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Earl Bonovich said:
No.

I don't think anyone thinks the problems are "fake" or are not happening.
But... when there are other posts, that the HR20 is a POS, or it fails every time... what are those that have no issues and are extremely HAPPY with the unit supposed to say?

Just like it is wrong to think that the problems are NOT happening... it is equally wrong to think that no one out there have units that have no issues at all.

I for example have very few problems. And now have two HR20's cranking along, with really no problems. And there are many others.
There are several people that I have helped here, that just can't get anything to work...

What get's attacked are the extreme attitudes on both sides of the statement. That one side is right, and the other side must obviously be wrong.

There are a significant amount of people out there that had no other option to DVR HD... they may not have been able to get OTA... or waivers for DNS HD. And the MPEG-4 HD-DVR even with it's issues, is more HD then they had before.

So yes... the "idiots" that are calling other idiots HAS to stop. and I mean it... it HAS to stop... or we will start to put people on "vacation" from the forum... some permantly.

This is a place where people can ask questions, get help, and have quality discussions...

Is the HR20 perfect? No...
But how long it takes to come close to that point... we can only gauge as the software releases come out..
Well said Earl. It always amazes that people think if they post the same gripe over and over again, they think it will somehow get fixed quicker. My HR20 has been working fine. The issues I do have with it, caller ID not working and no manual recording, are minor.
 

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The Shadow Knows!
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Gotta chime in here-

As the OP in this post:

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=68722

I got some comments which I considered out of line. I am not a pollyanna or apologist, and I am not some sort of self-professed self-help guru. I am a guy who enjoys buying the latest stuff, when I can afford it, and I don't mind a little bit of a battle in getting it up and running. It seems to me that those of us with fewer (or no) issues shouldn't judge those who are at wits' end with the issues we've all heard so much about. But at the same time, no one here is to blame.

I give huge kudos to Earl and PoitNarf and litzdog911 and others for making this a lot more fun for me. I'd like to see more people like you in these forums and fewer whiners.

I've also thought a lot about how we can actively address the recurring issues with this forum. I don't know that there's anything we can do to keep nearly every thread from becoming a bash or flame war by page 3. What we can do would be to start a HIGHLY MODERATED thread like:

Read this before posting about a problem:
-OTA is not active
-Partial/Unwatchable Recordings
-MPEG4 issues
-Closed Caption Doesn't Work
-No dual buffers
etc.

Any post that did not contain new information, or said something on the order of "That never happens to me" would be deleted. Any purely bashing post in this thread would be deleted. I would be happy to add to such a thread, but with relatively few issues, I think there are others whose experiences would be more valuable.

I would also suggest that the current unofficial tips and tricks thread be culled so that any posts without helpful information would be deleted.

Before I get bashed again, I'm not in favor of censorship. If you want to rant, feel free to do so. But I think there should be some purely helpful and informational posts so that new members don't just ask the same stuff over and over.
 

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AllStar
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Kool-Aid, Get your Kool-Aid Here!!

All hail our beloved leader--Earl!

I have one question--do we get T-shirts or membership cards in our new club-err-cult?

I hope I haven't been guilty of the endless complaining--I have posted some issues, but my 3 HR20's have been relatively stable and haven't missed any recordings since the last upgrade. I just wanted to post to get others' opinions and to ensure that problems are being reported to the folks that can fix them.

(soapbox)
We all need to try and remember that the box certainly isn't perfect, but it is getting better. Not everybody's HR20 is problem free, just like not everybody's is a doorstop/anchor. The reality is in the middle and varies from user to user depending on a variety of possibilities.
(/soapbox)
 

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The Shadow Knows!
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uncrph90 said:
(soapbox)
We all need to try and remember that the box certainly isn't perfect, but it is getting better. Not everybody's HR20 is problem free, just like not everybody's is a doorstop/anchor. The reality is in the middle and varies from user to user depending on a variety of possibilities.
(/soapbox)
That's one of the more rational posts I've read around here.
 

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I wonder if we could get a "this box is a POS" and a "no problems at all" together and have them swap boxes.. would be interesting to see if the problems follow the box of the setup..
p.s. mine has only missed 3 recordings since I got it 6 or 7 weeks ago..
 

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houskamp said:
I wonder if we could get a "this box is a POS" and a "no problems at all" together and have them swap boxes.. would be interesting to see if the problems follow the box of the setup..
p.s. mine has only missed 3 recordings since I got it 6 or 7 weeks ago..
There have been a couple of posters who have more than one hr20 and are having them act differently.
 

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lamontcranston said:
There have been a couple of posters who have more than one hr20 and are having them act differently.
but are they hooked to the same model equipment/tried swaping positions?
 

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Godfather
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HaiChinGow said:
Can we send people to corn field who respond with:

"It's a known issue"
OR
"Mines not doing that, it works perfectly"

?

:D
As long as we can do the same for the ones who post:

"This box is a POS! D* sux!"
OR
"Those few who are ALLEGEDLY NOT having problems"

:D
 

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houskamp said:
but are they hooked to the same model equipment/tried swaping positions?
Good question... anyone out there care to answer? Personally I think that usage patterns have a lot to do with the issues -- NOT TO BLAME THE USERS!!! I wish the hardware and software were more tolerant of unexpected processes, just to say that issues in the programming are probably more easily manifested in certain situations. From my time spent in the forums, my theory -- and that's all it is -- is that if you do too many of the following, you're likely to have more issues:

-Have less than perfect wiring or signal strength
-Keep less than 50% hard drive free
-Frequently record two programs at the same time, especially if one is MPEG4 and one is not
-Use Autorecord
-Have less than perfect power or use less than perfect surge protection

Again, I DON'T BLAME THE USERS! I agree with those who say that the thing should be able to handle these situations easily. All I'm saying is that it seems like patterns are emerging, and hopefully the programmers are going to take notice.
 

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Legend
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I have one problem, the 771 error. It is constant and doesn't allow me to get any HD outside of discovery and ESPN2. Being a HD receiver, it's hugely annoying. Otherwise it's been great. But really, this is unacceptable that a receiver cannot even receive a company's signals and that it takes this long to get it working. That is the only reason I continually am on this board, while awaiting an update to fix this in my opinion HUGE error.
 

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lamontcranston said:
Good question... anyone out there care to answer? Personally I think that usage patterns have a lot to do with the issues -- NOT TO BLAME THE USERS!!! I wish the hardware and software were more tolerant of unexpected processes, just to say that issues in the programming are probably more easily manifested in certain situations. From my time spent in the forums, my theory -- and that's all it is -- is that if you do too many of the following, you're likely to have more issues:

-Have less than perfect wiring or signal strength
-Keep less than 50% hard drive free
-Frequently record two programs at the same time, especially if one is MPEG4 and one is not
-Use Autorecord
-Have less than perfect power or use less than perfect surge protection

Again, I DON'T BLAME THE USERS! I agree with those who say that the thing should be able to handle these situations easily. All I'm saying is that it seems like patterns are emerging, and hopefully the programmers are going to take notice.
You will have no issues if you just don't use it at all. :nono:

I have to ask, where is your evidence that any of those recommendations have anything to do with any of the software bugs. Present your evidence, you cant, you are just yanking that crap right out of your [email protected]@. It is not a theroy, because you think you have an idea, at best it is a guess based on what patterns you think you are seeing based on what a bunch of yahoos (including this yahoo) have written on the forum.
 

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btmoore said:
You will have no issues if you just don't use it at all. :nono:

I have to ask, where is your evidence that any of those recommendations have anything to do with any of the software bugs. Present your evidence, you cant, you are just yanking that crap right out of your ass. It is not a theroy, because you think you have an idea, at best it is a guess based on what patterns you think you are seeing based on what a bunch of yahoos (including this yahoo) have written on the forum.
Theory: a proposed explanation whose status is still conjectural, in contrast to well-established propositions that are regarded as reporting matters of actual fact

That's what he's given you. If he had evidence to support it, it wouldn't be a theory anymore, it would be a fact. He's read what a bunch of yahoos said and proposed a theory based on patters which he perceives.

In the real world, now he'd go about proving or disproving it, but we're not in a position to do that. We're in a position to throw around guesses and conjecture in an attempt to make sense out of the madess that D* has given us.
 

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The Shadow Knows!
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btmoore said:
You will have no issues if you just don't use it at all. :nono:

I have to ask, where is your evidence that any of those recommendations have anything to do with any of the software bugs. Present your evidence, you cant, you are just yanking that crap right out of your ass. It is not a theroy, because you think you have an idea, at best it is a guess based on what patterns you think you are seeing based on what a bunch of yahoos (including this yahoo) have written on the forum.
I don't think your post was meant to start a semantic discussion on the meanings of "guess" vs. "idea" vs. "theory".

I've said before that my own experience with the HR20 has been positive, nowhere near as bad as yours or others. You're right that I'm guessing, based on what I'm reading here. I figure that maybe my opinions, combined with those of others, will help shape a proper theory which hopefully the programmers will read or someone like Earl will pass on.

I believe you and I agree that the HR20 should easily accommodate most levels of usage and most combinations of button pushes and searches. I think we also agree that it doesn't. What do you think is the reason?
 

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lamontcranston said:
I don't think your post was meant to start a semantic discussion on the meanings of "guess" vs. "idea" vs. "theory".

I've said before that my own experience with the HR20 has been positive, nowhere near as bad as yours or others. You're right that I'm guessing, based on what I'm reading here. I figure that maybe my opinions, combined with those of others, will help shape a proper theory which hopefully the programmers will read or someone like Earl will pass on.

I believe you and I agree that the HR20 should easily accommodate most levels of usage and most combinations of button pushes and searches. I think we also agree that it doesn't. What do you think is the reason?
Well said.. Just saying it is "a piece of crap" doesn't help fix it... I wish they would make a way of sending setup, record list, and the problem that happend to D* as a "package" (use for ethernet?) maybe this would help identify patterns that would help fix it..
 

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lamontcranston said:
What do you think is the reason?
Poor QA process and flawed software designs, tied into a marketing group pushing to get a product out because of external market pressure, all probably linked to a bonus plan that required the product to ship by a date for the management team to get a pay out. But I am just cynical enough to believe that kind of thing because I have worked as an high tech executive in the valley.
 

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btmoore said:
Poor QA process and flawed software designs, tied into a marketing group pushing to get a product out because of external market pressure, all probably linked to a bonus plan that required the product to ship by a date for the management team to get a pay out. But I am just cynical enough to believe that kind of thing because I have worked as an high tech executive in the valley.
You're probably right about that too. I wouldn't be at all surprised if that were true, but I ask you as a former (and possibly current) high tech executive, what, according to your observations, are the behaviors, either in the user or the software, which are most likely to trigger problems?

/ENTER SARCASM MODE/
It's also possible that problems with the HR20 are due to its amazing psionic ability to detect the number of times its user posts requests for OTA, Dual buffers, or compares the unit unfavorably to one's old DirecTivo. The more the user does this, the more likely the HR20 is to wig out. Certain "spite" routines and "good taste buffers" also appear to be attempting to help users record only what the programmers considered "worthwhile" programming.
/EXIT SARCASM MODE/
 
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