[Chris Blount]

This argument seems to be cropping up in other areas of the forum so I thought I would start one here to keep it all contained.

Let the festivities begin! Oh, and try to be nice to eachother.

It's no secret that my main OS of choice is OSX although I do use Win 7 as well. Personally I like them both and whatever I can't do in OSX I simply dual boot into Win 7. They are both solid operating systems IMHO.

 

[lparsons21]

I'm almost all Mac these days. Everything I do is either on the iMac or iPad.

One exception is that I use Playlater/Playon DLNA server on an el-cheapo Acer laptop running Win7. I never found a DLNA server for Mac that I liked. I could live with Win7 if I was forced to, but I would hate it!!

Also got Win8 public beta on that laptop. Pretty much sucks as a desktop/laptop OS imo.

 

[harsh]

I'm not a big fan of either OS. Too many ways of approaching the same problem and far too much emphasis on obscuring details and preventing users from doing things directly (see more at XML).

I should be able to use the acreage on a display as I want and not have it tied up with toolbars, docks and other objects that hurt readability more than they facilitate anything else.

As it is with modern DVRs, you shouldn't have to step through three or more Windows to find a way of changing some parameter.

The whole idea of completely rearranging the interface for the sake of supporting consultants and keeping training organizations in business has got to stop. Microsoft, for their part, is trying to saw their foot off with a spork as they try to push Metro. I'm mad enough about "The Ribbon" that I want to choke somebody out.

While Apple and Microsoft are trying to make something that looks new out of something relatively old, the Linux people are coming up with some pretty slick distributions that do a lot of things right while not completely sapping the strength out of modest computers.

If I have to explain drive letters or why so many cool gizmos don't work with a Mac one more time, I'm going to hurt somebody.

 

[Nick]

...If I have to explain drive letters or why so many cool gizmos don't work with a Mac one more time, I'm going to hurt somebody.

That's harsh! :lol:

 

[dpeters11]

So, what is your favorite OS Harsh? DOS?

 

[P Smith]

Chris, are you stir two pots in one thread ? HW and SW [OS] ?

I see two major points - prices and obscurity (both parts - HW and SW).

To me Linux is a winner, while I'm bivalent to WinPC and Mac computers.

 

[lparsons21]

Price is always brought up when discussing Mac vs PC, but most often it really is a bogus argument. I have priced upscale PC computers many times, and the price differential is miniscule if you not only want a well performing box, but one that also has a great box with great innards.

If all you buy is the lower end of the design scale, yep, Macs are much more expensive. But compare an Ultrabook design to a MacBook or Air and you'll find the price not far apart. Same goes for well designed AIO desktops.

About that ribbon. I'm not a big fan of it either, but Sibelius (music engraving software) switched to it with their latest versions. It kind of grows on you with use.

Metro just sucks on anything but a touchpad!

 

[Stewart Vernon]

I'm not a big fan of either OS. Too many ways of approaching the same problem and far too much emphasis on obscuring details and preventing users from doing things directly (see more at XML).

I should be able to use the acreage on a display as I want and not have it tied up with toolbars, docks and other objects that hurt readability more than they facilitate anything else.

As it is with modern DVRs, you shouldn't have to step through three or more Windows to find a way of changing some parameter.

To be fair... when I talk about "computers" I'm talking about something different than a plug-and-play appliance.

The average person should be able to work a toaster or a DVR... but a computer? A computer is meant to be used for many different things and assumes some more advanced level of competence. I would argue that not everyone needs a computer.

You wouldn't expect an advanced piece of any kind of technical equipment to necessarily be used by anyone other than the intended audience. The problem with computers is that we have a society that tries to say "anyone can use a computer" but the truth is, not everyone can... oh, and that's ok too. We need people to do all sorts of things that don't require computer skills.

Price is always brought up when discussing Mac vs PC, but most often it really is a bogus argument. I have priced upscale PC computers many times, and the price differential is miniscule if you not only want a well performing box, but one that also has a great box with great innards.

If all you buy is the lower end of the design scale, yep, Macs are much more expensive.

Agreed. All too often Macs are compared with the low-end inexpensive PCs... and the problem there is that Apple doesn't make any low-end models to compete in that marketspace.

Heck, IBM divested itself of PCs years ago because it wasn't making a profit at the low-end... and sold their PC division to Lenovo in China... IBM decided to focus on the service side and the server side... and IBM charges way more for a server that might only differ slightly in construction than an equivalent PC!

So... you have to compare (wait for it...) Apples to apples

 

[P Smith]

Same goes for well designed AIO desktops.

Care to show sample for both sides? To me it's just words ...

 

[lparsons21]

The average person should be able to work a toaster or a DVR... but a computer? A computer is meant to be used for many different things and assumes some more advanced level of competence. I would argue that not everyone needs a computer.
So... you have to compare (wait for it...) Apples to apples

:lol:

My sister says she almost never uses her computer any more since she got her iPad2.

I still use mine for lots of things, including discussion forums and newsgroups. And of course, for the music engraving hobby that seems to be taking up more time than it should.

 

[P Smith]

way more for a server that might only differ slightly in construction than an equivalent PC!

not just understretch, but plain wrong argument, common !

 

[Chris Blount]

All too often Macs are compared with the low-end inexpensive PCs... and the problem there is that Apple doesn't make any low-end models to compete in that marketspace.

I agree. I did a parts breakdown of my Macbook Pro once and looked up PC laptops with the same parts and figured out quick that the premium on the Macbook was a little over $100.

In this economy, it's quite amazing how Apple did so well selling premium products.

 

[P Smith]

I did a parts breakdown of my Macbook Pro once and looked up PC laptops with the same parts and figured out quick that the premium on the Macbook was a little over $100.

Chris, it they use same parts (CPU, RAM, bridges, etc) and price for Mac is doubled ? Where is the logic ? I'm lost in your argument.

 

[lparsons21]

Care to show sample for both sides? To me it's just words ...

OK, here's a couple links for a quick look at AIOs :

http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/shop_mac/family/imac/select

http://www.dell.com/us/p/inspiron-one-2320/fs

Difference in price vs performance should be noted. And also consider the all aluminum case of the iMac vs the all plastic of Dell. Also note what's missing from the Dell. Like aluminum keyboard vice plastic (and if you've had Dell you know exactly how cheap their plastic keyboard is), missing bluetooth, and I think missing wireless networking. Dell has a 2" bigger screen and bigger HD.

Even if I could run either OSX or Win7 on both of those, I wouldn't pick the Dell at all because they are so cheaply made. But that's just me.

 

[lparsons21]

Chris, it they use same parts (CPU, RAM, bridges, etc) and price for Mac is doubled ? Where is the logic ? I'm lost in your argument.

He didn't say that. He said he used the parts in the MacBook and compared to a laptop with the same parts from somewhere else.

 

[P Smith]

He didn't say that. He said he used the parts in the MacBook and compared to a laptop with the same parts from somewhere else.

I need to see tear-down list with prices ... Your addition don't play well.

 

[billsharpe]

Back in the late 80's when I was writing reviews of inventory programs for stamp collectors one reader complained that I never mentioned the Mac.

My first response to him was that there were no stamp inventory programs for the Mac, while there were many for PC's.

I also pointed out that Macintosh computers back then were twice as expensive as PC's. He disagreed with me, but it turned out he was a student getting his Mac at 50% off.

Mac's are no longer twice as expensive as PC's but they do command a premium price.

I still don't own a Mac but you couldn't pry my iPod Touch out of my hands.

 

[lparsons21]

Macs do command a premium price because they are a premium product. Other mfgs premium products also come at a much higher price.

Yes you can buy a PC/Windows laptop for much less and you get much less for the money. Like a laptop so flimsy it has to be used on a desk...

 

[P Smith]

OK, here's a couple links for a quick look at AIOs :

http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/shop_mac/family/imac/select

http://www.dell.com/us/p/inspiron-one-2320/fs

Difference in price vs performance should be noted. And also consider the all aluminum case of the iMac vs the all plastic of Dell. Also note what's missing from the Dell. Like aluminum keyboard vice plastic (and if you've had Dell you know exactly how cheap their plastic keyboard is), missing bluetooth, and I think missing wireless networking. Dell has a 2" bigger screen and bigger HD.

Even if I could run either OSX or Win7 on both of those, I wouldn't pick the Dell at all because they are so cheaply made. But that's just me.

Kidding?

Pick same HW wise at least, Edison !

 

[lparsons21]

Kidding?

Pick same HW wise at least, Edison !

With Dell and AIOs that is as close as it gets.

But it is similar with HP, but I'm not going to do the research for you. I doubt you'd buy a Mac anyway.