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Lifetime Achiever
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uncrph90 said:
Kool-Aid, Get your Kool-Aid Here!!

All hail our beloved leader--Earl!

I have one question--do we get T-shirts or membership cards in our new club-err-cult?
I don't want to be the leader... they always blame the leader.... :)

If you want some Illini Kool-Aid (they where "that" close... only 5 minute earlier.... dang)... or some Bears Kool-Aid... I have a fridge full..

Othere then that... I need to make a new batch.
 

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Legend
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193 Posts
personally.. I really wish all of us would remember.. this is a piece of equipment NO matter.. how much we want it.. how all of the steps so many of you have taken to get it.. the hours on hours ranting, raving or even asking nicely to speak to "retention" to get this receiver & then all the posts regarding how badly things went to get it installed & then all the post about it now.. which actually is distressing to see "EQUUIPMENT" can cause all of us "awesome DTV customers" to seemingly behave so badly to each other..

why?? I don't know.. I know all of u are great people but this is just a "man made box of electronics" which is not full proof, not perfect & who knows if it will be..

would it be possible for all of us to enjoy knowing there is a possiblity of its greatness & be a little tolerant of some of the issues & then be happy if some of them aren't problematic??
 

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The Shadow Knows!
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37,060 Posts
surfbird said:
personally.. I really wish all of us would remember.. this is a piece of equipment NO matter.. how much we want it.. how all of the steps so many of you have taken to get it.. the hours on hours ranting, raving or even asking nicely to speak to "retention" to get this receiver & then all the posts regarding how badly things went to get it installed & then all the post about it now.. which actually is distressing to see "EQUUIPMENT" can cause all of us "awesome DTV customers" to seemingly behave so badly to each other..

why?? I don't know.. I know all of u are great people but this is just a "man made box of electronics" which is not full proof, not perfect & who knows if it will be..

would it be possible for all of us to enjoy knowing there is a possiblity of its greatness & be a little tolerant of some of the issues & then be happy if some of them aren't problematic??
Well said.
 

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Hall Of Fame
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lamontcranston said:
... according to your observations, are the behaviors, either in the user or the software, which are most likely to trigger problems?
That is the great mystery,

Take the following bugs that I have experienced:

Unwatchable ~ 6 times
Partial ~ 8 times
771 - 2 times
full and partial interface lockups - 3 times
Dolby Digital off to be on bug - currently happening

Honestly there appears to be no rhyme or reason for it.

Most of these bugs I experience at the frequency I experience are perhaps because I may use my DVR more than others. That meaning I have 47 passes set up for example. I think it is highly likely that you have the exact same defects that I do, but you just haven't tripped on the use case that presents them. So if we assume all boxes are equal, the person using it more is likely to be more exposed to the defects. There may be other things that have to do with the way the software is architected, this is clearly demonstrated by the Dolby bug, while that defect is minor because of the work around it does provide some insight to how the software might be architected, and that is concerning, but to make those kind of assumptions we might as well be counting how many angles can dance on the head of a pin. Lastly it is a question of user expectations in combination with the frequency of issues. Many hear have made it clear that there expectations are low, that they don't have an issues with the box missing a recording or so and a couple of lockups in the past 2 weeks it not such a bad thing, others like myself, think that this is not an acceptable situation for a consumer devices. All that adds up to the rub.
 

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The Shadow Knows!
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37,060 Posts
It's been suggested several times that the next update include some sort of error log dumping back to D*, whether via phone line or ethernet. That sounds like an excellent idea to me, so long as it was optional AND required opt-in, not opt-out. Without putting words into anyone's mouth it seems that many of us would feel better if we could help solve the problems instead of just ranting about them.
 

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I used to be a rocket scientist
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12,182 Posts
Many hear have made it clear that there expectations are low, that they don't have an issues with the box missing a recording or so and a couple of lockups in the past 2 weeks it not such a bad thing, others like myself, think that this is not an acceptable situation for a consumer devices.
That's not an either/or situation, you know. It's quite possible for someone to say that it's not an acceptable situation to miss recordings yet missing one or two or having a lockup is not a big deal to them personally for whatever reason (they're not big TV watchers and they just got the HR20 because it's a neat new gadget, they're making backup recordings with a different device or service, etc). In other words, situations don't have to be as extreme as they might be perceived here on an internet forum.

Another reality might be that some of us DON'T have low expectations and we are STILL not disappointed or upset at the current state of affairs. Our HR20 hasn't missed a recording, hasn't locked up and aside from some trick-play glitches has been problem free in both MPEG4 and MPEG2 recording and playback.

That there ARE some relatively problem-free boxes is probably more vexing to the software designers than anything, especially if there is ANY possibility that the problems might be connected to some tiny piece of marginally-designed hardware that is running closer to its limits than first expected, or some component that is having a larger-than-expected failure rate in service or any other possibility D* will never confirm or deny. Glitchy hardware is damned difficult to design software around and that's something they have to consider, along with all the other possibilities.
 

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Godfather
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260 Posts
btmoore said:
Poor QA process and flawed software designs, tied into a marketing group pushing to get a product out because of external market pressure, all probably linked to a bonus plan that required the product to ship by a date for the management team to get a pay out. But I am just cynical enough to believe that kind of thing because I have worked as an high tech executive in the valley.
That seems to be SOP for all companies in all fields anymore, nothing exclusive to D* or software companies. The verbage may be different but it afflicts all of us.
 

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797 Posts
This is a tough one. Some people have lots of problems, some not as many, and some are experiencing their issues at non critical times while others still have no tolerance to any of it.

So, someone with a positive outlok can be turned into a defender or apologist simply because they get tired of seeing things like It's a POS! or That's what you get with an HR20 etc.

The sarcasm is met with defense on both sides. I hope it doesn't become a fanboy situation like we have over at TC. it makes it tough when you really like something but it's not perfect. Sometimes these threads force you to be on the POS side or the no problems side, when the truth for all of us is in the middle.

Xaa
 

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Cool Member
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I would agree this forum has it's share of HR20 defenders and those who are fed up with it... Personally, I believe D* should not have released this box without working out more of the bugs - so when someone posts a negative experience I don't mind - after all we are paying >$50/month for D* service and that service should work with the H20 as well as it has with their other hardware. Having said that, I also don't mind when someone responds that they have no problems - it helps quantify the anomalies.

I think it's unfortunate that some feel the need to bash users who post their negative experiences. IMHO, if you box is flawless, good for you, start a thread and let everyone comment on it. If someone posts their negative experiences, try to real in the urge to call them whiny or mislead - it brings no value to the topic.

As to this being a cult... I am very grateful to Earl's for his contributions to the forum. He tries (and succeeds for the most part) in giving an objective viewpoint with lots of valuable 'intelligence' we would not usually have access to. But some of you who shall go unnamed have clearly crossed the line and defined yourselves as sycophants. I would like to sincerely thank Earl for his time, patience, and effort, but he's no deity and his 'opinions' are as good as/no better then anyone else's'.

For my part, I have had my share of issues with the HR20 (I'm on my 3rd). I've very pleased with D* releasing so many firmware upgrades, it shows they're working on the problems - sometimes we've gone back a step, but ever since the 0xE3 upgrade my box has been much more stable (I've still had to reboot twice and missed two shows since, but that's a huge improvement). I think the majority of my issues are related to MPEG4 signals now. And I would 'like' to think that those of us who have posted their experiences here have contributed to quantifying the problems and assisted D* with making improvements.
 

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dark0ps said:
I would agree this forum has it's share of HR20 defenders and those who are fed up with it... Personally, I believe D* should not have released this box without working out more of the bugs - so when someone posts a negative experience I don't mind - after all we are paying >$50/month for D* service and that service should work with the H20 as well as it has with their other hardware. Having said that, I also don't mind when someone responds that they have no problems - it helps quantify the anomalies.

I think it's unfortunate that some feel the need to bash users who post their negative experiences. IMHO, if you box is flawless, good for you, start a thread and let everyone comment on it. If someone posts their negative experiences, try to real in the urge to call them whiny or mislead - it brings no value to the topic.

As to this being a cult... I am very grateful to Earl's for his contributions to the forum. He tries (and succeeds for the most part) in giving an objective viewpoint with lots of valuable 'intelligence' we would not usually have access to. But some of you who shall go unnamed have clearly crossed the line and defined yourselves as sycophants. I would like to sincerely thank Earl for his time, patience, and effort, but he's no deity and his 'opinions' are as good as/no better then anyone else's'.

For my part, I have had my share of issues with the HR20 (I'm on my 3rd). I've very pleased with D* releasing so many firmware upgrades, it shows they're working on the problems - sometimes we've gone back a step, but ever since the 0xE3 upgrade my box has been much more stable (I've still had to reboot twice and missed two shows since, but that's a huge improvement). I think the majority of my issues are related to MPEG4 signals now. And I would 'like' to think that those of us who have posted their experiences here have contributed to quantifying the problems and assisted D* with making improvements.
Nice post. Is anyone getting weary of the HR20 topic in general? I don't mean forgetting/dismissing the frustration the box has caused. But just the thing itself. I've purchased so many things over the years, and never have I spent so much time and energy on a piece of gear. I think I am officially tuckered out. Of course, since I moved to component, my problems seem to have disappeared (though I know they lurk in the HR20s innards. I'm especially nervous about the next download, now that mine seems to be working by bypassing HDMI).

Anyway, I know I have a rep for being testy around these parts, but most of my frustration/hostility has been directly pointed at those who dark0ps mentions...The "mine works great, you loser" crowd. Can't wait for this box to take its place with my other gear, just work and not have to even think about it. D* has really put some people through the wringer here, is all I can say. Read the piece on the USA Today site about customer service. It will really resonate with some people here. At least we have retention to call, even if they can't fix the HR20.

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/2006-11-05-tech-support_x.htm?csp=15
 

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At this point I think this has become group therapy. Your own problems don't seem so bad when you hear about others.

It's a great place to vent and at the same time help others with the their issues.
 

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DBSTalk Club Member
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102 Posts
As a consumate early adopter, I am thoroughly enjoying the opportunity to make this product better. I have only had a few problems with my unit and I believe that after some of these minor glitches are worked out, this will be a unit that has tremendous opportunity for future expansion & capabilities.
I was also an early adopter for TIVO, but in my opinion, this unit is faster, and has more promise. I have a series 1 and series 2 tivo now and their interfaces were way too SLOW.
So, if this makes me a cultist, I am proud to say that I am a member of....

THE CULT OF THE EMERGING HR20!

Bill
 

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soccercoach61 said:
Does this forum have an "ignore user" feature?
Well, let's just say we have methods of knowing who is who. :) We don't catch everyone, but when we do the hammer falls pretty quickly. Usually those who slip by our security reveal their true nature sooner or later. ;)

Earl does an excellent job and spends countless hours answering questions not just here but on other forums. We owe him the courtesy to act like adults.
 

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Large Hairless ApeCutting Edge: ECHELON '08
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Chris Blount said:
Well, let's just say we have methods of knowing who is who. :) We don't catch everyone, but when we do the hammer falls pretty quickly. Usually those who slip by our security reveal their true nature sooner or later. ;)
As some of you know I own ComicBoards.com and TVShowBoards.com. We have message boards and don't require registration, but we are able to ban people. It IS possible to break through the ban and once I got an email from someone saying "HA! You banned me 3 months ago and I've been posting ever since!" I replied "HA! You didn't make it noticable which means you're finally posting under the rules and being a good poster! I win!" ;)
 

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I thank you all for the comments you had...

But, they are not really necessary in the public forum. So I delete them.
 
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