowledge goes. I'm hoping it's something in the line, it usually is; guess I'll find out soon enough (few days). I appreciate and welcome all responses/suggestions/hints. Will check back and answer any questions, and will update when I rewire. Thanks again.
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You don't need a grounding block, you can ground the SWM itself.

I'd remove the grounding block from the FTM/SWM1 out coax. I'd have only coax from the SWM to the PI.

(...I see you've done that...sorry)

...and you removed the cable from the OTA input, too?

Still you may have a bad connector or cable. I'd try a new run from the PI to the SWM.

...using RG6?
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New RG6, yes. Never had cable connected to OTA input. Before I bought the swm I had diplexed one of the two lines connected to the dish with the cable for Brighthouse; could do this on old dish. Removed once I knew wouldn't work with Slimline dish; whole reason for going with swm, being able to run 1 cable to receiver and still get both tuners. I'm going to disconnect all cables and test signal from dish with and without swm just to make sure. Will update one way or another. Thanks for help.
swordsandtequila said:
New RG6, yes. Never had cable connected to OTA input. Before I bought the swm I had diplexed one of the two lines connected to the dish with the cable for Brighthouse; could do this on old dish. Removed once I knew wouldn't work with Slimline dish; whole reason for going with swm, being able to run 1 cable to receiver and still get both tuners. I'm going to disconnect all cables and test signal from dish with and without swm just to make sure. Will update one way or another. Thanks for help.
If you are usint the SWM LNB, the power inserter must be 15 ft from the
approved splitter (2-2150MHZ one port power passing). if not this can cause
problems
Thanks, but not using swm lnb, but swm-8 module. Everything I read says I'm under the maximum run.
Bill C said:
If you are usint the SWM LNB, the power inserter must be 15 ft from the
approved splitter (2-2150MHZ one port power passing). if not this can cause
problems
:confused:
Given that the minimum distance is for a RF matching issue from the SWM to the PI, I can't see how or why the same 15' would be required from any splitter to the PI.
"The problem" is the amp in the SWM that needs a good match and not the PI.
Bill C said:
If you are usint the SWM LNB, the power inserter must be 15 ft from the
approved splitter (2-2150MHZ one port power passing). if not this can cause
problems
According to the 'First Look' at the SWM multi, the problems are with rain fade. Not applicable here.
Okay, update time. Had a bit of rain the last week, but finally rewired, hi freq barrels in wall jacks, straight run from swm to pi (no breaks). Still no signal. Total run apprx. 80-85 feet. Signal @ dish mid 90's. Took swm and pi out of run, so dish connected directly to receiver (with bbc), thinking I could fine tune dish first. Only break is @ entry to house. No signal. Measured signal @ dish again, mid 90's; @ entry point (70'?) right around 70 (using acutrak22 meter on the 101 sat). Now I'm reading about scc cable; pretty sure I have ccs (swept to 3 ghz), purchased @ home depot. Voltage seems consistent @ either end. Is this my issue? As I stated earlier, had signal fine until I installed swm, now nothing with or without. Response was sluggish when changing channels, but at least it worked. Some say it shouldn't matter, others say absolutely. Once again, thanks for all responses.

P.S. Pretty sure it's not an alignment issue. Have tried realigning, and end up right back to same settings prior to swm.
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90 @ the dish shouldn't be any alignment issue.
I don't have a meter so I use the receiver. Total run ~ 120' with 90s @ the receiver.
Measuring voltage @ the dish would need to have the LNB powered to be realistic. Without there is no load [current draw] so you're not measuring any voltage drop [if there is any].
Your earlier post seemed to have a lot of RF loss through the cables.
Since you now have both SWM & non SWM issues, I'd be looking at [the few] connectors. It is starting to sound like a bad shield connection and may be time to Ohm out the cables.
Appreciate the response; when I checked the voltage @ the dish the lnb was being powered by the receiver. I spoke with a tech @ Perfect 10 (acutrak) and he thinks the loss is probably due to the copper clad steel rg6. Then only cable older than 3 months is the short run from the wall jack to the receiver. Tested again @ wall with a jumper to receiver and signal around 75.
Pretty much learned most of this stuff on the fly; what's the simplest way to ohm out the cables? All connectors are new (digicon, etc). Trying not to start my own electrical store, know what I mean? lol. Thanks for your help.
swordsandtequila said:
Appreciate the response; when I checked the voltage @ the dish the lnb was being powered by the receiver. I spoke with a tech @ Perfect 10 (acutrak) and he thinks the loss is probably due to the copper clad steel rg6. Then only cable older than 3 months is the short run from the wall jack to the receiver. Tested again @ wall with a jumper to receiver and signal around 75.
Pretty much learned most of this stuff on the fly; what's the simplest way to ohm out the cables? All connectors are new (digicon, etc). Trying not to start my own electrical store, know what I mean? lol. Thanks for your help.
A quick way to check the cable to see if it is copper core or not: use a small magnet and see if it is attracted to the center conductor. if it is [DUH] it's steel.

If you have a voltmeter, then it should have an Ohm meter too. Maybe the easiest thing to do is to connect a 75 Ohm termination on one end and then measure the center to shield at the other end. If you don't have a termination, then using a short piece of coax with the shield connected to the center conductor [shorted] will give you an idea of how good the cable/run is.
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